BA shows that we fail as a Community (big time)

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Not waiting for the entire server to show up.
Find it, kill it.

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How dare we form a community and share things. Terrible behaviour.

It's not a community failure, it's a game design failure with how ridiculous it is to get an organized group into BA.

The community has gone out of the way to try and make accessing BA as smooth as possible. Problem is it's as smooth as a pothole-riddled stretch of highway, and the community can only cover so many of those potholes.

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Originally Posted by Kazgrel

It's not a community failure, it's a game design failure with how ridiculous it is to get an organized group into BA.

The community has gone out of the way to try and make accessing BA as smooth as possible. Problem is it's as smooth as a pothole-riddled stretch of highway, and the community can only cover so many of those potholes.

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Yep, pretty much.

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Originally Posted by Kazgrel

It's not a community failure, it's a game design failure with how ridiculous it is to get an organized group into BA.

The community has gone out of the way to try and make accessing BA as smooth as possible. Problem is it's as smooth as a pothole-riddled stretch of highway, and the community can only cover so many of those potholes.

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The fact that you are almost required to use a third party software in order to play a certain aspect of FFXIV despite doing so is against the ToS and the developers suspending or canceling accounts when you do is telling.

They screwed up royally and now they have to somehow fix this mess up. Or they can pull a Diadem and just forget about it. Wonder what they're going to do?

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

The fact that you are almost required to use a third party software in order to play a certain aspect of FFXIV despite doing so is against the ToS and the developers suspending or canceling accounts when you do is telling.

They screwed up royally and now they have to somehow fix this mess up. Or they can pull a Diadem and just forget about it. Wonder what they're going to do?

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If they were going to pull a Diadem they'd simply turn BA into a bunch of Fates with a random chance of encountering Absolute Virtue, followed by a random chance of getting any reward at all.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

The fact that you are almost required to use a third party software in order to play a certain aspect of FFXIV despite doing so is against the ToS and the developers suspending or canceling accounts when you do is telling.

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Are you referring to Discord? Because using Discord while playing FFXIV is not against the ToS. It does not interact with or modify the game or game files in any way.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

The fact that you are almost required to use a third party software in order to play a certain aspect of FFXIV despite doing so is against the ToS and the developers suspending or canceling accounts when you do is telling.

They screwed up royally and now they have to somehow fix this mess up. Or they can pull a Diadem and just forget about it. Wonder what they're going to do?

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It isn't against ToS since it doesn't modify the game files/code. You may as well be saying having a web browser open and posting on here or elsewhere to organize BA groups is against ToS.

I do share your concern, though, that BA goes the way of Diadem's EM in the next month or so. I think it'll take a little longer due to the rewards kept within it (the mount being guaranteed from a clear helps), but come 5.0 I expect it'll be as dead as EMs. I hope I'm wrong.

How are the jp datacenters handling it? Are they using discord to coordinate, or do they just hop in and do it with whoever they get?

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

How are the jp datacenters handling it? Are they using discord to coordinate, or do they just hop in and do it with whoever they get?

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Here on elemental, they just form groups out of whoever got into the dungeon. The portals are a free for all, and while people occasionally will defer to someone who arrived first, it's not uncommon for someone to show up at the last minute and attempt to contest you for it anyway. I feel like there aren't too many hard feelings over portals. You see a lot of jokes about how people are going to duel for portals and like 'Let's have a good match', I think generally people agree that the portal situation is just screwed up all around. Plus, since most people ditch the FATE early to get there 'first', being there before someone else isn't much of a moral high ground.

After this, you're at the mercy of whichever jobs get in, and some runs (about a third of them in my experience, are voluntarily ended with everyone returning after Raiden if the raid sees there aren't enough tanks, but thus far every raid that has proceeded to AV has killed it (most still wipe to Ozma however, so the average pug here isn't that good yet, give them another week or so). Everything is done via text chat in yell (to differentiate it from people shouting for NMs outside). I've also yet to see a single raid wipe at any point before Ozma, the stories I hear of people wiping to the spear twins or the trash leading to the twins seem pretty inconceivable.

I have no doubt some mass premades exist, but in the 2 weeks the patch has been out, I've only been in one instance where a large premade has announced their presence. It seems more common for people to venture in in a full party at most, and then work with the other full parties and pugs who have entered.

The discord peeps think they run the place.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

Here on elemental, they just form groups out of whoever got into the dungeon. The portals are a free for all, and while people occasionally will defer to someone who arrived first, it's not uncommon for someone to show up at the last minute and attempt to contest you for it anyway. After this, you're at the mercy of whichever jobs get in, and some runs (about a third of them in my experience, are voluntarily ended with everyone returning after Raiden if the raid sees there aren't enough tanks, but thus far every raid that has proceeded to AV has killed it (most still wipe to Ozma however, so the average pug here isn't that good yet, give them another week or so).

Everything is done via text chat in yell (to differentiate it from people shouting for NMs outside). I've also yet to see a single raid wipe at any point before Ozma, the stories I hear of people wiping to the spear twins or the trash leading to the twins seem pretty inconceivable.

I have no doubt some mass premades exist, but in the 2 weeks the patch has been out, I've only been in one instance where a large premade has announced their presence. It seems more common for people to venture in in a full party at most, and then work with the other full parties and pugs who have entered.

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Aether did this for a couple days.

Not really since the discord went from 1 or 2 channels to like 8 or 9 though.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Not waiting for the entire server to show up.
Find it, kill it.

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This doesn't make any sense though. Have you ever tried to solo a Stormblood A rank or S rank? Even with a group of 8 it takes forever.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

This doesn't make any sense though. Have you ever tried to solo a Stormblood A rank or S rank? Even with a group of 8 it takes forever.

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However its quite peaceful before all the lounge lizards waiting around for someone else to pop them arrive.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

Here on elemental, they just form groups out of whoever got into the dungeon. The portals are a free for all, and while people occasionally will defer to someone who arrived first, it's not uncommon for someone to show up at the last minute and attempt to contest you for it anyway. I feel like there aren't too many hard feelings over portals. You see a lot of jokes about how people are going to duel for portals and like 'Let's have a good match', I think generally people agree that the portal situation is just screwed up all around. Plus, since most people ditch the FATE early to get there 'first', being there before someone else isn't much of a moral high ground.

After this, you're at the mercy of whichever jobs get in, and some runs (about a third of them in my experience, are voluntarily ended with everyone returning after Raiden if the raid sees there aren't enough tanks, but thus far every raid that has proceeded to AV has killed it (most still wipe to Ozma however, so the average pug here isn't that good yet, give them another week or so). Everything is done via text chat in yell (to differentiate it from people shouting for NMs outside). I've also yet to see a single raid wipe at any point before Ozma, the stories I hear of people wiping to the spear twins or the trash leading to the twins seem pretty inconceivable.

I have no doubt some mass premades exist, but in the 2 weeks the patch has been out, I've only been in one instance where a large premade has announced their presence. It seems more common for people to venture in in a full party at most, and then work with the other full parties and pugs who have entered.

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Trust me i have seen party wipe before they can get to Art before. One time there are no big allaince and some people want to go in, I end up joining for science. A little more than 16 join, i went to owain side and the other went to art. By the time we got to owain we were asking how the other side is doing, the out they wipe already.

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Originally Posted by Celef

I think the idea behind BA is really good, the real issue is the community. People are savages, just look how they interact with each others...

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Yeah I always liked the content in each eureka more than the people there. It's been a little while since I've seen any really bad harassment so maybe it's cooling off a bit now thankfully. At the worst times I found it really hard to understand the point of all the cyber bullying going on in shout chat and my conclusion is just that there's probably a lot of people with bad childhoods who didn't get any love from their parents and were maybe bullied themselves so they learned to be harsh and fight back at the world.

That's the only way I can explain the gangs of lowlife people who turn any discussion into fight and seem to have an endgame of getting somebody to kill themselves through a relentless barrage of psychological attacks and public shaming in and out of the game. Over time it just became my expectation that large content will have badly behaved trolls who can't be reasoned with and it made me engage with the community less and do my own thing. In recent weeks I've seen a lot of nice and helpful people who changed my mind a bit.

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Originally Posted by YatoShishi

I can only speak for EU Datacenter and from what I read on the english forums about NA servers but in my opinion BA or rather open dungeons do not work in our society. It brings out the worst in people

On EU Datacenter we even have a whole subculture of people lurking in Discord Channels and stalking premade groups, instance hoping with them, "stealing" a portal and mocking the parties who entered. (and yes those people get reported for stalking)

(please note Iam not saying everyone who uses a portal without a group is a sniper or does it on purpose, but lets be honest, most people do it "just to prove a point" or to get some sort of kick out of it, aka trolling)

We as a community failed. For some reason we do not manage to play together and respect each other.

My opinion is if you do NOT manage to get a bunch of people together inside eureka with a serious number of people to actually can encounter bosses (before the fate spawns, you rly need time to prepare) please let people with premade parties enjoy the content.

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actually the whole reason NA has a problem with this content, is that they are trying to turn public content into organized premade content. Its actively not supposed to be that kind of thing.

notice, there are no good tools for gathering 48 people in an instance

the portals are not linked to parties or groups.

there is a magia board and logogram and big area with no monsters for people enter and adjust


the flow chart for this event is supposed to be, people enter baldesian, then organize. they discuss what they need, adapt with what they have, then attempt the content.

its not, in general supposed to be a 2 hour organization process.

and yes, many people wish to attempt it who havent preformed groups, but they believe no one will actually go in. This is why they designed it for organization to occur after entry. if itbecomes a preformed activity, the event will almost never fire, and be un attemptable for the vast majority of players.

which is what its currently becoming.

the whole of eureka has always been designed with a public, show up and attempt these bosses paradigm. BA is meant to be similar but with higher stakes.

now its clear, for our servers it has not succeeded, but the solution, for what they were attempting is not to have better tools for organizing 48 people outside the instance, thats actually the opposite of the goal of the content.

they want open world people to be able to attempt a difficult encounter, fairly shortly after entering hydatos, this is supposed to be and endgame fitting the type of player who enjoyed eureka's open world format. Its supposed to be fairly common to attempt, though rarer to perfectly complete.

BA would work if you could actually get 56 players interested in the place into the same instance reliably. It generally takes several hours before so much as even a shard run is able to form without Discord from my experience.

Maybe they could have some kind of match-making toggle that allows people who actually want to do it be placed into the same instance.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

BA would work if you could actually get 56 players interested in the place into the same instance reliably. It generally takes several hours before so much as even a shard run is able to form without Discord from my experience.

Maybe they could have some kind of match-making toggle that allows people who actually want to do it be placed into the same instance.

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this is primarily because people believe it can only succeed in a premade, and most of the organizer types end up self grouping. I saw about 18 people shouting for ba lfg, but only 5 people entered the portal when it was time. Also, not every BA is planned to be a success.

a queue to join might work, although its no the greatest design, because its how people are used to doing things in this game. That said the probably wanted to actively avoid this feeling like another queue duty finder activity.

its not working for us, but i hope they can figure it out, because it would be pretty great if you could attempt this content as easily as you could a zuzu/louhi/pene fate for something.

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Originally Posted by Celenia

Nah just make it the party inside BA clear ozma, all outside get ozma clear. Make people have reason to support better and allow people with high chance of clearing it to go in. (Just make 1 achievement for this (like thank you support team))

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I really hope that this is sarcasm. Because I adamantly disagree that anyone outside of the BA group that is actively killing Ozma deserve to get the same achievement while they stand around AFK at the Bunny FATE or the town Aetheryte doing nothing.