Gender Locks Have Revealed the Worst in Players.

Personally I've been having a blast.

Everyone seething about male vieras, meanwhile I'm only worried elves, drahns and galdjents will look better than elezens, au ra and roes since mystels and dwarves are already better than miqo'tes and lalas.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

After reading through a plethora of posts on this forum I have come to the following conclusion. We have one group who is clearly upset over the gender locks and has come to the forums to voice their opinion, and another group who appears complacent and seeks to shut down any dissent aka “white knighting.”

Let me say this. Glamour and races may not matter to you. Congrats. It matters to a lot of other people though and you don’t have the right to make them feel like trash. Attacks have been flung at people who wanted male Viera due to sexuality, masculinity/feminity, etc. These comments are vicious and have no place here. The true sexism and homophobia is coming from the people making these comments, along with whoever decided to go through with the gender locks.

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I wholeheartedly disagree, and I think this is a bit of an overreaction.

Firstly, there is no real sexuality argument for male Viera. There is plenty of variety with male races already: Lalafells are their own thing, Miqo'te and Hyurs are quite effeminate, Elezen and Au'ra are athletic builds, and Roegadyn are a brawny sort of look. Sexual balance for male characters dictates the next new race should mimic either Lalafells or Roegadyn, or take on an entirely new form. Certainly I can understand being upset if someone was keenly interested in the unique physical attributes of male Viera - the bunny ears - but the entire argument about masculinity / femininity is objectively flawed.

Incidentally, the stronger argument for masculinity / femininity would have been suggested Hrothgar should have been the only race, not Viera. Every concept sketch of Viera suggested females were going to end up being the same sort of delicate, fetishized sort of model that we already have represented in abundance. It's a little bit disingenuous to see people upset throwing out arguments about sexuality and masculinity / femininity while championing Viera over the Hrothgar.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

Also, me and many others have canceled our subscriptions over this gender lock. The people telling us to stay gone are a plague on this community and their complacency will only let more and more bad decisions to go by without positive and negative feedback. This forum is not only for saying “Yay I’m happy!” We have the right to voice our discontent on here too, and telling us to go and stay gone makes you look like a tremendously uncaring person.

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Bad decisions are subjective. Speaking personally, I'm quite frustrated that gameplay flaws and limitations go mostly ignored while new clip-heavy Glamours are pumped out by the truckload to cater to a certain segment of the customer base. I'm frustrated that a new male / female race combination was released instead of a new Healer. I'm frustrated that so many people cheerfully support the Mog Station, something I view as a monstrosity tantamount to SE-sanctioned RMT. I'm not one to say good riddance to someone canceling their subscription over the gender lock, but the general attention the developers have paid toward satisfying this group has, in my opinion, resulted in an inferior gameplay experience. I'm sure plenty of people who fall into this category feel similarly about gamers like me. So, there will always be frustrations, and people shouting each other down. Sometimes it's shameless white knighting, but other times it's coming from the fact that XIV's development path is something of a zero-sum game, and every group is fighting to be heard.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

Lastly, let’s discuss threats. Telling me that “natural selection should come for me” in response to my posts in the Gender Lock thread is not an acceptable way to argue pro-gender lock points. That comment was so extreme that I’m surprised the poster is not banned when I have been banned for less. That is the kind of homophobia and extremism that results in hate crimes in real life, and I demand that action be taken against such behavior now.

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Obviously I concur about threats. That said, I'd rather see the banhammers wielded less across the board. My boyfriend got perma-banned after a single warning for using a phrase which actually appears in FFXIV itself. There are countless stories about similarly unjustified bans on Reddit. So I'd ask for everyone to calm down, and not call for bans on each other, until SE realizes that permanent bans and strikes which never expire are a poor way to moderate a forum.

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Originally Posted by Kirsten_Rev

There are countless stories about similarly unjustified bans on Reddit. So I'd ask for everyone to calm down, and not call for bans on each other, until SE realizes that permanent bans and strikes which never expire are a poor way to moderate a forum.

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Sadly given the amount of years and increasing amount of users moving to external forums to discuss things without Mod's jumping in to remove people and lack of much activity from any admins on the NA side, I doubt that would ever come to happen sadly, it takes a massive outbreak to even get a MOD's attention, and I've seen threads w/ insanely heavy moderation required that despite reports no mod ever took action. I get the JP side has the majority of attention granted the community is far less toxic with each other too but its just pretty disheartening at times to be reminded how in the dark our side is.

Poorly moderated is an understatement, its barely moderated at all sadly. I agree with you 100% though, and have seen others banned for simple things as well simply on how things are worded. Lets not forget SE's new silent ban policies as of late where u don't even get information as to why you're banned, as well as being banned for simply using an emoji @ someone in game lol. Times are definitely changing.

+1 btw

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Originally Posted by Kirsten_Rev

I wholeheartedly disagree, and I think this is a bit of an overreaction.

Firstly, there is no real sexuality argument for male Viera. There is plenty of variety with male races already: Lalafells are their own thing, Miqo'te and Hyurs are quite effeminate, Elezen and Au'ra are athletic builds, and Roegadyn are a brawny sort of look. Sexual balance for male characters dictates the next new race should mimic either Lalafells or Roegadyn, or take on an entirely new form. Certainly I can understand being upset if someone was keenly interested in the unique physical attributes of male Viera - the bunny ears - but the entire argument about masculinity / femininity is objectively flawed.

Incidentally, the stronger argument for masculinity / femininity would have been suggested Hrothgar should have been the only race, not Viera. Every concept sketch of Viera suggested females were going to end up being the same sort of delicate, fetishized sort of model that we already have represented in abundance. It's a little bit disingenuous to see people upset throwing out arguments about sexuality and masculinity / femininity while championing Viera over the Hrothgar.


Bad decisions are subjective. Speaking personally, I'm quite frustrated that gameplay flaws and limitations go mostly ignored while new clip-heavy Glamours are pumped out by the truckload to cater to a certain segment of the customer base. I'm frustrated that a new male / female race combination was released instead of a new Healer. I'm frustrated that so many people cheerfully support the Mog Station, something I view as a monstrosity tantamount to SE-sanctioned RMT. I'm not one to say good riddance to someone canceling their subscription over the gender lock, but the general attention the developers have paid toward satisfying this group has, in my opinion, resulted in an inferior gameplay experience.

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This was really well put. Thank you.

Definitely love seeing people arguing over gender locks and fight for the rights of male viera (duh), while us lalas enjoy the privilege of entering lala-only houses.

You know what would be funny? If they give in to the cries and run to finish those character models before launch and it ends being the most half assed result ever in history of MMOs, making au ra clipping an aesthetic work of art in comparison.

Let's keep these suggestions and discussions civil. If people are unsubscribing over the gender-lock, they have every right to do so. Let them be. But also recognize that they also have the privilege to leave their feedback here to explain why they're ending their subscription.

The main point is, leave feedback over the issue and let's not resort to ad hominem responses to each other's arguments. And we'll see what the devs will do before, during, and after Shadowbringers.

As for me personally, I'm for the development and implementation of MALE Viera and FEMALE Hrothgars.

I'm also for the addition of a new healer: Oracle, Green Mage, Geomancer, Medic... there's a lot of Final Fantasy jobs to choose from.

As such, I suggest these additions to FFXIV. Thank you. :3

"Since it seems like Viera is popular around the world we have been proactively looking into this, but since having a rabbit male might be kind of weird, maybe we’ll look into having a separate race for the male counterpart."

These were Yoshi's own words. Source: https://www.siliconera.com/2013/02/2...jg8o6pCcXIo.99

Whether one cares about the genderlocks or not, let's make one thing clear: if anyone thinks that bunny girls are okay but that bunny guys are weird, they are practicing a toxic, sexist bias.

At this point it is what it is. Nothing we can do about getting genderlocked races for the time being. What we will do is call it what it is.

Sexist.

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Originally Posted by J-Reyno

Whether one cares about the genderlocks or not, let's make one thing clear: if anyone thinks that bunny girls are okay but that bunny guys are weird, they are practicing a toxic, sexist bias.

At this point it is what it is. Nothing we can do about getting genderlocked races for the time being. What we will do is call it what it is.

Sexist.

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Don't think that attacking who ever made such decision is healthy if you want to make yourself heard maybe keep going with a formal or polite dialogue for justified requests.

Not understanding why players keep creating new threads on the same subject if exists already two threads about this, it will only spread players and not have their message heard.

Thank you for this! <3 The decision to gender-lock a race is unacceptable. The real-world implications about gender and stereotypes are what makes me disappointed the most, in addition to the conflict within the playerbase community. While I understand that cultural differences, lore reasons, and development conflicts (or all of the above) might have influenced a decision to gender-lock each race, many arguments for the decision fall apart as fallacies.

Until given a clear reason for the gender-locking, it is hard to say...although the whole premise IS a regression from a Western-player perspective. Although I was excited for male Viera to be introduced (the option to gender-lock did not even register on my radar), I am more upset about the gender-locking period. If Hrothgar are to be in the game, I also think female Hrothgar need to be introduced! I hope the real-world ripples are not dismissed. (For the record, I don't think any clothing options need to be gender-locked either, but I can maybe hash that out to development reasons...)

I am still a relatively new player and do NOT plan to cancel my subscription, but I am also kind of holding out hope that the developers will correct their mistakes. I am not that familiar with how much SE listens or works to compromise with their playerbase. There was a conscious decision from the developers to not include male Viera or female Hrothgar that I can't justify, but I can hope for some rectification. I would have rather them release a single race or take as much time as they need to develop both races, etc.

I am sad for all of the backlash you (and any others) have received. No matter the situation, there is absolutely no room for hate...Part of the reason I've enjoyed this game so far is the generally supportive community that I have experienced, on and offline, outside of my FC.

Crossing my fingers and sending out those support vibes <3

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

Don't think that attacking who ever made such decision is healthy if you want to make yourself heard maybe keep going with a formal or polite dialogue for justified requests.

Not understanding why players keep creating new threads on the same subject if exists already two threads about this, it will only spread players and not have their message heard.

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I am not "attacking" Yoshi by calling his ideas sexist. If someone is being racist, is it okay to call it that or would I be "attacking" them by calling them racist?

I am calling it what it is and we're not going to tip-toe around his or anyone else's feelings. We wanted those rabbit males and no, we are not weird. Thinking that rabbit females are okay but rabbit males are "weird" is sexist.

The reason is mostly a technical one.

Adding a new race with different proportions (which these do have despite people parroting "its just a hyur with ears/roe with lion head") means remodelling all prior equipment, and creates an additional variant for all future equipment.
It's why they said we'd only be getting one more race.

So they had one more race to fit in the game, but there were two races fans have been asking for, Viera and Ronso.

They made a choice to attempt to please everyone, which is obviously impossible when you can't provide everything.

Comments about "male bunnies are weird" or "the lore says..." are red herrings. They were probably factors in the decision process to some extent, lending more weight to them thinking 'Viera&Hrothgar' was a better choice than 'Just Viera' but not the main issue.

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Originally Posted by J-Reyno

I am calling it what it is and we're not going to tip-toe around his or anyone else's feelings. We wanted those rabbit males and no, we are not weird. Thinking that rabbit females are okay but rabbit males are "weird" is sexist.

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Fictional rabbits created by SE who decide how they want them to be portrayed in their works. You don't tell an author of a book to change the characters they created because one is stereotyped incorrectly, because in the end it's their creation to do whatever they want with it. There are bigger issues in life than whether Bugs Bunny is being used as a sexist tool or not.

lmao

I love the sick burns in this entire thread.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

The true sexism and homophobia is coming from the people making these comments, along with whoever decided to go through with the gender locks.

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lol, What?!?

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Also, me and many others have canceled our subscriptions over this gender lock. The people telling us to stay gone are a plague on this community and their complacency will only let more and more bad decisions to go by without positive and negative feedback.

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But ... how will there be negative feed back if people let their subs run out and can't talk on the forums when ever something is revealed that they don't agree with?
S-E will just assume everyone has moved on because the ones "protesting/ boycotting" can't be heard.

Lol

"We can only add one more full race. Female Viera are a must, but should we go with Male Viera too, or Ronso? Either way, there's an option for guys and girls, and Ronso might be more popular than male Viera. Let's go with Ronso for more variety."

"Sexist!"

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Lol

"We can only add one more full race. Female Viera are a must, but should we go with Male Viera too, or Ronso? Either way, there's an option for guys and girls, and Ronso might be more popular than male Viera. Let's go with Ronso for more variety."

"Sexist!"

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"I'm going to make up quotes that were never actually said to try and silence the opinions of others, but I'm going to ignore the sexist remarks that are documented because that goes against my narrative."

This is the real lol, folks.

Since you're struggling to find what was actually said about male Viera, I'm here to help:

"Since it seems like Viera is popular around the world we have been proactively looking into this, but since having a rabbit male might be kind of weird, maybe we’ll look into having a separate race for the male counterpart."

Source: https://www.siliconera.com/2013/02/2...jg8o6pCcXIo.99

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Lol

"We can only add one more full race. Female Viera are a must, but should we go with Male Viera too, or Ronso? Either way, there's an option for guys and girls, and Ronso might be more popular than male Viera. Let's go with Ronso for more variety."

"Sexist!"

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this, so much this.

It's simple logic to me. I HOPED it wouldn't be the case ... I really did fool myself into thinking we were getting 2 full races (cause I never doubted Blufever leaks. The man said 2 races and hinted at a Lion and no one was gonna tell me that's not happening). But fact of the matter is that Viera have never been depicted as male and they are the most wanted by a mile ... and people HAVE been asking for more Beastly Races as well.

So now we're in a position where people are demanding a lift on gender locked races when we all know 1 will be Femroe levels of payed and the other is something they may feel doesn't add anything new ...

People are basically asking for them to put in the time and effort to make the least popular gender for either race.

Looks like people are answering the call of Shadowbringer's opening.
"Become what you must. Become the warrior of darkness."

I understand people like cosmetics, but saying 'I'm not playing the game unless you give me explicitly what I want' is very, very childish. Especially considering the time and money you have put into the game so far. Honestly, if all you people left and there was only 50 000 players left, I'd be happy because of less screen clutter from people afking in cities, less ice mages, less dps that don't use aoes in dungeons, less people looking for carries in the PF. Y'all don't do any Pve content (except when you ruin people's dungeon experiences) anyway so you have 0 positive impact on my game experience.

I can understand people being mad about gender locking races, especially considering the history the FF online environment had with this particular issue, BUT (and that's a big but) I just can't understand, or see, how this has anything to do with sexism, homophobia and toxic masculinity.
This was probably just a time/money-saving move by SE probably based on their user data analysis; nothing more, nothing less.
Trying to inject anything else into this issue is just silly, really.

This really caused us to bring out the worst in each other. I’m disappointed in all of us.

I agree to the title, but I think you're the problem OP.

I'm pretty disappointed myself as I believe lore reasoning is a lazy cop-out since they've had no problem to bend that before to their needs, especially with NieR raid coming soon. I also think genderlocked races are a dated concept in general and I thought 2.0 made that clear to the devs. Plus having the first male Viera in FF would have been huge milestone for the series and would have given tons of free marketing.

See that? That's criticism. You somehow thinking the devs are out there for your homosexuality is paranoid at best. Seriously calling the devs sexist homophobes for a disagreeable design decision has to be the most absurd thing I've seen here. Extremely selfish entitlement and another case of "everything is about me-me-me" outrage culture. Tons of assumptions to suit your own narrative of sexist homophobia.

I hope it's just salt and people upvoting the OP don't actually think the devs deserve these kind of toxic insults. Be reasonable people.

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Originally Posted by J-Reyno

I didn't call the comment homophobic, I called it sexist. These are two different things, and we're fortunate enough to have google available to educate you. Use it.

"Lore" as an explanation is not valid when 1) you can have eight WHMs in a party and 2) they write the lore to their desires. In this case, they've written the lore in such a way to keep out those "weird" Viera males.

Also, we appreciate you showing your true feelings on the matter. You hate those raunchy gays, is that it? You've decided that anyone who wants male Viera is a homosexual ERPer and you don't want those people in your game.

Tell you what, we'll concede your point once you find examples of my pUbLiC hOmOsExUaL RP!?!?!

You can't, and you won't. You've decided to make up some imaginary boogeyman in your head because you have no other point to make that won't include made-up quotes and false assumptions of character. You mock, demean and disparage because your arguments are as empty as your head.

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Well pulling the racist/homophobic/sexist cards in a victimization purpose won't get your point heard persons are completely different and have different personal preferences, for instance my concept on Male Viera is completely different from the concept presented in fan art so far do imagine Male Viera being strong large medium stature and middle aged wrinkled with big beer belly, with a big beard and strong mustache does that make me sexist? No.

Neither you will see me pressing a whole company to force my concept on Male Viera to feel my fetish included, on other hand totally respect that YOU have a different concept for Male Viera than me and would be indifferent to me either concept SE would choose because after all is their product in the end, not mine or yours.

Just cause persons have different personal preferences from yours doesn't make them sexists, homophobic or racists that's just a way of grooming the company to make them do what you want.

What did ask to you before and ask again please stop attacking the company workers and lets try to be heard in a different and more polite dialogue.

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Originally Posted by J-Reyno

I didn't call the comment homophobic, I called it sexist. These are two different things, and we're fortunate enough to have google available to educate you. Use it.

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In fairness, it's even harder to paint it as sexist. Sexism is prejudice based on gender; SE clearly isn't displaying any prejudices against males, because they ARE introducing a new male. If any prejudice was displayed at all, it was favouring stereotypical muscle-bound males over those dressed as playboy bunnies. That's a lot closer to homophobia than anything.

Be careful criticizing others for their education when you're making mistakes yourself.

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As to the quote in question, yeah, sure, it's possible to interpret that in a negative way. That said, I have two questions for you.

(1) Is it really that surprising to see SE make gender-locked races? It's not like SE doesn't gender-lock gear. It's not like SE didn't take forever and a year to release the bunny suit for male characters. It's not like they haven't made gender-specific appearances for things like dresses.

(2) Do you really, REALLY think that this team is homophobic or sexist? This is a dev team that has created more effeminate males than virtually any Western title on the planet. The male characters are so pretty in this game (on average) that I don't even have an interest in playing one. Every other Hildibrand sequence involves rubbing a near-naked man all over with oil. The gender balance around meaningful storyline NPCs is spectacular, featuring plenty of strong men and women taking the lead in every type of scenario imaginable. Heck, years ago, Squaresoft - before even merging with Enix to become SE - made an entire sequence in FF7 centered around a cross-dressing minigame, with the female characters intentionally poking fun at how uncomfortable Cloud was.

I have a hard time buying the sexism / homophobic arguments. It seems like you're taking a game that in most respects is extremely progressive, and excoriating it the split-second you feel it doesn't live up to the high standards it typically sets. I'm usually loathe to defend SE - I have a lot of complaints with the development team - but in this particular respect, they're doing just fine, in my opinion. And I resent the implication that holding this opinion makes me a sexist.

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Originally Posted by repth

i don't think you should mention children in any of your posts with a username like that

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It's pure, Christian and household friendly. Only someone tainted by Satan would see any weird undertones with my name.

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Originally Posted by repth

i don't think you should mention children in any of your posts with a username like that

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First off, how dare you. Second, I guess everyone who is attracted to men must have a thing for kids because of them usually having flat chests. Call me when you complete Dun Scaith maybe the end boss will change your mind.

So Viera was never a problem when they first appeared in their first game. Viera lore always being how the males are non-existent, almost mythical, and that the females are like amazon warrior playboy bunnies.

It just became a problem now, and apparently it's a sexist and homophobic problem.

Let's just disregard all the non-homophobic stuff that exists in the game that SE has made for us. All the characters that represent different types of orientations.

Nooo, noooo. It's all a damn homophobic problem right now, because they decided to not let you play a male and a female of two specific races.

Some people, I swear.

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Originally Posted by Kirsten_Rev

In fairness, it's even harder to paint it as sexist. Sexism is prejudice based on gender; SE clearly isn't displaying any prejudices against males, because they ARE introducing a new male. If any prejudice was displayed at all, it was favouring stereotypical muscle-bound males over those dressed as playboy bunnies. That's a lot closer to homophobia than anything.

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I am not going to call it homophobic (even though there are implications) because, frankly, I don't associate feminine traits in men specifically with homosexuality. I personal know gay men who are very masculine, and plenty of gay ladies who are the most feminine women you'd meet. It just becomes a messy argument even if I do have my own thoughts about it.

Yes, sexism is prejudice based on gender. There is definitely a prejudice against certain feminine traits in men at play, which is discriminatory. There is a reason why female characters have more options to wear styles for men than vice-versa. Sure, there are definitely options to make "skimpy" dudes and what all, but pointing that out is saying "take what you can get" instead of "hey, maybe the options should be equal". I'm not going to comment on SE as a whole because we're talking about the decisions of a particular dev team.

Also, be careful in assuming that my criticism is limited only to this particular decision. I don't think we're that familiar with each other.

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Originally Posted by repth

i don't think you should mention children in any of your posts with a username like that

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They're from the r/FFXIV Discord. Cut them some slack.

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Originally Posted by Raiu

So Viera was never a problem when they first appeared in their first game. Viera lore always being how the males are non-existent, almost mythical, and that the females are like amazon warrior playboy bunnies.

It just became a problem now, and apparently it's a sexist and homophobic problem.

Let's just disregard all the non-homophobic stuff that exists in the game that SE has made for us. All the characters that represent different types of orientations.

Nooo, noooo. It's all a damn homophobic problem right now, because they decided to not let you play a male and a female of two specific races.

Some people, I swear.

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Preach.

As someone stated before, the FFXIV dev team has bent over backwards for the LGBTQ+ community.

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Originally Posted by Raiu

So Viera was never a problem when they first appeared in their first game. Viera lore always being how the males are non-existent, almost mythical, and that the females are like amazon warrior playboy bunnies...

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Just wanted to take a moment to speak to this piece of it, and just give my perspective as to why I didn't care about it then but care about it now. In FFXII, I played as other characters - as Vaan, Fran, Basch, Ashe, etc... Fran was a Viera I played as, but never my character. Viera lore always fascinated me.

But here, I play my own character, for whom I conceive backstories and personalities, and even plan out character arcs (I'm a writer, literally always writing). We're going to the Viera homeland in Shadowbringers. I took male Viera as given once it became clear the race was coming. I get that SE never promised us males, and I acknowledge that I assumed.

With the combination of ShB news and Viera lore, I came up with an awesome backstory for my character, with personality traits and idiosyncracies. I was really excited to be a male Viera. I feel really let down that I don't get to run around as that character. May still write his story though.

Look, people on both sides of this argument are running on intense emotions. Neither side of the disagreement is a hoard of demons or whatever, but we've spent the last 48 hours throwing some pretty horrific, personal attacks at one another. This isn't productive, and really does reflect the worst in us - on both sides.

We all love FFXIV, and are all passionate, and all care about different things. We can be productive - and even disagree - without turning on each other like this.

Wait, OP, aren't you the same guy who kept complaining about not having male Viera and saying you were unsubbing because no male Viera?

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Originally Posted by J-Reyno

Your educated guess was a wrongful assumption. This isn't a discussion about homophobia because I've said nothing about it, yet your first comment to me is about THOSE GAYS and their bad behavior as if that had anything to do with my comment. If you have a problem with gays, talk to them about it. If you have a problem with Mateus, submit in-game feedback. I'm not here to discuss your personal prejudices.

First I was a gay ERPer, then I was an incel MGTOW, now I'm a "gaybro" and whatever that's supposed to imply. You're determined to slap some negative identity buzzword label on me because you have nothing of value to argue and would rather depreciate my character. And when I point it out, you say I'm playing the victim. I don't know what you think you know about me, but I'm not a victim to anyone or anything. Least of all you. I do, however, have criticisms that I can and will share. And I will call out your crap, too. Get used to it.

If you want a more detailed answer regarding the sexist implications, see above.

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The first gay ERP MGTOW incel.

It's the perfect combination of things that make no sense put together.

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Originally Posted by Illianaro

Just wanted to take a moment to speak to this piece of it, and just give my perspective as to why I didn't care about it then but care about it now. In FFXII, I played as other characters - as Vaan, Fran, Basch, Ashe, etc... Fran was a Viera I played as, but never my character. Viera lore always fascinated me.

But here, I play my own character, for whom I conceive backstories and personalities, and even plan out character arcs (I'm a writer, literally always writing). We're going to the Viera homeland in Shadowbringers. I took male Viera as given once it became clear the race was coming. I get that SE never promised us males, and I acknowledge that I assumed.

With the combination of ShB news and Viera lore, I came up with an awesome backstory for my character, with personality traits and idiosyncracies. I was really excited to be a male Viera. I feel really let down that I don't get to run around as that character. May still write his story though.

Look, people on both sides of this argument are running on intense emotions. Neither side of the disagreement is a hoard of demons or whatever, but we've spent the last 48 hours throwing some pretty horrific, personal attacks at one another. This isn't productive, and really does reflect the worst in us - on both sides.

We all love FFXIV, and are all passionate, and all care about different things. We can be productive - and even disagree - without turning on each other like this.

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This is genuinely the best post highlighting the disappointment that comes with not getting a class. If more people had your view on the subject instead of "This is an assault on gay rights and Yoshi P is a sexist" than there wouldn't be so much backlash against male Viera fans right now.
I personally have my characters lore all planned out for the "Elezen child sized variant of female viera" that was teased at the EU fanfest. I'll be disappointed if it doesn't come along but I'm not gonna start a letter writing campaign with NAMBLA if it doesn't happen.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

After reading through a plethora of posts on this forum I have come to the following conclusion. We have one group who is clearly upset over the gender locks and has come to the forums to voice their opinion, and another group who appears complacent and seeks to shut down any dissent aka “white knighting.”

Let me say this. Glamour and races may not matter to you. Congrats. It matters to a lot of other people though and you don’t have the right to make them feel like trash. Attacks have been flung at people who wanted male Viera due to sexuality, masculinity/feminity, etc. These comments are vicious and have no place here. The true sexism and homophobia is coming from the people making these comments, along with whoever decided to go through with the gender locks.

Also, me and many others have canceled our subscriptions over this gender lock. The people telling us to stay gone are a plague on this community and their complacency will only let more and more bad decisions to go by without positive and negative feedback. This forum is not only for saying “Yay I’m happy!” We have the right to voice our discontent on here too, and telling us to go and stay gone makes you look like a tremendously uncaring person.

Lastly, let’s discuss threats. Telling me that “natural selection should come for me” in response to my posts in the Gender Lock thread is not an acceptable way to argue pro-gender lock points. That comment was so extreme that I’m surprised the poster is not banned when I have been banned for less. That is the kind of homophobia and extremism that results in hate crimes in real life, and I demand that action be taken against such behavior now.

Sorry this is so long, but since I apparently can still post for the time being I’m going to use what remaining power I have left to call everyone out on their insane behavior. Instead of turning on each other, the anger should be directed at whoever decided this was an acceptable decision since it has completely ruptured an already damaged community in the wake of other bad decisions like Limited Jobs and Eureka.

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The only INSANE behavior I have seen have been from people such as yourself turning this into some sort of giant human rights violation and a war on equality, when there are plenty of current options in game that state otherwise (same sex marriage, male bunny suits and other glamours, slender males, muscle males, slender females and muscle females (and lets face it outside of a specific race the character customization is hardly stellar in this game the biggest choice you have is race and hairstyle).

I'm fine with people expressing their opinion on this and how they aren't happy with SE that's all good. However that's not whats happening, people are turning this issue into something else and that makes you lose all credibility in my eyes.

Call this what it was, a design choice (whether for lore or copyright reasons or whatever they want to call it) that you disagree with because you were looking forward to playing as a male veira and you feel that SE made the wrong decision, but the second you say this is homophobic or turn this into a giant social issue where I will just assume you are acting like a child who can't get his own way. There are plenty of real issues the LGBT community in the world has to deal with, a fantasy race in a fantasy game not being available so they can make a character to their exact specification is not one of them.

You have decided to unsubscribe as you feel your level of fun in this game will not be worth a subscription if you can't play as a veira male, that's fine that's all you have to say to get the point across.

As for white knighting, I could care less about Yoshi and SE, I think the gameplay itself has stagnated so much and the formula hasn't changed since ARR. There are plenty of reason to unsubscribe from this game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Illianaro

Just wanted to take a moment to speak to this piece of it, and just give my perspective as to why I didn't care about it then but care about it now. In FFXII, I played as other characters - as Vaan, Fran, Basch, Ashe, etc... Fran was a Viera I played as, but never my character. Viera lore always fascinated me.

But here, I play my own character, for whom I conceive backstories and personalities, and even plan out character arcs (I'm a writer, literally always writing). We're going to the Viera homeland in Shadowbringers. I took male Viera as given once it became clear the race was coming. I get that SE never promised us males, and I acknowledge that I assumed.

With the combination of ShB news and Viera lore, I came up with an awesome backstory for my character, with personality traits and idiosyncracies. I was really excited to be a male Viera. I feel really let down that I don't get to run around as that character. May still write his story though.

Look, people on both sides of this argument are running on intense emotions. Neither side of the disagreement is a hoard of demons or whatever, but we've spent the last 48 hours throwing some pretty horrific, personal attacks at one another. This isn't productive, and really does reflect the worst in us - on both sides.

We all love FFXIV, and are all passionate, and all care about different things. We can be productive - and even disagree - without turning on each other like this.

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These are the arguments you should be making, about how it affects your enjoyment of the game. Not how you are offended and feel personally violated because of a design choice.

Grow up and make a real case for yourselves like above, instead of crying and shouting about social issues hoping you will scare SE into backing down.

The crazy part is that Matsuno even said on twitter that the decision not to include male Viera wasn't his and said that this rumor was complete nonsense.

ugh, can we PLEASE stop the terrible double standard about viera?
all the people voicing their opinion on wanting female viera is seen as a legit petition
all the prople voicing their opinion on wanting male viera has been said already many times as "indulging their weird sexual fantasies" STOP it. wanting males or females of the races is for the same reason,

My god the forums have turned into an absolute shitshow.