What if the new expansion doesn't a healer or a tank

The reason to add tanks and healers aren't so more people will play them, its because those that already play them can try out something new (DPS moving over is a side effect, and should not be the intended effect. Just like adding DPS isn't intended to move people over from tanks or healers). By this logic why add any jobs at all?

I would be disappointed if no new healers (don't play enough tanks to comment) are added (if nothing else I would love new AF gear to look at). There's only so much you can play a single job before wanting to try something new, even if you still love the role. I love healing, but with only three options it gets stale after two expansions. If SE doesn't add new jobs then I would like to see radical new mechanics added to the current ones. I want to see WHM get stuff like auto-raise and incredible damage centered raid utility, not to mention a Lily rework. I want to see RNG-less draw mechanics and on-the-fly stance dancing for AST. I want to see revamped pet AI, new pet skills, maybe even 4 Aetherflows at once and skills costing 2 Aetherflows for SCH. Not saying these are needed or even good but just stuff to shake up the classes drastically. If SE wants to preserve current class identities, something I'm not going to blame them for, then please add a new job.

I don't want to see Stone V, Aero IV, OGCD heal, a useless trait and a single new interesting skill for WHM being the only thing it gets in 5.0 for example, if new healers aren't added. I don't want a statement explaining away new tanks or healers due to "focusing on balance" again. They had a whole expansion to do that already. If they can't think up a decent concept to implement then they should just come out and say it. The balancing excuse can apply to any role in the game as stated by a previous comment, why is it always tanks or healers getting the shaft?

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Originally Posted by Mikazuki

I'm still quite new but I disagree, the concept of tanking and healing is not complicated and I don't believe there is any reason to make them simpler. What makes them less desirable are people's attitudes towards the class' performance by a player. A lot rides on any tank or healer and it's how people react to mistakes made by tanks/healers puts them off playing.

So the saying goes, with great power comes responsibility; at the moment I believe that responsibility is outweighing the benefits of playing the class, especially when they could get put down and bad mouthed in every roulette (I know this is not likely the case in FCs and raids so much). As I said though, I'm still new and not even hit 50, could it really get that more complicated? As long as fight mechanics are known I don't think it will.

TL;DR - Tank and Healing does not need to be made simpler. Perceptions and bias' do.

In terms of the topic: I'd love to see a new Tank, there's so much talk of one so maybe 1 tank and 1 DPS would be kind :)

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Some could argue that 'responsibility' is only as lopsided as it is because only Tanks and Healers can have their mistakes noticed by other players without additional metrics.

DPS players seem to have more complicated/intensive rotations to perform, but people can't just see their mistakes, unless they themselves are very good at the role.



Personally, I always strive to do my best whatever role I'm running as.
Though, I've not done tanking in anything other than dungeons...

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Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

Some could argue that 'responsibility' is only as lopsided as it is because only Tanks and Healers can have their mistakes noticed by other players without additional metrics.

DPS players seem to have more complicated/intensive rotations to perform, but people can't just see their mistakes, unless they themselves are very good at the role.



Personally, I always strive to do my best whatever role I'm running as.
Though, I've not done tanking in anything other than dungeons...

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Actually the difficulty in a duty for a tank and healer can easily be impacted by other party members.

Examples being that a healer can be easily overworked when a tank is horribly undergeared or DPS are constantly taking more damage than they should be due to not avoiding AoE mechanics or tanks having difficulting holding hate on multiple enemies because DPS either decide to intentionally pull more enemies or they go ham on different targets and refuse to use skills to reduce their enmity.

I main as a tank. I would like to see another tank for no other reason than another class I enjoy playing.
Its down to play style of why people play tank or healer. I can see why fewer and fewer people play tank and healer. Mistakes are out for everyone to see. There are also many players that like to give the healer and tank a hard time (trying to take hate, ignoring mechanics so healer has to heal them more, etc).

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Originally Posted by Zeromon

The reason to add tanks and healers aren't so more people will play them, its because those that already play them can try out something new (DPS moving over is a side effect, and should not be the intended effect. Just like adding DPS isn't intended to move people over from tanks or healers). By this logic why add any jobs at all?

SNIP

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Thank you. New jobs are not designed to entice people to play that job, they are there to give people options in how they play their game. People who main healers/ tanks deserve new options just like DPS players. I wish people would not use that a reason why we don't need another job. You have people who faithfully play these roles and it's annoying to the think we shouldn't get new jobs because new people may not play them.

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Originally Posted by SirSaber

People don't like to Heal even less to Tank in MMORPGs so people think that those who Tank don't need more Jobs to do so

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That's because it's an artificially enforced mechanic, just like "classes".

FFXIV's thing is it's jobs without having to make 12 characters to play them all. Retroactively adding classes like Mabinogi did only pissed off the playerbase, because nobody asked for it, and it seemed like the producer at that point wanted to turn mabi into WoW.

A game that has no classes, really should allow the player to define how their character is, however that is 100% impossible to balance since every dungeon basically has to be a stamina test, and it becomes a requirement to use pots. You should not be able to pot your way out of a dungeon's difficulty. If you meet the ilevel for the dungeon, you should be able to complete the dungeon.

The Tank-Healer-DPS mechanic is no different in this regard, you should not be able to have a healer tank, or a tank operate without a healer. This is where FFXIV is failing. Because of "meta" gameplay about trying to minmax DPS, tanks and healers are not allowed to do their job as the developers intended. But they also can't design content so that they can only do their job because either the job becomes boring, or the healer and tanks have to pick up the slack of underequipped or ineffective DPS. However the solo content requires every job to be capable of DPS, but never be a tank or healer except in their job storylines.

Did you know in V1.00 you could play the storyline without ever having a DPS job? You could play the storyline as a crafter, and everything that would have involved combat as a DoW/DoM instead involves something non-combat (Parley.) That was unfortunately lost in the 1.x to 2.x transition. But it shows you that the developers are not designing main storyline content for healers or tanks either. If the developers want players to play their roles, in combat content, they need those roles to be relevant in the storyline, and they're just not. The main storyline is designed around the player being a DPS, and if you happen to main a tank or healer, every combat quest take twice as long.

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Originally Posted by Mikazuki

As I said though, I'm still new and not even hit 50, could it really get that more complicated?

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get back to us when you're juggling 30+ buttons :)

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Originally Posted by XiXiQ

get back to us when you're juggling 30+ buttons :)

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White Mage have 21 skills + 5 role, Paladin have 27 skills + 5 role, if I counted right. Out of those skills, there are those that can be completely unused depending on the run (like Raise or Clemency), have use very scarcely (Protect, Tempered Will, on some runs/with some skill levels the Oaths, Esuna) or should technically be used, but forgoing their use may not have much impact (Cover). Then there is Hallowed Ground which is there, but its cooldown makes it unusable more than once or twice in a run.

There, your easy tank and healer with sub-30 buttons to push (and many of em having pretty fine-chunked cooldown, so few of those skills would get used only once in a given battle/every few battles).

DPS have similar level of "easy to do, hard to master" and they are widely played. Most of that is because players like dealing damage, the high damage numbers, and don't like sacrificing these numbers. There are potential healers or tanks that don't play these roles simply because there is no class with a concept they are interested in. If the next tank and healer will be carbon copy of the current tanks/healers with a small bit of flavor added on top once again...of course it won't really make much of a difference beyond giving the current tanks/healers something new.

As it is, only the DPS have significantly different play styles among them. They really need to make some unique healers and tanks. Not 80% copy, 20% flavor. Difficulty or lack of it thereof is secondary, if not even less important than that.