Dark Knight and Incoming Live Letter 4.2 on 12/15/17

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Originally Posted by Crater

Okay but if I only have a stack of apples, and you have a stack of apples and a stack of oranges, and presumably we want things to be "fair", then at the very least, my stack of apples needs to be as big as your stack of apples combined with your stack of oranges. Right?

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Ostensibly.. Yes. But that would assume you like apples just as much as oranges, and we know that's not really the case :p

I mean I'm not for or against it one way or the other. Just pointing out how I see it. OK, war and pld have abilities used in their main rotation to help maintain aggro, and drk does not. But drk's main aggro combo is *potentially* twice as potent as the others. It's just more or less a wash IMO.

I don't think Salted Earth is a good place for that, considering that it's a DoT. Plunge or (a buffed version of) Dark Passenger would work better.

I'd be more interested in fixing Power Slash as a combo, though. It should be buffed to be comparable to Butcher's Block. Skull Sunder gives the same BG as Maim and has 10 MORE potency; Spinning Slash has 70 potency less MP than Syphon Strike on top of 30 less potency. Butcher's Block gives 10 less BG than Storm's Path but deals 10 MORE potency; Power Slash is not only 10 less Blood than Souleater, but causes your DA to disappear with no potency gain.

Edit: it would be a wash if Power Slash wasn't so terrible. Spinning Slash should give the same MP as Syphon Stroke (remember there's still a 30 potency loss there), and Power Slash should gain 140 potency from DA just like Souleater (remember that you're still missing out on 10 Blood there).

That way, DRK is still the only tank that has to give up potency for enmity, but the potency they lose is small and the enmity they gain is huge, so there are advantages to go with the disadvantages.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Ostensibly.. Yes. But that would assume you like apples just as much as oranges, and we know that's not really the case :p

I mean I'm not for or against it one way or the other. Just pointing out how I see it. OK, war and pld have abilities used in their main rotation to help maintain aggro, and drk does not. But drk's main aggro combo is *potentially* twice as potent as the others. It's just more or less a wash IMO.

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Its not a wash, you give up dps to do that combo and even more to get it to do double. If you need to sneak in a few extra to make up for missing aggro in your dps rotation then you are losing dps, which is very unequal.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Ostensibly.. Yes. But that would assume you like apples just as much as oranges, and we know that's not really the case :p

I mean I'm not for or against it one way or the other. Just pointing out how I see it. OK, war and pld have abilities used in their main rotation to help maintain aggro, and drk does not. But drk's main aggro combo is *potentially* twice as potent as the others. It's just more or less a wash IMO.

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But that is the 'choice' for a drk. War/pld will generate agro weather they need it or not.

My idea of Dev mind:
Pld: Circle of scorn is up. Guess ill hit the button. Medium damage. Medium Enmity.
Drk: Hey im OT and don't need enmity. Let me trade that DA power slash for DA BS and 'a LOT' of damage and 'zero' enmity.
AlsoDrk: Hey whm is healing almagest! I need enmity! Let me DA that enmity! DA PS for 'no damage' and 'a LOT of enmity'

RealDrk: DA the highest pot action always and forever to try to keep up damage with pld/war. Why do I feel so squishy and low enmity!?

The concept I still maintain is very good. The implementation is a little undertuned.

They balanced astro because they lock you into a stance for the fight. Real time ability to shift your stats around is very tricky to not over or undertone. It snowballs in the hands of great players REALLY fast to if you can real-time optimize vs a static set of skills like war/pld.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Its not a wash, you give up dps to do that combo and even more to get it to do double. If you need to sneak in a few extra to make up for missing aggro in your dps rotation then you are losing dps, which is very unequal.

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Each tank gives up dps to do their aggro combo. It's just PLD and DRK are affected more because potency difference is huge between threat/damage combos and also because their MP generation is hampered.

But even with "enmity" creep or whatever you want to call it, it's irrelevant because Shirk. If your OT is catching up it doesn't really matter.

If aggro was more of a problem in this game it might add some value to DAPS. But since that's largely not required it becomes an unimpressive ability with obscene cost.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

But even with "enmity" creep or whatever you want to call it, it's irrelevant because Shirk. So even if you OT is catching up it doesn't matter.

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I agree, enmity doesn't tend to be that big of a deal. The problem is in principle, I brought it up because it's just another area Dark Knight is dead last. And it's being ignored on ALL fronts.

Another sort of functionally irrelevant but depressing bit of information is the SSS dummy HP, something I've brought up a couple times in other threads. Most of Dark Knight's dummies have the second lowest HP total of all classes, next to Astrologian. Why? This information doesn't affect real fights, but it's really depressing when over and over it seems that Dark Knight was designed purposely to be last for reasons that I'm not sure are even real reasons anymore.

The complete silence on this front is quickly surpassing the treatment of Paladins in Heavensward, as even as dark as those days were the team tended to imply they understood and were trying (although mostly failing) to rectify this. For close to half a year now the dialogue on Dark Knights has been either treating them completely invisible, or by stating they don't have any particular thoughts on the matter.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Each tank gives up dps to do their aggro combo. It's just PLD and DRK are affected more because potency difference is huge between threat/damage combos and also because their MP generation is hampered.

But even with "enmity" creep or whatever you want to call it, it's irrelevant because Shirk. If your OT is catching up it doesn't really matter.

If aggro was more of a problem in this game it might add some value to DAPS. But since that's largely not required it becomes an unimpressive ability with obscene cost.

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No where do I claim that it isn’t a dps lose for the other tanks. However, to do what the other tanks do for free Dark has to invest, shirk is great, but not always up when you want it. Aggro creep happens, but much more manageable on warrior and paladin.

And finally here is where apples don't equal oranges. As both Paladin and Warrior I have been able to pull and maintain hate with absolutely no enmity combo because of oGCD modifiers. You can also do it on dark knight, as you can probably guess, its harder.

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Originally Posted by Crater

PLD does not have the highest tank DPS; WAR does.
PLD does not do the highest burst damage; WAR does.

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PLD does nearly identical DPS to WAR. At 95th percentile it averages ~80 dps less than WAR. That's 80 DPS when tanks are doing 3400, and when the entire group is doing 25k+. That's an incredibly insignificant gap. It's smaller than the difference between WAR and DRK in HW, and that was already a small gap.

You bring up burst a lot, but it's nowhere near as relevant as you think in Stormblood. Phases in Savage are all based off time instead of HP percentages thanks to people complaining about phase skipping in fights like A11S and Zurvan Ex. Outside of Unending Coil (which most people aren't going to clear and I have no experience with) burst damage isn't that relevant.

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Originally Posted by Crater

PLD does not have the strongest personal mitigation; WAR does - and that's Deliverance vs Sword Oath. Shield Oath Paladin folds like wet tissue paper compared to a Defiance Warrior.

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I disagree, WAR has better cooldowns but PLD has blocking that works on everything and Sheltron works outside of tank stance. PLD feels incredibly tanky in either stance thanks to those changes. It's great for tanking both bosses and adds. I don't know which of them objectively mitigates more damage in a proper run with a low amount of mistakes, but in my experience PLD is very good at surviving and isn't harder to heal.

Before you bring up Holmgang, in my opinion it's overrated in Stormblood. The two things Holmgang is mostly used for are suriving tankbusters without a cooldown and surviving mechanics that should be a one shot because of debuffs/stacking/etc. Holmgang is a lot less valuable for the first one because PLD and DRK both got low/no cost mitigation skills that let them survive those tankbusters. Sheltron/Intervention and TBN can completely replace Rampart or Sentinel on a tankbuster. Using Critical Hit as an example, it does about 67k unmitigated. Awareness reduces that to 45k, Intervention reduces that to 40.5k, TBN reduces that to ~28k. Sure, you could Holmgang that, but a PLD/DRK combo has just easily survived it with no DPS loss and with all their actual cooldowns still available for autoattacks and adds.
The second situation is where Holmgang is still good, but in Omega Savage there weren't many opportunities to use Holmgang to survive a one shot. It only showed up in O4S where a PLD/DRK combo could use Hallowed/LD on almost all the same mechanics. A PLD/DRK combo can use them on 2 of the Thunder IIIs on Exdeath and 3 Delta Attacks/2 Double Attacks on Neo Exdeath. Swapping one of them out for a WAR would only let you invuln the third Thunder III on Exdeath, which people have already been skipping for a long time.

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Originally Posted by Crater

PLD does not have the best enmity generation; WAR does.

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Bringing up enmity as a balance problem is honestly a joke. None of the tanks have any problems with it at all. You don't bring a WAR because it has the best enmity generation, it's not even worth thinking about thanks to everyone getting access to enmity reducing skills and tanks getting Shirk. The only thing that enmity generation decides is who pulls, a PLD+DRK combo has absolutely no problems with enmity compared to a group with a WAR.

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Originally Posted by Crater

PLD has the worst mobility of all the tanks; WAR has the best.

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What does mobility contribute to? Just DPS, and even with Onslaught WAR still barely beats PLD. Tempered Will might have a 3 minute cooldown, but PLD also has Holy Spirit to actually do decent damage at range (for example during Black Holes on Exdeath) while WAR/DRK can only use Tomahawk/Unmend.

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Originally Posted by Crater

PLD doesn't have costless, off-GCD stance swaps; WAR does.

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WAR has off-GCD stances, but they're not costless. Defiance locks you in for 10 seconds, it removes the crit buff from Deliverance, it removes access to WAR's strongest skills and the skills unique to Defiance consume resources that WAR wants to keep for Deliverance. Want to use Unchained? That's going to use up your Inner Release for the next 2 minutes. Want to IB for the mitigation? One less Fell Cleave when you leave Defiance. And to use your self heal you need to be in tank stance unlike Clemency. It hasn't been a problem in Stormblood yet, but if we get a fight like A2S with lots of adds WARs will be choosing between HP or TP from Equilibrium.

Grit/Shield Oath can be dropped without a GCD (just that tiny delay waiting for the GCD to be available). Sword Oath can be reactivated when the PLD has to move away from the boss. And let's not forget that Defiance is a weaker tank stance than the others thanks to how the healing increase works. It wasn't really a problem in ARR because the only healing abilities were percentage based, but each expansion added more and more abilities that don't get buffed by Defiance at all which means that if you do swap to tank stance, you'll need more healing. It really sucks for abilities like Tetra, Asylum, Lustrate, Excogitation, Essential Dignity and Earthly Star to heal noticeably less on a WAR. No, WAR stances and stance swapping isn't a direct upgrade to PLD's/DRK's, it has its own advantages and disadvantages.

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Originally Posted by Crater

There is exactly one arena in which PLD is stronger than WAR - party mitigation - and even there, WAR's party mitigation tool (Shake it Off) is at least as strong as the strongest party mitigation tool PLD has (Divine Veil), and the usefulness of PLD's party mitigation kit falls off a cliff once you get past DV and Sentinel/Rampart-buffed Intervention.

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At least as strong? Shake it Off is weaker than Divine Veil unless you consume 2 cooldowns. It has a shorter cooldown, but PLD has a whole extra party mitigation skill so its mitigation is still up more often if it's actually needed. Passage of Arms might not be used a whole lot when farming, but 15% raidwide mitigation at the cost of 1 or 2 GCDs is great when learning a fight or when things go wrong. Intervention is a really good skill, both the regular 10% that can be combined with other skills like TBN for a bunch of free mitigation and the buffed version that you mentioned that can let the other tank completely ignore popping a cooldown. A buffed Intervention can be up for almost every single Twinbolt in in O1S so the MT doesn't have to use a cooldown at all. I don't know why you're completely ignoring Cover, it's great now that it works on both damage types and has built in mitigation. It can let you avoid tank swaps because it transfers debuffs to the PLD too, and it makes some mechanics incredibly easy like Aero III/Earthshakers during Almagest in O4S. Cover has a ton of potential to fix mistakes, more than anything WAR/DRK have and sometimes better than what a healer can do. Then there's Clemency, a heal that's about as strong as Equilibrium that also works on other people. Sure, you want to avoid using it just like Passage of Arms, but it's always there for the times when you really need it. It's buffed by Convalenscence when self healing (which feels better than using Berserk during Defiance to buff Equilibrium) or heals the PLD for 50% if they target someone else. It's a powerful skill that can do a lot to make fights easier to learn/clear for the first time/recover from mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Crater

PLD has weaknesses; WAR does not.

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I'd say it's the opposite. PLD is great in every situation with a skillset that lets it do a lot to help the group, sometimes at a DPS loss, but WAR is mostly restricted to just taking/dealing damage and barely does that better than PLD. There's a reason why most groups on FFlogs have a PLD, and why groups are usually PLD+WAR or PLD+DRK. WAR+DRK is the least popular combo for a good reason: they're both worse than PLD.

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Originally Posted by Launched

they're both worse than PLD.

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This guy gets it

And this is exactly why Warrior buffs are back on the line and Dark Knight in 3rd place becomes pushed farther and farther down. This is what SE listens to, apparently.

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Originally Posted by Launched

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And if the dev team is reading I hope they read this. This is the problem with continuously creating super tanks. This is why people get upset about tank balance. Two years of working on it, we get paladin super tank, the new mandatory choice. Instead of finding a balance between the remaining two, one got buffed while the other was ignored. And its 3.x all over again, except dark is the new paladin. Offers little to groups and is eclipsed by what the other two can bring. Sure you can run it, you can even get world first, but it offers no advantage to groups like the other two do. We already see the numbers switching, we see people being asked to change mains for groups, all people are asking is to improve Dark Knight so that it can compete with Warrior and Paladin.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

No where do I claim that it isn’t a dps lose for the other tanks. However, to do what the other tanks do for free Dark has to invest, shirk is great, but not always up when you want it. Aggro creep happens, but much more manageable on warrior and paladin.

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It ain't just dark knight that loses mp or potency loss it's pld.

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Originally Posted by Jukebox12

It ain't just dark knight that loses mp or potency loss it's pld.

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I'm not sure why you are quoting me.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

No where do I claim that it isn’t a dps lose for the other tanks. However, to do what the other tanks do for free Dark has to invest, shirk is great, but not always up when you want it. Aggro creep happens, but much more manageable on warrior and paladin.

And finally here is where apples don't equal oranges. As both Paladin and Warrior I have been able to pull and maintain hate with absolutely no enmity combo because of oGCD modifiers. You can also do it on dark knight, as you can probably guess, its harder.

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This quote is in the context of using dark arts to amp up the enmity of the power slash combo. The point of it is that to break even with the enmity combo and dps rotation of Warrior and Paladin you need to expend dark arts. This further bolsters the idea that to break even dark knight's balance requires dark arts use. The problem is that when you need to break even on mitigation, enmity, and dps but can only choose 1 to invest in fully, you will generally come up short, especially in a main tank senario where you need to choose at least two. In dps dark knight can invest all its energy into dark arts, but the job is already behind there even with full dark arts usage.

To be super clear it is definitely a dps loss on all tanks to do enmity combo. However, Warrior and Paladin can avoid their entirely. Dark Knight can as well, its just more difficult since the job has no oGCD enmity modifiers, and requires more group effort. All that extra effort and group coordination and what do you get for it? You get to be closer to paladin and warrior! What a reward!

You know... I’ve been having a really tough time trying to find a job to play after the release of SB. I’ve always played Dark Knight mostly and on and off PLD and WAR in HW, but now that I know PLD and WAR can do DRK’s job better and are more satisfying to play, I wonder why the job exists currently.

Many others like it how it is but those aren’t really justifications that the job is doing well. Staying up till 6 am, waiting for the live letter to begin and sit through 2 hours only to know that,

1. DRK didn’t get mentioned.
2. WAR did (hooray for blm)

Leveling other jobs currently and about to hit my 7th class to 70 and I still can’t find a replacement for the hole in my heart that’s been caused by Dark Knight’s upsetting class performance.

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Originally Posted by SoulSkyheart

Leveling other jobs currently and about to hit my 7th class to 70 and I still can’t find a replacement for the hole in my heart that’s been caused by Dark Knight’s upsetting class performance.

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This is poetry right here... and I really mean that(despite me not being really good at poetry it is a great art nonetheless)... so dark... so beautiful... so fitting...

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Originally Posted by SoulSkyheart

Leveling other jobs currently and about to hit my 7th class to 70 and I still can’t find a replacement for the hole in my heart that’s been caused by Dark Knight’s upsetting class performance.

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Agreed what's the saddest part is I so badly wanted my favorite class to get some better attention and sadly it didnt and now it just doesn't seem to fit in anywhere....the fact that when I farm V4s on dps and we get a DRK tank everyone is like "eww go war or pld which is sad" :(

I'm relatively new to the game and I main Dark. I can't seems to see why dark is inferior in comparison to other tanks. The only real experience i had when Dark is not wanted is Shinryu extreme - and that is because of the living dead and how healers refuse to heal dark. in terms of mitigation, I find the blackest night is very flexible (i cant say for the other two tanks, I only have them on level 60). In terms of DPS, well, I am still struggling to find the optimal rotation so cant really comment on that. Then again maybe i need to play PLD/WAR at level 70 to really feel the differences

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Originally Posted by NozDeathlos

I'm relatively new to the game and I main Dark. I can't seems to see why dark is inferior in comparison to other tanks. The only real experience i had when Dark is not wanted is Shinryu extreme - and that is because of the living dead and how healers refuse to heal dark. in terms of mitigation, I find the blackest night is very flexible (i cant say for the other two tanks, I only have them on level 60). In terms of DPS, well, I am still struggling to find the optimal rotation so cant really comment on that. Then again maybe i need to play PLD/WAR at level 70 to really feel the differences

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Not really, even during levelling the gap between DRK and the other two in mitigation is noticeably large.

The issue with DRK is simply that anything it can do the others do better and it even lacks some of the tools the others have.

E.G. PLD has sentinel 40% mitigation 3min CD, WAR has vengeance 30% mitigation + counter 2min CD, DRK gets shadow wall, 30% mitigation 3min CD.

PLD has divine veil, WAR has shake it off, DRK has nothing.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Not really, even during levelling the gap between DRK and the other two in mitigation is noticeably large.

The issue with DRK is simply that anything it can do the others do better and it even lacks some of the tools the others have.

E.G. PLD has sentinel 40% mitigation 3min CD, WAR has vengeance 30% mitigation + counter 2min CD, DRK gets shadow wall, 30% mitigation 3min CD.

PLD has divine veil, WAR has shake it off, DRK has nothing.

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In addition to this missing utility/not bringing something meaningful and unique as a utility and holes in its mitigation, Dark Knight has the lowest dps when either actively tanking or not actively tanking. There is really no reason to bring a dark knight to a raid other than enjoying the class and its aesthetic.

Dark is adaptable (as you noted), and plays that way. But that adaptability to make split decisions really has no value when the class either breaks even or falls short on almost any metric you would want to measure a tank on.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

All that extra effort and group coordination and what do you get for it? You get to be closer to paladin and warrior! What a reward!

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I gotta say, thanks for the chuckle this morning lol

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Originally Posted by NozDeathlos

I'm relatively new to the game and I main Dark. I can't seems to see why dark is inferior in comparison to other tanks. The only real experience i had when Dark is not wanted is Shinryu extreme - and that is because of the living dead and how healers refuse to heal dark. in terms of mitigation, I find the blackest night is very flexible (i cant say for the other two tanks, I only have them on level 60). In terms of DPS, well, I am still struggling to find the optimal rotation so cant really comment on that. Then again maybe i need to play PLD/WAR at level 70 to really feel the differences

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Definitely would need to play the other 2 to feel the difference. And what Chronos is trying to point out, you might feel decent in mitigation as DRK with TBN but it's costing you in DPS (more TBN = less Dark Arts). But if you do more DA it's costing you mitigation, etc etc

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

I gotta say, thanks for the chuckle this morning lol

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I'm glad!

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Definitely would need to play the other 2 to feel the difference. And what Chronos is trying to point out, you might feel decent in mitigation as DRK with TBN but it's costing you in DPS (more TBN = less Dark Arts). But if you do more DA it's costing you mitigation, etc etc

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This 100%. People can quibble about exactly what set of circumstances will turn it into a small gain or loss, but lets not get bogged down by those details. Here's the deal no other active mitigation comes with such a set of circumstances to make its active mitigation a gain. As a paladin main tank or off tank I will frequently pop off sheltron just to get shield swipe for a 150 potency gain. If I find myself on warrior in defiance I will pop off Inner Beast just because it is a dps gain to use when in defiance, granted as an off tank this will never happen. It is only dark knight which has a web of conditionals to when TBN will be worth using if it will pop. Given that it has the inherent risk of not popping this web of conditionals just should not exist, this should just be a gain like every other active mitigation.

It is like they actively made dark arts = 140 potency, then promptly forgot this opportunity cost when designing the rest of dark Knight's kit.

I am super sad DRK is being ignored but I really enjoy playing it so I can't just boycott it.... x.x

I main all 3 tanks, and after messing around A LOT in savage, I actually think DRK mitigation is pretty good if you use TBN almost on CD and figure out the proper times where it will actually pop, it's even.chunky dps gain if it crits/dhs/or is used during a buff window. Dark Mind is useful in 3/4 Savage content so I can't really give an honest opinion but perhaps it should be all damage, but remove the DA effect.
Though Its damage is slightly lacking, not as bad as I originally thought, but still somewhat noticeable. Honestly DRK could be set with just some small damage buff on its main combo, but I'd welcome any changes, such as a shake it off/veil equivalent.

I just want to hear their reasoning on why SE thinks that DRK is ok right now. Of course, I think there's more than enough proof to prove otherwise, but I want to hear their side of the story, so we actually have something to dispute instead of being shot down. I just want to know why WAR has more focus when DRK is struggling as much as it is.

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Originally Posted by Aadrian1234

I just want to hear their reasoning on why SE thinks that DRK is ok right now. Of course, I think there's more than enough proof to prove otherwise, but I want to hear their side of the story, so we actually have something to dispute instead of being shot down. I just want to know why WAR has more focus when DRK is struggling as much as it is.

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They have said, but werent very clear or good at explaining their answer.

We can only assume they mean that since DRK is "capable" of beating the hardest content, and ppl actually brought DRK there, that there isnt enough bias against DRK to justify changing it.
Next is that more people play DRK than WAR, which means there's not much reason to adjust DRK, but instead the job people play less.

The only questionable thig, is that while SE has said "if its good enough to clear content, its good enough" they still made adjustments to those jobs in the past, which id odd they havent now.
Plus even if they ignored DRK, it would have been fine, if the other job competing with it, wasnt being messed with in the mean time.

I am so confused by SE. There are countless threads about people saying how bad DRK is in comparison. SE's justification is DRK clears all content so it is ok, but then WAR who has also cleared all content gets adjustments.

Its been growing on me in the last few days (and the radio silence of the dev dont help me) but could this be a conspiration from SE to turn drk into a dps so they only have to balance 2 tanks because they realize they cant balance 3?
ps I'm not a dps wanting to play drk atm i mostly pld because i feel bad for bringing my drk in content even in dungeon.

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Originally Posted by garret_hawke

Its been growing on me in the last few days (and the radio silence of the dev dont help me) but could this be a conspiration from SE to turn drk into a dps so they only have to balance 2 tanks because they realize they cant balance 3?
ps I'm not a dps wanting to play drk atm i mostly pld because i feel bad for bringing my drk in content even in dungeon.

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DPS balance is much, much worse...

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Originally Posted by garret_hawke

Its been growing on me in the last few days (and the radio silence of the dev dont help me) but could this be a conspiration from SE to turn drk into a dps so they only have to balance 2 tanks because they realize they cant balance 3?
ps I'm not a dps wanting to play drk atm i mostly pld because i feel bad for bringing my drk in content even in dungeon.

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Honestly. If they did that then I will on the spot quit this game. Not only did they fail the tanks with not delivering tank balance in lieu of a new tank, but end up TAKING one away?
You take one that away that was really really cool in it's theme and leave tanks with boring generic theme of "Shields, shields, shields!"? So that DPS players will literally have every popular flavour they can dip into?

Final DPS 14
A DPS Reborn.

@Cabalabob, @Chrono_Rising, @whiskeybravo

thanks for the explanation, I am starting to see what is everyone talking about!

Actually I was wondering the same thing. And I wouldn't quit to be honest. I think it'd be a blast if DRK went DPS. Class lore wise they should be from a FF perspective. I love the class and the concept to death so I'm good either way they go!

In order to transfer Dark Knight into a DPS, they’d need to make a complete overhaul. Like 1.0->2.0 overhaul on the class. SE isn’t going to do that, that’s like making another class and they said that making a class mid expansion is likely going to kill the dev team.

But here’s something I don’t get... SE’s approach to tank adjustments show that they want the tanks to be in line with one another. But... how is Dark Knight in any way shape or form close to the other two tanks? It’s really really confusing to me how they compare Warrior and Paladin to Dark Knight when in fact it’s nowhere near close to being similar.

Dark Knight doesn’t have good party buffs like the other 2 tanks.
Dark Knight doesn’t have as much mitigation as the other 2 tanks.
Dark Knight is not close to other 2 tank’s DPS.

Can they draw us a map please? I’ve been lost for 6 months.

I was thinking along the new expension reveal. "Since no one play drk anyone it will be overhaul into a dps for 5.0

PS Pls SE DON'T DO THAT!!!

In other news; the December 2017 census states that DRK now has less active players than WAR.

I for first am an active drk just to keep my plus 1 as I did for paladin back in 3.x....play off meta only!