You just said it's a potential problem. That's the whole point. It shouldn't be a potential problem when nobody in the party is doing anything wrong, because if it is than you have no tools left to use when people are actually doing things wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynlar
Those shouldn't be role actions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynlar
RDM's Patch Notes?
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08-02-2019, 05:54 AMSendohJin
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08-02-2019, 05:54 AMKatie_Kitty
Please stop feeding the troll.
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08-02-2019, 05:59 AMFynlarWhat I meant was that it's a potential problem if you were flaking like I was and forgetting to use Lucid. But since you should actually be using Lucid, that's why I was chalking that up to user error and not actually an inherent problem of the class.Quote:
It shouldn't be a potential problem when nobody in the party is doing anything wrong, because if it is than you have no tools left to use when people are actually doing things wrong.
Why? What difference does it make what "kind" of actions they are? They're part of the kit regardless, and some role actions are just going to more useful to some of the classes that have them compared to others.Quote:
Those shouldn't be role actions.
To use a similar example, Low Blow is less useful to a PLD than to any other tank because PLD already has an innate action that does a stun (a repeatable one, at that). That's not to say Low Blow still isn't useful to PLD, because it's an ogcd, but it is objectively less useful to PLD compared to the other tanks because it provides less utility. The other tanks must use Low Blow if they want to be able to stun at all.
I seriously don't get why people are coming up with these sorts of "Just Because" reasons for why things should or shouldn't be a certain way. -
08-02-2019, 06:02 AMXatsh
You are basically 1 of 2 things atm. Since you claim you never run out of mp.
1) A troll, Which I am assuming is the case in this thread
2) A horrible rdm who cannot keep up a rotation / a horrible rdm that tunnel visions and only dps in their group.
Trust me you are not some magic person who can do what 99.999% of the rdms who do upper endgame cannot do. Someone who can do things that the hard math proves as impossible.
To state a fact. Prior to the patch rdms ran out of mp when performing their job optimally in content that exceeded 8ish mins. If you disagree that is ok, being wrong is not the end of the world. Problem is continuing to believe yourself when you are wrong is well about the same as ppl who believe this world is flat and kick and scream when anyone proves them wrong.
With that I am done feeding the troll. Last post in this pointless thread. -
08-02-2019, 06:02 AMSendohJinQuote:
Originally Posted by Fynlar
why do you do it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynlar
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08-02-2019, 06:09 AMFynlarTwo swings and two misses. Wanna go for the strikeout?Quote:
You are basically 1 of 2 things atm. Since you claim you never run out of mp.
1) A troll, Which I am assuming is the case in this thread
2) A horrible rdm who cannot keep up a rotation / a horrible rdm that tunnel visions and only dps in their group.
I advise heeding your own advice.Quote:
To state a fact. Prior to the patch rdms ran out of mp when performing their job optimally in content that exceeded 8ish mins. If you disagree that is ok, being wrong is not the end of the world.
Lucid has literally one purpose now since they tweaked it in SB2. You tell me.Quote:
why do you do it?
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08-02-2019, 06:19 AMSendohJinJust because it only restores MP is not reason enough that it has to be used on cooldown. you claiming it has to be used on cooldown is just another "Just Because" reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynlar
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08-02-2019, 06:20 AMArdoxSo now you want us to make assumptions now? Now is the time? Because it wasn't earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynlar
No seriously, why ought we use it on cooldown? -
08-02-2019, 06:28 AMFynlarI don't really care if you use it on cooldown or not. But because RDM, according to seemingly most people, has crippling MP issues, you might find it useful if you used an ability solely designed to give you MP as often as you could. And if you aren't, you're probably not in the best position to be speaking/complaining about said crippling MP issues.Quote:
Just because it only restores MP is not reason enough that it has to be used on cooldown. you claiming it has to be used on cooldown is just another "Just Because" reason.
out of posts, lalala
Well I mean, as long as you aren't letting your MP get back up to full with it, you weren't ever "wasting" Lucid. Hanging on to it until your MP already got low is a prime example of not using it as ideally as you could be. Same deal with melees who didn't use Invigorate until their TP already bottomed out.Quote:
HAD not has, that's why they changed it. and yes, i did use it. but i found it to be a problem because when people died i had nothing else to use for MP because i already used the only thing that existed.
If you really feel like playing the res mage (and you know beforehand that it will be needed), it's sometimes best to not even engage the enemy until the end to get credit (assuming you have a party to work on getting the gold rating for you), simply so your MP regenerates a ton faster from not being in combat. I did this all the time in Eureka, mainly against Pazuzu (I never really went into the later zones)Quote:
oh and you know where i found this to be the biggest problem before they patched it? S Ranks and World FATEs, people die a lot.
Sigh, because like I've said over and over in this topic, the times I've had MP problems were when I've forgotten to use Lucid at all; in other words, not using Lucid optimally. Also, based on the comments I've been seeing in this thread (such as how we shouldn't "have" to use Lucid as often as we can), that indicates to me that people aren't using it as often as they can. How often will you make me repeat this before it sinks in for you? Having to go back and edit posts is a real drag, you know.Quote:
Why do you assume he was wasting LD or not using optimally?
That's not always been true, particularly before SB. Already mentioned it in this topic, but I've ran out of TP many times on NIN and PLD (the two melee classes I actually played the most), even when not AoEing on NIN (and PLD had no AoE yet).Quote:
Also, your Invigorate example is as super bad because you would need Invigorate only during AoE rotation
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08-02-2019, 06:33 AMSendohJinHAD not has, that's why they changed it. and yes, i did use it. but i found it to be a problem because when people died i had nothing else to use for MP because i already used the only thing that existed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynlar
this is why the changes are welcome and necessary.
oh and you know where i found this to be the biggest problem before they patched it? S Ranks and World FATEs, people die a lot. -
08-02-2019, 07:18 AMArdoxQuote:
Originally Posted by Fynlar
Why do you assume he was wasting LD or not using optimally? What doesn't get through at the moment is you would have need more than 100% LD uptime. Also, your Invigorate example is as super bad because you would need Invigorate only during AoE rotation and it that case it still wasn't enough to sustain the rotation indefinitely. -
08-02-2019, 09:49 AMErryKYou really don't get it do you? RDM would be at an MP deficit even after using Lucid Dreaming, you're always meant to come out with a surplus of MP after Lucid, not a deficit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynlar
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08-02-2019, 11:41 AMFynlarAgain with the "meant to" statements, as if you were to know those sorts of things without being one of the developers yourself.Quote:
You really don't get it do you? RDM would be at an MP deficit even after using Lucid Dreaming, you're always meant to come out with a surplus of MP after Lucid, not a deficit.
But apparently, I'm the one who doesn't get it. Okay. :rolleyes: -
08-02-2019, 12:57 PMAtmaweapon510
Doesn't the fact that they reduced RDM MP costs across the board already prove their point?
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08-02-2019, 04:00 PMTankHunter678
RDM got the mana cost changes to its ST rotation because the math stated it bluntly: with perfect 100% uptime of LD the standard rotation had a maximum time limit of 15 minutes. Each Verraise ate 4 minutes of that time limit, making any situation where the RDM needs to use Verraise anymore then once results in the RDM bottoming out and becoming useless, any fight that would last longer then 11 minutes (like E4) would result in the RDM bottoming out and becoming useless if even one Verraise was used. If the RDM died they became useless. Regardless of skill level this is what the math said. Personal experience did not matter, this is what the math and the logs stated.
So SE listened to the RDMs who complained and were throwing out ideas on how to fix this issue (such as suggesting throwing in a verwater or verblizzard spell that would leech MP, or putting a MP leech on the melee combo), ran the math themselves, and opted to reduce the mana costs of the ST rotation to compensate as a quick fix. They also made reprise useful as a ranged attack for when you are forced into constant movement due to mechanics like the ones in E4 or E1.
Now it takes a really stupid team that is somehow not wiping but still dying a lot to bottom out a RDM -
08-02-2019, 08:22 PMErryK???Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynlar
It's basic maths... did you not pass that in elementary school or... ? -
08-02-2019, 08:41 PMFynlarNo, it says that they agree with the common perception that RDM MP expenditure is too much. It still says nothing about what you're "supposed" to be doing with Lucid.Quote:
Doesn't the fact that they reduced RDM MP costs across the board already prove their point?
Lucid has the sole purpose of restoring MP, so if you need MP, you use it. If you don't need it, you don't. Any arguments over whether you "should" have to use it or not are irrelevant.
Which is more than good enough for any fight in the game. Any fight that lasts longer than this either has forced downtime/recovery periods (hell, most fights that don't last that long still have them), or has severe enough other problems as it is with the party in question.Quote:
RDM got the mana cost changes to its ST rotation because the math stated it bluntly: with perfect 100% uptime of LD the standard rotation had a maximum time limit of 15 minutes.
Personal experience does matter, though. Do you think I'm going to be all like "well, I should be out of MP right now according to The Math, even though I'm not, so maybe I'll just stop casting so as not to break the rules of The Math"?Quote:
Regardless of skill level this is what the math said. Personal experience did not matter, this is what the math and the logs stated.
Are you able to make a post without an irrelevant ad hominem, or...?Quote:
It's basic maths... did you not pass that in elementary school or... ?
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08-03-2019, 05:10 AMErryKLol, so this is what its come to, huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynlar
Also, saying math is irrelevant in a game full of numbers. We stan clowns. -
08-03-2019, 07:02 AMTankHunter678If you hit that time point in a fight and were not out of mana then you were either A) Not playing the class optimally or B) Were in a fight where you were forced to move so much, or the boss left for an extended amount of time with no adds deployed, you gained some seconds on your timer by virtue of the fact you cease casting entirely so you can actually regen some mana.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynlar
Again personal experience does not matter. Opinions does not matter. If you were doing everything right and always performing your rotation 100% perfect you ran out of MP after 15 minutes. 11 minutes if you used 1 verraise, 7 minutes if you used 2 verraise, 3 minutes if you used 3 verraise. If you died you ran on fumes reduced to using the unenchanted melee combo while you tried to regen mana for some spell casts. That was the straight undeniable result of the math that people even tested in game and found to be correct.
It would have been a "fine" time limit if RDM did not have verraise or vercure. However because RDM had those as its utility it was expected to need to use those. Which meant ideally you did not want any fight a RDM participated in to be longer then 7 minutes assuming deaths happen but it still gets cleared within that amount of time. In other words, you did not want RDM in any current trial fight or raid unless everyone had already mastered it because the rDPS loss from RDM casting verraise or dying once was too harsh. At which point you do not bring RDM at all. RDM is the "progression" caster, once the fight has been mastered you swap to a high DPS caster like BLM for clear speed because you wont need any of the utilities that RDM brought which means RDM was broken and non viable.
Ergo RDM got buffed to be viable instead of broken. Now it does not have MP troubles outside of excessively stupid parties. -
08-03-2019, 09:12 AMFynlarMany, many fights in the game fall under group B.Quote:
If you hit that time point in a fight and were not out of mana then you were either A) Not playing the class optimally or B) Were in a fight where you were forced to move so much, or the boss left for an extended amount of time with no adds deployed,
Again, I know I was playing RDM "properly", so you all can stop with those sorts of insinuations. It isn't a hard class to play.