NEW HEALER FOR 5.0

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Originally Posted by technole

I like that both these posts are next to each other. More like DPS can learn to adapt to 60-minute queues in 5.0

The haha no new healer cheerleaders will be quiet now.

New healer or else.

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This is the most hilarious thing I've read all day.

I’m saying it is VERY likely to still happen. In fact I’m just simply expecting a healer to be revealed later.

When minifilia was first shown in the trailer I expected her to have a class associated with her. This last keynote they showed minifilia as a character that can come with you in the trust system this means she has a class. They avoided saying what class she is. It’s possible she is a class we already know.

But I’m betting she is the new healer class. We might even get teased for it in his upcoming patch we’ll see.

Annnnnd Live letter done, no news or not a single word for healer again. Feels so great to be totally ignored. At least, they could give us an explanation, or tell us that they did not forget us and to be patient. Instead of that, no, nothing.

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Originally Posted by AlliciaCapulet

Annnnnd Live letter done, no news or not a single word for healer again. Feels so great to be totally ignored. At least, they could give us an explanation, or tell us that they did not forget us and to be patient. Instead of that, no, nothing.

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Right? Not a single "We're sorry, we're still working on balance" or anything. Literally just 30 minutes of silly movie promo that has nothing to do with game content and not a single nod to all the disheartened healers.

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Originally Posted by AlliciaCapulet

Annnnnd Live letter done, no news or not a single word for healer again. Feels so great to be totally ignored. At least, they could give us an explanation, or tell us that they did not forget us and to be patient. Instead of that, no, nothing.

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https://www.gamer.ne.jp/news/201903240006/

Translated text using ImTranslator:

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―― Since the "Gunbreaker", which is a tank, was announced first, I think there are also many who think that it is a healer next. Please let me know the reason you decided to use the dancer as Range DPS.

Yoshida: It was early decided to add a new job to the tank. I thought that the odd number of jobs for the role of MT and ST was a bad balance. By adding a distinctive weapon in the "Final Fantasy" series, it is easy to appeal to people who have not moved their tentacles to the online "Final Fantasy" until now. And when I thought about where I was going to roll another one, it was the range DPS which was simply only two frames in the candidate until the end.

As for Healer 3 jobs, where I have a hard time balancing, I would like to focus on balancing 3 jobs in 5.0, rather than adding jobs.

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Originally Posted by Darkplanet

But I’m betting she is the new healer class. We might even get teased for it in his upcoming patch we’ll see.

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I'm sorry to tell you this, but it has been confirmed that a new healer isn't going to happen. As a result of balance concerns.

"―― Since Gunbreaker, which is a tank, was announced first, many thought the next job would be a healer. Please let us know why you decided to make Dancer a ranged DPS.

Yoshi-P: The decision to add another tank was made very early. I felt that the odd number of jobs for the roles of MT and OT was badly balanced. By adding a distinctive "Final Fantasy" weapon to the game, we hoped to appeal to those who have yet to try their hands on the game. And when I thought where we were going for the next one, it was decided to add a ranged DPS, because it only had two options for the role.

As for the healers, it is difficult to balance them, so I would like to focus on balancing the existing jobs in 5.0 before adding new ones."

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...no_new_healer/

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Originally Posted by technole

I like that both these posts are next to each other. More like DPS can learn to adapt to 60 minute queues in 5.0

The haha no new healer cheerleaders will be quiet now.

New healer or else.

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DPS queues were no slower in Stormblood than ARR or Heavensward, though.... You might want to pick a different warrant?

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Originally Posted by AlliciaCapulet

Honnestly SE, we don't need any new DPS any time soon. Make a new healer already. You skipped us on SB, ok, we can survive 1 expansion. You skip us again? I just lost interest at that moment for the expansion. And looking at the forum, I'm not alone. So, you have 3 months, make a new healing job already.

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stop being entitled. you are no one to make demands. besides it takes two years to make a new class they said. we have plenty of melee dps yes but not enough range. who cares if it is still a dps. range players have just as much of a right to get new toys too. dancer not being a healer is bringing the worst out in people (although most healers are the toxic players anyways.)

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Originally Posted by Enla

https://www.gamer.ne.jp/news/201903240006/

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At the very least, he could have said something in the keynote yesterday, like "For every healers, sorry, it won't be this expansion. I'm sorry, I said last year that we will balance tank/healer, obviously I didn't do my job and need another 2 years, sorry for that." That would have been clear and better, than just answering on a secondary website.

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Originally Posted by guardin

stop being entitled. you are no one to make demands. besides it takes two years to make a new class they said. we have plenty of melee dps yes but not enough range. who cares if it is still a dps. range players have just as much of a right to get new toys too. dancer not being a healer is bringing the worst out in people (although most healers are the toxic players anyways.)

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Get lost, you are no one to tell me that. There is 3 healer jobs, 11 DPS job, we have every right (healer) to be mad.

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Originally Posted by guardin

stop being entitled. you are no one to make demands. besides it takes two years to make a new class they said. we have plenty of melee dps yes but not enough range. who cares if it is still a dps. range players have just as much of a right to get new toys too. dancer not being a healer is bringing the worst out in people (although most healers are the toxic players anyways.)

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It's not about Dancer not being a healer. It's about there being 0 healers. DPS get new toys EVERY expac, literally 1 or 2 get added each time, so please don't try to come off like DPS have it hard because "lack of ranged dps".

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Originally Posted by AlliciaCapulet

At the very least, he could have said something in the keynote yesterday, like "For every healers, sorry, it won't be this expansion. I'm sorry, I said last year that we will balance tank/healer, obviously I didn't do my job and need another 2 years, sorry for that." That would have been clear and better, than just answering on a secondary website.

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I definitely agree this should have been addressed during fanfest. However since he did address it and people were worried he hadn't I felt it prudent to post about since it likely won't be addressed at all for the rest of the event at this rate.

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Originally Posted by guardin

stop being entitled. you are no one to make demands. besides it takes two years to make a new class they said. we have plenty of melee dps yes but not enough range. who cares if it is still a dps. Dps players have just as much of a right to get new toys too. dancer not being a healer is bringing the worst out in people (although most healers are the toxic players anyways.)

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We have every right to be pissed. Being ranged physical does not change the fact it is still a dps. At the end of the day, dps have 10 jobs to choose from. A wide variety of jobs. Healers have 3 jobs, sure, but they do not offer variety by any means. They may look different, but their heals are the same at the core, and especially their dps skills. They’re all too much alike, and all we want is variety. If you get bored of a dps, you have a lot to choose from if you wanna change up playstyles. We can’t. We are stuck playing basically the same way. Cards, a few different ogcds and pets are not enough to give variety.

Dancer could have opened up a whole new healing playstyle among the healers. FINALLY something unique, fresh and new! But no. We (healers) were told before SB that we don’t get a new job because they want to work on balance. SB is almost over, and they still didn’t get balance right. Now we are supposed to be okay with sitting back seat yet AGAIN for ANOTHER expansion? And not even guaranteed to get one next expansion! We are supposed be okay with waiting 6+ years because they can’t balance their own game? News flash: dps are far from balanced, yet they still get jobs. Every. Single. Expansion. You people are no more entitled to a new class than we are. We got screwed over, and darn right we are mad, and we have the right to be.

Yoshi's response for all of you mad about no healer is : "Please enjoy the new jobs without being bound by your role"

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Originally Posted by Racen

Yoshi's response for all of you mad about no healer is : "Please enjoy the new jobs without being bound by your role"

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Oh good, we will. So no one is going to player healer anymore? Hope the Trust AI works well because the queue will be pretty long...

You people are crazy if you think they can make a new job or change Dancer within 3 months. I get that you're disappointed, but that's an unrealistic expectation

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Originally Posted by VillainQueen

Oh good, we will. So no one is going to player healer anymore? Hope the Trust AI works well because the queue will be pretty long...

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It's circular. People switch roles, some that have tanked in the past may switch to dps, some who have dps'd in the past will switch to healer and around it goes. Y'all are getting a WHM rework as well.

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

It's not about Dancer not being a healer. It's about there being 0 healers. DPS get new toys EVERY expac, literally 1 or 2 get added each time, so please don't try to come off like DPS have it hard because "lack of ranged dps".

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At the same time you're talking as if healers exclusively play healers. I'm sure many do but most do not. You have access to the exact same toys as a tank or dps main. Just because you don't like the toys you're getting doesn't mean you get less.

And no I'm not happy with there being no new healer in 5.0. But I'm not greatly upset by it either. The healer balance really needs to be addressed, especially with how whm is very mundane and undervalued compared to the other two. If SE have not introduced a new healer because they want to balance the current three better, then I'm okay with it. Not happy, but I accept it.

I'm actually pretty excited to try out dancer.

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Originally Posted by VillainQueen

Oh good, we will. So no one is going to player healer anymore? Hope the Trust AI works well because the queue will be pretty long...

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No. It's not that "nobody" will play healer anymore. People who are burned out on the three healing jobs we have or are turned off the role entirely won't heal anymore, others will.
Heck I'm a SAM main yet I regularly heal and tank, to the point where my DRK actually outgears my SAM.
Unless they break DRK and WHM (even more...) in the upcoming Battle System rework this isn't going to change come ShB and I'm sure I'm not the only person playing multiple roles.
There's plenty of people who picked up tanking because of queue times, if the adventurer in need shifts to healers for ShB that might even be a good thing if it gets more people to pick up the role and find out they enjoy it.

I understand why people are upset and I sympathize with your cause but if people think the game is going to grind to a halt because the healer population as a whole disappears because of this they've got another thing coming.

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Originally Posted by Astrus

No. It's not that "nobody" will play healer anymore. People who are burned out on the three healing jobs we have or are turned off the role entirely won't heal anymore, others will.
Heck I'm a SAM main yet I regularly heal and tank, to the point where my DRK actually outgears my SAM.
Unless they break DRK and WHM (even more...) in the upcoming Battle System rework this isn't going to change come ShB and I'm sure I'm not the only person playing multiple roles.
There's plenty of people who picked up tanking because of queue times, if the adventurer in need shifts to healers for ShB that might even be a good thing if it gets more people to pick up the role and find out they enjoy it.

I understand why people are upset and I sympathize with your cause but if people think the game is going to grind to a halt because the healer population as a whole disappears because of this they've got another thing coming.

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Of course it's never "nobody" but to say; "well just play them regardless even if you rather like to play another role" It's a bit disheartening. After so many years we healers want to join in to the fun experience our favorite role in a different way. A rework can only do so much. And about the que times. The first weeks people will try out the new jobs and it passes quickly too and people will go back to their main. But adding more and more DPS breaks the balance. At least we get a tank so I hope that some DPS focused people like Gunbreaker and main that.

Why should they make a new healer when they have a hard enough time balancing the 3 we have? Not to mention you could literally remove the WHM lily system and the job wouldn't change. Astro's have 2 useless cards (Spire and Arrow) while the cards RNG being meh at best. Getting 6 boles in a row is a joke. Finish balancing and fine tuning the current healers before adding a new one.

On a side not, Dancer as a ranged dps is odd, but it is a physical DPS which we only have 2 before while we had 3 of Melee and Magic Ranged. A new ranged DPS makes sense so long as it is physical.

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Originally Posted by Nyxn607

Why should they make a new healer when they have a hard enough time balancing the 3 we have? Not to mention you could literally remove the WHM lily system and the job wouldn't change. Finish balancing and fixing the current healers before adding a new one.

On a side not, Dancer as a ranged dps is odd, but it is a physical DPS which we only have 2 before while we had 3 of Melee and Magic Ranged. A new ranged DPS makes sense so long as it is physical.

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Why do we have a new tank then? They haven't fixed DRK.
Why did we get a new melee DPS and caster in SB? MNK and BLM were still bad then.
Why are we getting a new ranged DPS? MCH is still arguably the worst job in the game.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

Why do we have a new tank then? They haven't fixed DRK.
Why did we get a new melee DPS and caster in SB? MNK and BLM were still bad then.
Why are we getting a new ranged DPS? MCH is still arguably the worst job in the game.

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The tanks are more balanced than the healers. I would also presume it is easier to balance tanks over healers due to the impact they have on a run.
We got 2 new dps in SB due to everyone and their siblings wanting to play dps. If more people would play tank/healer it might have been different.
MCH is a decent job, it just relies way to much on 1 or 2 skills that are hard to use due to latency issues. MCH definitely needs a re-haul.

I would not be surprised to see a new healer announced half way through ShB, but they need to fine-tune AST and WHM first. I feel that Scholar is a decent spot as is.

I think a new ranged DPS was needed, though they still need to fix Machinist.

They also need to fix how healers are balanced. However, as a healer main, I'd like to see a new healer and was hoping Dancer would be it, because it would be a good and interesting healer concept. If Geomancer is announced as a healer role, I'd still be down for that. But at the moment we've not really had anything new/different for a long time in terms of playing healers and Astrologian wasn't even -that- new, although it had things to build its identity such as the card buffs but on a healing level, it's a hybrid of Scholar and White Mage. So as a healer it didn't add anything new, it just helped blur the lines on the healers. Which we've seen happen in further adjustments. For example: White Mage got Assize, Scholar got Indominability and Astrologian got Earthly Star, they are all more-or-less the same spell but each with their own flavours.

I realise balancing healers is a big challenge. But I loved in in 2.0 where Scholar and White Mage had clear differences between them in how they worked mechanically as healers and thus complemented each other well in a party. I remember my Titan EX runs as a Scholar with a white mage co-healer, we'd coordinate with the White Mage focusing the big AoE heals and with my keeping the tank up and shielded. Nowadays White Mage's "big heal" identity is lost because both Scholar and Astrologian do not struggle for "big heals" - for AST, that's regardless of their stance. So the healier White Mage has no advantage over a Scholar or Astrologian. I've lost interest mostly as a healer, I was mostly a DPS in Stormblood, Red Mage managed to grip me more than keep me healing. Now I've just leveled Dark Knight and am re-learning how to tank again.

So my request as a healer main is, make meaningful changes to existing healers for 5.0, although I am a Scholar main, I think White Mage is in need of love as their identity as "the healiest of healers" only worked before Scholar got healier and Astrologian was added. And a new job would be nice, especially as it could help with rebalancing the healers too, for example Astrologian could get changes so it feels like like a WHM/SCH hybrid to heal, maybe with less of a need to fill their shoes, which I think was the attitude in 3.0, where AST needed to fit in both a Scholar and a White Mage spot in a party.

The issue with where AST fits in was there from its introduction due to copy pasting whm abilities. Since then it’s been an ongoing task to separate it.

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Originally Posted by Nyxn607

On a side not, Dancer as a ranged dps is odd, but it is a physical DPS which we only have 2 before while we had 3 of Melee and Magic Ranged. A new ranged DPS makes sense so long as it is physical.

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Where are my physical, ranged and melee Healers ?

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

The issue with where AST fits in was there from its introduction due to copy pasting whm abilities. Since then it’s been an ongoing task to separate it.

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I think it made some sense in 3.0, at least I could understand their reasoning, where prior to AST, SCH and WHM worked almost in perfect harmony of each other and AST had to find its way into the relationship, but I think the decision to make it a hybrid was what ended up dooming things in the long run. Plus I think the added effect is that it just felt like AST stepped on WHM's and SCH's toes a bit rather than feeling like a third healer to complement the other two.

Hence I was kinda hoping for a new healer, because how they do a new healer could help balance things with a 2 and 2 approach.

Maybe two healers that favour buffs to help keep parties from taking damage with heals to top them off and two healers that are about power of heals.

So instead of 3 healers competing for balance, it's two healers competing for balance for each side, each with their own flavours. In 2.0 I heard the term "proactive" and "reactive" healers used to describe SCH & WHM (and what I used when I wrote my now incredibly out dated SCH guide) and I really liked those terms. I think it's those terms that helped define how 2.0 healing worked and why SCH and WHM complimented each other so well. Keeping an even number of healers I think could be a way of balancing that approach. And as a SCH I don't mind taking nerfs if it means bringing that back, because I loved it as a SCH in 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

The issue with where AST fits in was there from its introduction due to copy pasting whm abilities. Since then it’s been an ongoing task to separate it.

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Yeah probably their biggest mistake in the healer role was adding AST the way they did as the first new healer. It borrowed too much from the other jobs and got stuck in a position where if it didn't do their job as well as they can, it wouldn't see use, but if it did it too well, it would make one or both of the other jobs disposable thanks to the buffs it can offer. WHM sorta bore the brunt of that ever since.

Personally, seeing as they're reusing the 'to work on balance' shtick again this expansion as the reason for no new healer, I can't say I have a lot of faith or trust in their ability to follow through. What real balance has been achieved since the start of Stormblood? We're pretty much in the same boat we were in when it all started. They still can't figure out how to make the healers have any real identity, how to make WHM feel special and viable next to its counter parts etc. I mean WHM is still sitting on a disposable lily system that might as well not exist. I want to be optimistic. I want to believe that they'll just blow us out of the water with amazing cast animations and new abilities that don't feel like carbon copies with a cheap veneer of particle effects to make them seem like they're different, that we'll see each role have a valid place and feel fun and engaging, that systems and moves that are redundant or useless will be reworked or tossed for better things. I want to believe a lot of things but this all feels like deja vu at this point and I find its more pragmatic to assume nothing is going to change and Ill probably just get another stone spell with a stolen cast animation and vaguely different mine craft rocks.

I think one of the problems SE has with healer balancing is less about the Jobs themselves and more about how healing works in FF14. The power and reach of heals in FF14 limits the mechanics and gameplay that can be applied to healing and as such it creates a very ridged meta with little room for variety. Their options really are to scale back the strength of healing so they can make bosses less bursty and thus allow for more options for healing mechanics or to focus on moving healers more to support and have their healing and support elements synergise. Case in point, WHM would feel a lot better if their was some synergising between their healing abilities and their dps abilities so they interact.

If they don't address the core healing mechanics which are making balancing of jobs difficult, we will be in the exact same place in two years time with them still trying to figure out how to balance healing.

im glad Dancer is a DPS (more to play for me) but i wished they would make a singer/Performer like in FFX-2 as a Healer that would be nice

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

They also need to fix how healers are balanced. However, as a healer main, I'd like to see a new healer and was hoping Dancer would be it, because it would be a good and interesting healer concept. If Geomancer is announced as a healer role, I'd still be down for that. But at the moment we've not really had anything new/different for a long time in terms of playing healers and Astrologian wasn't even -that- new, although it had things to build its identity such as the card buffs but on a healing level, it's a hybrid of Scholar and White Mage. So as a healer it didn't add anything new, it just helped blur the lines on the healers. Which we've seen happen in further adjustments. For example: White Mage got Assize, Scholar got Indominability and Astrologian got Earthly Star, they are all more-or-less the same spell but each with their own flavours.

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If Geomancer is announced as a healer I would not be down for that. Spoilers ahead so tags enabled for that

In the lore of the 60-70 AST questline, it is established that GEO is either CNJ/WHM/AST (can't remember which off-hand, I think it's AST), but with them looking to the ground for their power, not the sky. That to me would feel like it's just an expansion of a different job, rather than a job in its own right.

Green Mage, Time Mage, Oracle, etc, I'd be down for as a healer, just anything but Geomancer. DNC we felt would have been good as a healer because of how it'd have forced SE to shake up the healing formula, which probably explains why they made it a ranged DPS instead.

Ah, I've yet to finish the AST 60-70 storyline, though I had heard about connections to CNJ, so I figured it would be something that'd build on Conjurer lore but take to a different direction. But I should probably finish with AST.

There's always Chemist as an option. Whilst it never appealed to me in other FF titles, but Octopath Traveller kinda opened me up to the idea of such a healer. They could mix poisons and explosives as their DPS moves. Mixing could be a mechanic used. A bit like mudras with its own flavour.

And I agree about Dancer, that's why I was hoping for it.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

Ah, I've yet to finish the AST 60-70 storyline, though I had heard about connections to CNJ, so I figured it would be something that'd build on Conjurer lore but take to a different direction. But I should probably finish with AST.

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Now, if SE made it another job that branched off CNJ (like the SMN/SCH thing) then yeah sure, I'd be down for that. But SE have said they'll never do that job split again, so we have to consider it'd have its own lore that doesn't tie in to CNJ. Thus it rules out GEO.

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There's always Chemist as an option. Whilst it never appealed to me in other FF titles, but Octopath Traveller kinda opened me up to the idea of such a healer. They could mix poisons and explosives as their DPS moves. Mixing could be a mechanic used. A bit like mudras with its own flavour.

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Yep, I do like the sound of that. I would love a healer like that. Could really spice up the formula. So I would definitely give that a full on try.

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

Where are my physical, ranged and melee Healers ?

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Probably another 10 years down the road. It would be nice to have a wider variety type of healers ... the problem is that a healer can completely trivialize content if it is not balanced properly (i.e. a physical healer (my idea of one) would be severely overpowered imo.)

Every patch caster dps is never balanced (at least at the beginning for example). Tanks also are not all that balanced but they added one. But at least tank was needed so SE got that right at least.
Needing to "balance" healers first really was a poor excuse and i am on the healers side on this one. Healers were supposed to be balanced for Stormblood.

@guardin, the only ones entitled are dps. Physical ranged needed some yes but it could have waited until 6.0. There is LOTS of other dps to choose from.
And this is coming from someone who has always been a dps main.

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Originally Posted by Nyxn607

Probably another 10 years down the road. It would be nice to have a wider variety type of healers ... the problem is that a healer can completely trivialize content if it is not balanced properly (i.e. a physical healer (my idea of one) would be severely overpowered imo.)

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No matter how they try to balance them, the community will always find some jobs to have an edge over the others, unless they completely homogenize them.
Bard has significant edge over Machinist right now, but they add a new physical range DPS anyway.

IMO they shouldn't wait until the current healers are completely balanced before adding a new healer. Likewise they shouldn't keep trying to super-balance the current healers when they haven't been successful at it for the last four years.
Maybe adding a new, completely unique healer can help them break the mold, add a new perspective on the healer balancing.

I'm kind of glad Dancer was revealed not to be a healer because it could give Geomancer the greater probability of being the next healer. I'm not a healer main, but I would consider it if GEO had the classic arsenal of Flood, Tornado, Quake, Float, etc. Though, I do feel bad that healer enthusiasts will have to wait a bit longer to play their new favorite class.

So other than just have a new healer just to have a new healer. Why, gameplay wise, do we need a new healer? Is there something lacking in our current lineup?

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

So other than just have a new healer just to have a new healer. Why, gameplay wise, do we need a new healer? Is there something lacking in our current lineup?

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People have refuted that question already....


They throw it right back.

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So other than just have a new dps just to have a new dps. Why, gameplay wise, do we need a new dps? Is there something lacking in our current lineup?

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I highly doubt they can design a healer from scratch and balance it in 3 months. I get that people are upset about not getting a new healer, but requesting them to make one on 3 months is incredibly unreasonable.