Disappointed in the turn the Garlean Empire has taken

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Yeah, I doubt it's was entirely misdirection (though the whole amazing surprise reveal of the trip to the First Shard was NOT handled well, in my opinion). It's absurd to think that the Garleans are going to twiddle their thumbs for an entire expansion, when the final patch of this expansion left their war machine scratching at the very gates of Ala Mhigo.

However, if they ARE going to put an end to the Garlean Empire this expansion, when (apparently) every zone is on the First Shard, it suggests that the Garlean resolution is going to be a B-plot to the First Shard's A-plot, and that doesn't sit well with me at all.

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This is obviously just my own opinion, but I don't think we're going to permanently deal with Garlemald in this expansion. I'm guessing there will be some Garlean Shenanigans as a B-Plot to keep tension high and remind us that Garlemald is still a threat we need to deal with. I think it'll all be set-up for the next expansion, which will probably take place in Garlemald proper. Like, come on. We're not taking care of the Garlean leadership (likely installing a new character or Maxima as leader) without even getting to see Garlemald.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

From what I understand, its not as if the actual names are on the files, but they have somesort of identifier for 'zone name' and 'region' like say ZN1_REG.file and that all of the new zone files have the same (REG).

Of course this understanding could be fundamentally flawed.

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This is pretty close to what is going on. Each region has a letter associated with it in the identifier for the "zone name" and the identifiers for the new zones are added to the game months in advance of the actual expansion.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

It's absurd to think that the Garleans are going to twiddle their thumbs for an entire expansion, when the final patch of this expansion left their war machine scratching at the very gates of Ala Mhigo.

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To be fair, there's actually a possibility that in essence, they will.

I mean, if (When) Varis deploys Black Rose... What if something happens that makes the entire Garlean Empire go super political?

Like, if it backfires or something and wipes out a large portion of the Imperial Army by mistake... I'm sure there would be more Garleans that were of the same mindset as Gaius and didn't condone the usage of such chemical weapons - If this flared up, in addition to the whole "Zenos (Varis' son) is possessed by a demon" AND the machinations surrounding Yotsuyu summoning a Primal at the behest of an Imperial... Then maybe the Garleans might be too busy with internal conflict to continue on the warpath towards Ala Mhigo.

I mean, throw in the Shinobi whispering rumours about the Solus being an Ascian (Thus throwing Varis' legitimacy for the throne into question) as well as the plans for both Solus and Varis (Being rejoining of all the shards thus destroying the Source to create the new world/awaken Zodiark) as well as Zenos himself showing up and demanding his body back (Thus providing proof of the whole Zenos is possessed by a demon thing)...

It could start a Garlean Civil War. Which would effectively neuter any possibility of them creating any actual attacks against other nations as they'd be fighting themselves. Which could end up being the set up plot for 6.0 and us going to Garlemald to take out Varis, Elidibus and Solus (If we don't deal with him on the First) whilst also allowing us to actually have allies for side quests there that are Imperials whom don't actively want to fight us because we'd have the same goal of taking out Varis and co...

But we'll see. It's quite possible that the Garlean resolution won't occur in 5.0 and instead will be set up for 6.0 (Kind of like how HW kind of put the Garleans on the backburner for the most part with then SB coming and progressing things).

So we can always hope that they won't just try and shoehorn in 2 plot conclusions (Like they did with SB...) as well as give us some sort of meaningful thing to logically do post First (Since as it stands, if the Garlean plot resolves while we spend the entire expac on the First... Then when we return to the Source for 6.0, what next? Do we start just travelling to all the other Shards now we've "Thrown wide the gates"?)

It will be rather anti-climatic if 5.0 ends with "Garlean Empire still did nothing for the entire time we are gone" though.

That evil smile at the end of 4.X basically screams he just gave the go to immediately use it on that moment thus I expect by the time we get back near the ending of 5.0 that we get word in our absence a lot of people died because we were not there to be the Hero/Heroine they needed.

I will not be surprised if they some how end up making Garlemald the final Story Dungeon of 5.0 because some big plot twist after we save the 1st reveals that was not the ending and the True Final Boss for 5.0 is about WoL going back to fight in a Story Dungeon set in Garlemald to unlock a Trial at what remains in the Garlemald Palace due to the war waging on while we are in the 1st shard as a resulting by the Alliance pushing the war effort all the way into the Capital City of Garlean Empire in our absence.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

It will be rather anti-climatic if 5.0 ends with "Garlean Empire still did nothing for the entire time we are gone" though.

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They're already ending Stormblood with a convenient stalemate, don't get your hopes up.

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Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

They're already ending Stormblood with a convenient stalemate, don't get your hopes up.

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That evil smile at the ending say other wise....

Maybe Im misinterpreting the MSQ, but my understanding was that the Ascians helped Solus with forbidden knowledge at first, and now that one ascian is pretty much wearing the body of Solus as a suit for his own needs.

Meaning the Garleans, who were a people who pretty much got stomped all over from everyone who could use magic, were looking for help with their plight. The ascians step in and provide the knowledge necessary to militarize (which the garleans do), and go on a revenge campaign. Once solus finally dies, though, the ascian takes over his clones(?) because they provide a suitable vessel for him (ascians cant walk around on their own, from what I understand. They need to possess a body). I chalked up the whole cloning thing as a means to prolong Solus's life so he can keep doing solus things.

When the ascians said they build the empire from scratch, I took it more as they were behind the scenes pulling some of the strings, but Solus and the others were not fully aware of this or at least the bigger picture.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Maybe Im misinterpreting the MSQ, but my understanding was that the Ascians helped Solus with forbidden knowledge at first, and now that one ascian is pretty much wearing the body of Solus as a suit for his own needs.

Meaning the Garleans, who were a people who pretty much got stomped all over from everyone who could use magic, were looking for help with their plight. The ascians step in and provide the knowledge necessary to militarize (which the garleans do), and go on a revenge campaign. Once solus finally dies, though, the ascian takes over his clones(?) because they provide a suitable vessel for him (ascians cant walk around on their own, from what I understand. They need to possess a body). I chalked up the whole cloning thing as a means to prolong Solus's life so he can keep doing solus things.

When the ascians said they build the empire from scratch, I took it more as they were behind the scenes pulling some of the strings, but Solus and the others were not fully aware of this or at least the bigger picture.

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I mean, Solus outright says "The founding father was an Ascian!" Whether that means Solus was always an Ascian, or was a mortal man inducted into their ranks, is ambiguous, but it's clear that in the English localization at least, the Ascians are actively involved in the Garlean Empire from the beginning.

I wonder if Solus being an ascian has anything to do with how Gaius and Lahabreah began their alliance. I'm rather curious what the story is or if it's just 'hey Gaius I'll help you dig up an ultiamte weapon you can use to conquor Eorzea.'

Anyone remember Vegas fanfast?

https://www.finalfantasyforums.net/a.../sb5-png.6759/

It would be really strange to give us that and then take it away.

Imho, it's already really strange that they opened with, "It's time, once and for all, to take down the Garlean Empire!" and then showed us 0 zones of Garlean territory and mentioned Ilsabard precisely 0 times, lol. Then again we just had a whole Ala Mhigan expansion where we never actually went to Ala Mhigo and experienced very little of their culture beyond the impoverished fringes and refugees.

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Originally Posted by Rosa_Frandlia

Anyone remember Vegas fanfast?

https://www.finalfantasyforums.net/a.../sb5-png.6759/

It would be really strange to give us that and then take it away.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Imho, it's already really strange that they opened with, "It's time, once and for all, to take down the Garlean Empire!" and then showed us 0 zones of Garlean territory and mentioned Ilsabard precisely 0 times, lol. Then again we just had a whole Ala Mhigan expansion where we never actually went to Ala Mhigo and experienced very little of their culture beyond the impoverished fringes and refugees.

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It is why I think garlemald is going to be the final half or last 20% of the 5.0 Main Storyline.

Yes, we can assume majority of the storyline is in the 1st Shard but they built up this whole "finally defeat Garlean Empire" with the 1st Shard Storyline so it would be rather strange if nothing happened while we are in the 1st shard.

Even if it is only for Storyline Dungeons only in 5.0, it will still allow Garlemald to be part of 6.0 story but in a different note from what people expect being focus more on the change in Garlemald after the defeat of the Garlean Empire in 5.0.

I think there's two approaches (at least, but maybe more) to the Garlean problem.

- Solus. We assume this is what we are going to be dealing with in 5.0, because he went to the First too (I believe that he says something about the disbalance of light is a fertile ground for the use of Black Rose on the Source, so he might want to push that on the First to strenghthen it on the Source). Whatever we do on the First would be a way to weaken Garlemald on the Source. (Here, add everything Ascian related, Elidibus, Elezenos to some degree).
HOWEVER
- Varis, since 4.4 he seems to be getting more and more unstable. Fed up with Solus, Ascian meddling (I'm not sure he was happy to see his son's body possessed by Elidibus). Plus his ideal of prime humans we saw in the parley. He's something to watch over because if we manage to wreck Solus' plans on the First, it's not given that the situation will be solved definitely. There's also the whole Populares plotline, the rumours spread to shake the Empire from the inside.

Remember that "while we do our things on the First" can be a matter of days in the game's timeline, this can fit into the Status Quo context on Ghimlyt.

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Originally Posted by RenewalXVII

I mean, Solus outright says "The founding father was an Ascian!" Whether that means Solus was always an Ascian, or was a mortal man inducted into their ranks, is ambiguous, but it's clear that in the English localization at least, the Ascians are actively involved in the Garlean Empire from the beginning.

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He also says that he's grateful for the cloned bodies specifically because, while he can use any host and mold it 'into his own image', having bodies that are already specced out in that image is way, way more convenient, so I'm fairly strongly disinclined to feel like he was just a sockpuppet. I'm with Renewal that he's either always been an Ascian, or was mortal and became one.

Which fanfest was the 'take down the garlean empire' card from again? It could have been a misdirection since they didn't want to spoil what we're doing in SHB.

While we 'could' pivit towards fighting them, we know 5 zones are on the first and suddenly going there for a sixth zone could end up being very jarring and rushed if we actually managed to take the empire down in that time. Though I do think the empire will be involved in the story to some degree, perhaps even coming after us tot he First or something somehow. But I don't think we'll actually be going there in 5.0 or its patches.

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Originally Posted by Mansion

I think there's two approaches (at least, but maybe more) to the Garlean problem.

- Solus. We assume this is what we are going to be dealing with in 5.0, because he went to the First too (I believe that he says something about the disbalance of light is a fertile ground for the use of Black Rose on the Source, so he might want to push that on the First to strenghthen it on the Source). Whatever we do on the First would be a way to weaken Garlemald on the Source. (Here, add everything Ascian related, Elidibus, Elezenos to some degree).
HOWEVER
- Varis, since 4.4 he seems to be getting more and more unstable. Fed up with Solus, Ascian meddling (I'm not sure he was happy to see his son's body possessed by Elidibus). Plus his ideal of prime humans we saw in the parley. He's something to watch over because if we manage to wreck Solus' plans on the First, it's not given that the situation will be solved definitely. There's also the whole Populares plotline, the rumours spread to shake the Empire from the inside.

Remember that "while we do our things on the First" can be a matter of days in the game's timeline, this can fit into the Status Quo context on Ghimlyt.

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Personally I think Solus is possessing Varis right now, probably tired of Varis dragging his heels with the war. I could end up being wrong in 5.0 but that grin and the black background leads me to believe this, as well as Elidibus not knowing where Solus is and what he's doing makes me think this is something Solus recently decided to do.

I could be wrong though, but that's my take on that scene.

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Originally Posted by Mansion

Remember that "while we do our things on the First" can be a matter of days in the game's timeline, this can fit into the Status Quo context on Ghimlyt.

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I think the amount of time in the 1st may actually be within months instead of days.

We have to consider the actual travel time of going to place by foot and the length a ship would take to reach certain areas because we do not have access to their Teleport Crystal yet. Not to mention the moments when our character actually has to rest for a day due to story reasons.

That should be enough time for actual events happening in our absense rather than returning to "Oh hi! Nothing has changed since you were gone except for some minor things that has no effect on the Plot."

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

I think the amount of time in the 1st may actually be within months instead of days.

We have to consider the actual travel time of going to place by foot and the length a ship would take to reach certain areas because we do not have access to their Teleport Crystal yet. Not to mention the moments when our character actually has to rest for a day due to story reasons.

That should be enough time for actual events happening in our absense rather than returning to "Oh hi! Nothing has changed since you were gone except for some minor things that has no effect on the Plot."

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Maybe but the story has never really played up travel time before that I can recall. The doman reinforcements to Gyr Abania that explicitly had to travel by sea got there pretty quick in 4.5 for example.

It depends on how severely the Flood of Light is affecting the flow of time on the First (if at all).

As others have said, though, time doesn't seem to be a huge issue narrative-wise. We've gone through 3 major story arcs with mini-arcs sprinkled in there, yet the year hasn't advanced canonically. Best not to think about this too hard - everything happens when it happens, mmkay?

Considering all the time passing talk. I agree that things are gonna be happening while we are on the 1st Shard, only because of this line on the main Shadowbringers page:

"Ala Mhigo is at last free from imperial rule, but that liberty may prove fleeting as the Empire moves to both reclaim this bloodied nation and subjugate all of Eorzea.

In their hour of need, however, they cannot turn to the Warrior of Light. Nor to the Scions, who yet slumber, their souls adrift. The realm is left to struggle without its saviors, "

This gives the idea that while we are, in fact, over in the 1st, Garlemald is going to make a push and everyone in the Source is going to have to deal with it, without us.

After all, what better way to make use of the RP Mechanic (aka NPC control) that we already used a few times in Stormblood, as a means for us to keep a tabs on what is going on back home.

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Originally Posted by Koti

Considering all the time passing talk. I agree that things are gonna be happening while we are on the 1st Shard, only because of this line on the main Shadowbringers page:

"Ala Mhigo is at last free from imperial rule, but that liberty may prove fleeting as the Empire moves to both reclaim this bloodied nation and subjugate all of Eorzea.

In their hour of need, however, they cannot turn to the Warrior of Light. Nor to the Scions, who yet slumber, their souls adrift. The realm is left to struggle without its saviors, "

This gives the idea that while we are, in fact, over in the 1st, Garlemald is going to make a push and everyone in the Source is going to have to deal with it, without us.

After all, what better way to make use of the RP Mechanic (aka NPC control) that we already used a few times in Stormblood, as a means for us to keep a tabs on what is going on back home.

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This would be a good way to use them.

I wasn't much a fan of how some of them were used so far. We were right there with Y'shtola, and we were on the way with Hien, so they felt a little moot. But maybe these will be more interesting if they're battling on the Source while we're on the First. They just kind of bug me because they're caught in a sort of catch 22 with these quests.

Because they're one off quests they can't make full rotations that people need to memorize to get through one battle, but because they're so simple they can get boring fast.

I'm expecting multiple RP sessions as Elezen!Zenos, since from the sounds of it he's going to be the X factor keeping the Alliance on its feet during our absence (whether they know it or not).

So, not disappointed. fascist empire all tend to be like this, and Solus was raised by a totally twisted jerk and Garlian doctrine. It's basically why his logic is shaped like it is.