Why do so many statics seem to be missing healers? What can be done to solve this?

Double post - deleted

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

I stated it before but I'll state it again, if you want a learning party, start one. Learning parties don't magically appear from people already working on other content. Learning parties generally appear because someone wants to learn.

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Amen to that. When I want to learn something, I don't wait for a learning group to start - I make one. And I kinda like teaching/mentoring so once I know how a thing works I don't mind dropping into a learning group and spreading what I know. But I've also come to realize that by and large people are passive and reactive, not so much proactive.

A lot of people complained about the wait to find an XP party in FFXI. I didn't wait, I grabbed what was available and dragged them off to the leveling zone, usually took less time than the average DPS queue here. One can get a lot more done faster if they'll just step up and lead - even if they don't necessarily know what they're doing at first.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

I stated it before but I'll state it again, if you want a learning party, start one. Learning parties don't magically appear from people already working on other content. Learning parties generally appear because someone wants to learn. This mentality about complaining about the lack of them and not creating them is starting to become the PVP naggers that try to harass people to go healer (if they want a healer in PVP, queue as one).

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im not saying people cant start a learning party but it seems like half the people dont know what "learning party" means... id say 80% of the time after 2 wipes people just drop without a word... this happens over and over and over... thus nobody ends up learning anything... im not complaining personally since i really only join learning parties to help others get it done... just playing devils advocate here and giving a possible reason why statics are lacking healers...

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

im not saying people cant start a learning party but it seems like half the people dont know what "learning party" means... id say 80% of the time after 2 wipes people just drop without a word... this happens over and over and over... thus nobody ends up learning anything... im not complaining personally since i really only join learning parties to help others get it done... just playing devils advocate here and giving a possible reason why statics are lacking healers...

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People don't know what farm party means, clear party means etc...
As annoying as it is for people to drop with no word it can depend on time commitment. Someone thought they could do 4 runs, but had to leave at a certain time. There is no hard rule to the amount of time someone can dedicate.

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Originally Posted by Levian

Believe me, I remember. I had a much longer post that touched on a lot more, but the forum is currently limiting me to 1k characters a post and I had to cut it down to 1/6 the content while still trying to grt at the heart of the matter (for me).

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You can get around that by posting something below the 1k limit, then immediately editing it. Edits don't have that limit. :)

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

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It's normal (these days) for people to jump headlong into content that's beyond their skill level, realize they're in over their head, and back out. Realistically you should have the same percentage of healers passing the learning phase and stepping into statics as you do tanks/DPS. The problem is more like to stem from a pool of healers that isn't large enough to start with.

Tanks and healers are always scarce, most other games I've played have 1 healer to every 4 or 5 DPS, and they're still a bit scarce. FFXIV demands 1 healer for every 2 DPS, and even without looking at census data (if they publish it at all) I can guarantee you %25 of the game's populace isn't regularly playing either WHM, SCH, or AST as a main.

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Originally Posted by Levian

Tanks and healers are always scarce, most other games I've played have 1 healer to every 4 or 5 DPS, and they're still a bit scarce. FFXIV demands 1 healer for every 2 DPS, and even without looking at census data (if they publish it at all) I can guarantee you %25 of the game's populace isn't regularly playing either WHM, SCH, or AST as a main.

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IIRC YoshiP said it was around 22%. Of course, some portion of that likely doesn't want to and is doing it because of the pressure that extremely long DPS queues create.

I tend to think it'd help the health of the game somewhat if they went to a base party of 5, since you can fit 50% more DPS per tank and healer. You'll still have DPS queues and they may not even get a ton shorter, but you'll have fewer people doing the other roles only because they don't have time to wait rather than because they actually want to. (That said, it'd be a huge and no doubt extremely difficult coding change.)

Well, maybe something in the pipe for the next expansion, but I agree that base groups of 5 with 3 DPS to each tank/healer is a better representative of the people that want* to be in a certain role. Obscene queues forcing people into healing slots that don't want to be in them is far less than ideal imo.

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

im not saying people cant start a learning party but it seems like half the people dont know what "learning party" means... id say 80% of the time after 2 wipes people just drop without a word... this happens over and over and over... thus nobody ends up learning anything...

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What I've done is that every time someone joins a party (that I'm leading of course) I ask them how experienced they are with the fight, and then I keep track on that info for everyone, saying for example that "ok we have 3 who have seen enrage, 3 on first mindjack, and 1 at the beginning of last phase". I'll also say "let's set our goal as practicing this phase and aiming to clear this part". Then everyone is on the same page and they'll know what to expect from the party. I've found this to be helpful, but of course you can't control others, and if someone wants to leave they will leave, for whatever reason.

Edit: Another thing that I've found helpful is that when there's a wipe, or something has been messed up more than once, I'll acknowledge it by writing it in chat "we seem to be having trouble with this mechanic, please remember to X when Y happens :)". In my experience, people get more easily frustrated when the group just keeps wiping but no one seems to be doing anything to it. But it's important to do this without starting to point fingers in a bad way.

It's all initiative like Taika says.

On my main's free company going back to Midas Savage, we had a clique of us raiders, and we were all part of different raid groups. We would get together to pick a night or two each week where we were mutually available and host A5S/A6S learning and weekly page clear parties for "raid-ready" members of the FC or those who didn't have a static but wanted to get weekly pages and didn't want to deal with PF at the time.

For me, growing the free company with more savage players was a fulfilling experience because that increased the pool of players we could make a parties with every week. We spend a lockout or two sometimes but we've taken people from learning to clear. For us raiders, we also get more experience on different roles and jobs. Ultimately I would have loved to taken some through A7S or further into A8S, but this was considerable time taken already. Our intent was to get them to experience savage and want to pursue it further, or get into a permanent raid group.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Don't you think that's equal parts new game syndrome and rose tinted glasses making those memories seem super awesome?
*snippity snip*(

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Oh, the older generation wasn't perfect. The things you mentioned did happen.

What I was referring to is the overall tone of today. Everything nowadays is about efficiency. Getting together to have fun has taken a backseat to getting through the content as quickly as possible.

That's a pretty fair observation, can't argue with that.

I wonder if some of that is down to the way in which content is almost entirely menu fed now. Gone are the days of gathering up in the world to do all sorts of stuff ranging from Hydra/Chimera right up to Coil/Savage content as well as all the putzing about and faff that that came along with that. Simply accessing everything from a menu without ever having to leave the inn kind of loses something and dents the community feel of the game in some respects.

As Tech states above, there are some FCs with more of a community emphasis on content, in some respects I wish I had an alt leveled so I could help more, as is I'm usually waiting till the end of the week before pugs are willing to sacrifice loot and let me tag along to help.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

What I was referring to is the overall tone of today. Everything nowadays is about efficiency. Getting together to have fun has taken a backseat to getting through the content as quickly as possible.

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Cross-world tools like Party Finder, and to a lesser extent the Duty Finder, are a big problem. In older games and times past, game servers tended to develop their own communities. You helped people and got to know each other. Now? Log in, hop in a PF group, get carried while you watch Netflix, collect loot (anything more involved is decried as "inconvenient" by the QQ brigades). There are no consequences for not trying your hardest or even for being an outright jerk, because you'll probably never see those people again. This can partly be traced back to the design decision for party compositions. I don't know who ever imagined that there would be a tank and a healer for every two DPS players; it really should have been 1/1/3 or something.

But mostly it's all Blizzard's fault. They started a race to the bottom and killed the genre.

Yeah, and steady compounding the problems. Things like realm sharding giving players all the negatives of a dense populated server with none of the benefits etc. And of course radio silence or outright derision when players lodge a complaint about a design decision.

Kinda makes you wonder what the market would be for a well built (emphasis on that phrase) MMO in the grand old style. Or if any developer will at least see fit to give an adequate balance to challenging open world content and on-rails quick-run party-finder content.

It has everything to do with it. The reason FFXI and early Wow players didn't behave like Halo & Call of Duty players was specifically because the people they partied with today we're very much likely to be in their party the next day. Performing well and being a general joy to be around might be the difference between being invited to a group the moment you login the next day, and having to sit with your flag up for an hour - or longer. I knew a few characters that couldn't get into a raiding guild, or even a pug group for the entire duration of WotLK because of their in game behavior. I also know a guy that was blacklisted personally, and he had alts that he didn't dare step out of line on for fear they'd get blacklisted like his former main. He didn't find it as funny as I did that he had to make another rogue to raid on.

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Originally Posted by Trunks

Cross-world tools like Party Finder, and to a lesser extent the Duty Finder, are a big problem. In older games and times past, game servers tended to develop their own communities. You helped people and got to know each other. Now? Log in, hop in a PF group, get carried while you watch Netflix, collect loot (anything more involved is decried as "inconvenient" by the QQ brigades). There are no consequences for not trying your hardest or even for being an outright jerk, because you'll probably never see those people again.

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This wasn't any different in the past, because while you had people on the same server, if those bad players didn't care about you then they didn't behave very good. Just like in real life. Some don't care if you are their neightboor or something. You'll always find those kind of people, in real life, in games, in the past, in the present and in the future. Nothing can and will change this.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

I think you guys are not being fair. Investing time in someone not knowing if is going to stay or not is not very appealing, people disappearing without saying anything or don't show up at raid times is a very common issue. You can't blame RL these days if they don't want to take any chances. Sure, is just a game but no one want to waste their free time.

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If you won't risk it, you never get an raid group. Ofc people will join and leave as they see fit, but thats part isn't it? You can't force people to stay with your group. This may sound harsh, but you just have to deal with it and move on. People who want an good fc, ls or static can find it. It just take times and a few trail and error to get one.

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Originally Posted by Levian

I knew a few characters that couldn't get into a raiding guild, or even a pug group for the entire duration of WotLK because of their in game behavior. I also know a guy that was blacklisted personally, and he had alts that he didn't dare step out of line on for fear they'd get blacklisted like his former main. He didn't find it as funny as I did that he had to make another rogue to raid on.

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This has an very high potential of mobbing, if you think about it.
Person A: "Hey this guys, *inser name here* did this to me. Guys unite and don't let him in any partys and when he talks, insult him!"
Person B: "Holy, i won't play with him anymore" (<- doesn't care if what person A said is true)
Person C: (may or may not had made an mistake, may or may not be sry, but can't do anything about it, because person b and his gang destroy is reputation, (further).."

Of couse he could have behaved very, very bad and in their opinion deserved it, but with this mindset you will always have an high risk to behave bad towards people that are a) sorry or b) didn't even do anything bad and mob them. There is this risk, because you'll never know who is telling the truth and who isn't. I am glad the ff14 community in general is good and i've never encounter something like this in the game. Yes, there are some guys i blacklisted or guys that did make me angry, because of their behaivor, but at the end of the day you'll find those guys everywhere, since we all are humans and different.

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Originally Posted by technole

It's all initiative like Taika says.

On my main's free company going back to Midas Savage, we had a clique of us raiders, and we were all part of different raid groups. We would get together to pick a night or two each week where we were mutually available and host A5S/A6S learning and weekly page clear parties for "raid-ready" members of the FC or those who didn't have a static but wanted to get weekly pages and didn't want to deal with PF at the time.

For me, growing the free company with more savage players was a fulfilling experience because that increased the pool of players we could make a parties with every week. We spend a lockout or two sometimes but we've taken people from learning to clear. For us raiders, we also get more experience on different roles and jobs. Ultimately I would have loved to taken some through A7S or further into A8S, but this was considerable time taken already. Our intent was to get them to experience savage and want to pursue it further, or get into a permanent raid group.

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We did the same as a free company with mostly ex fights and then started to do some savage run. It was and still is fun to see people you like making progress and getting better at the game, while just having fun playing the game. of course as you said, this helped me aswell in the sense that i played different role in these type of contents and got better at the game in general. If you are an healer (or player in general for that matter) and you can't find patient, friendly people in pf than search for an fc or static, where experienced players help others out and most importantly you can laugh and get along well with them. I had a few fc before i found the people i know now and over the time (talking about the game, real life stuff) we became rl friends.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

I think you guys are not being fair. Investing time in someone not knowing if is going to stay or not is not very appealing, people disappearing without saying anything or don't show up at raid times is a very common issue. You can't blame RL these days if they don't want to take any chances. Sure, is just a game but no one want to waste their free time.

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There's people that dream about doing things because they fear failure, and there's people that do things because they know failure is going to happen and do it anyways but get things accomplished.

If all you're going to do is dream, that's all you get. Dreams....

It doesn't make them come true.

@ era1Ne - No more so than it does anywhere else. The guy I know personally wanted to see what it felt like to Ninja loot something, so...he found out. And there's a big difference between a single person spreading misinformation, and a person spreading information with an entire raid party of 23 other people to corroborate their story. Especially when that raid party is comprised primarily of alts and new recruits from one of the top raiding guilds on your server. By and large he said - she said is treated as just that because everyone's met a scheming liar and we've all also had our bad days when we behaved poorly, so there's room for forgiveness (usually).

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

There's people that dream about doing things because they fear failure, and there's people that do things because they know failure is going to happen and do it anyways but get things accomplished.

If all you're going to do is dream, that's all you get. Dreams....

It doesn't make them come true.

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Well said. You also can't find people who help you, if you don't ask about or search for help. I have made my experience in statics as an healer and while i am fairly good at healing, i still ask healers for help, because you can always improve and sometimes they know something you didn't even think about. With that said, they of course won't come to you and offer help, because you want something from them as a stranger. You need to ask and then you a) get help or b) get told about different community outside or inside the game to help you out. What you shouldn't do, despite some bad exp sit there and think everyone is inpatient, insults people and so on.

This is the same for raid groups. You can find a raid group, which is patient with healers and as them need time to get better. You have to describe your goals and then search for a group. Ofc world first groups for example won't let an inexperienced healer join, but this doesn't make them bad persons, because they just got different goals for their raid group. But most of them will help you out, if you ask them nicely outside of their raid. But and i can't stress this enough, YOU have to ask. Those guys or worse - but still experienced - healers like me won't stay around in limsa screaming "Can i help, can i help!!!".

FFXIV is designed to have more new players going in than old ones cancelling their subscription. This impacts the healer community for raids quite a bit as newer players are always going to be less likely to take high responsibility jobs in new raids.

The sub model also means that balancing and adjusting healers to facilitate their use in harder content is no longer on their list of concerns. Even if someone at 'raid-level' cancels their subscription because they're unhappy with some aspect of it, they're going to be replaced with 3 new players anyway. This exacerbates issues people have with healers, and thus the number of people willing to use them gets lower and lower as the newer players get to Savage, realise healing isn't very fun or engaging, then unsub, and the cycle continues.

It's also worth considering that no job has ever had its foundations redesigned. Despite having its abilities refurbished, Bard has always been a fast-paced, proc-oriented physical DPS with some utility and will never be anything else.

The same goes for healers. If you want to just heal or support the party, your only option is to play a different game. This cannot and will not ever change, so for those who enjoy the healing role but don't enjoy the heavy-DPS orientation they have, there's really nothing to do but just not play the role and play a DPS where at least it does what it says on the tin (you can't DPS too much and can always keep doing it, you cannot do the same for healing or support)

Honestly I think the healer population is likely to continue dwindling slowly; personally I think many will agree with me in that they feel almost like an afterthought compared to how well designed and interesting DPS mechanics are. Not to mention you have real options as a DPS

Want to be a heavy hitting, low utility DPS? Play Samurai or Black Mage
Lower DPS but a focus on supporting the party? Bard, Red Mage
A mix of decent DPS and some utility? Ninja, Dragoon, Machinist, Summoner

You can continually expand on this too. Want to deal heavy damage with the option to support the healers? Red Mage.
Supporting the party defensively while needing fast reaction times to hit prices as soon as they're up? Bard
Fast-paced damage dealing with lots of positionals and some utility? Monk (let's pretend Riddle of Fire isn't a thing)
Slower-paced damage with charge times and massive numbers? Black Mage
Faster-paced damage with some charge times, slightly lower numbers but more utility? Summoner

What options are there for healers?
White Mage- Dot based DPS with one DPS filler spell to spam, easy MP management on account of Lillies, Assize and powerful oGCD healing.
Scholar - DoT based DPS, one DPS filler spell to spam, easy MP management on account of Aetherflow and powerful oGCD healing. Has a pet, but only two abilities that actively influence it, one is a standard oGCD buff and the other makes you give up control of the fairy (Union)
Astrologian - One DoT, one DPS filler spell to spam, easy MP management on account of Celestial Opposition being used to extend MP restoration effects (Lucid Dreaming, Ewer) in MP-intensive situations, card buffs useable on the target every 30 seconds (theoretically). Less powerful oGCD healing, but this is equalised by healing potency increases provided by Sect

When you look at the foundations of the healers, all three are very similar. It's hard to find motivational n to play a job where you're often doing the exact same thing as your counterparts. Obviously all DPS do the same thing (deal damage), but there are many different end-goals and reasons to do so. Building proc stacks, increasing gauges, hitting positionals, linking together abilities in a way that makes them feel worthwhile to use like Aetherflow abilities on Summoner allowing use of Summon Bahamut.

As a healer, you're always going to have to default to dealing damage when healing output isn't required, which can be very often in some content. A damage dealer in this situation is using their abilities as best they can, building gauges, gaining access to new, interesting abilities for dealing damage and considering the ways in which they can push out more damage within the confines of their job mechanics and the situation.

This isn't the case when you do the same as a healer. You precast shields or regens and can always predict when damage will need to be healed. You default to dealing damage, as you always do, but it doesn't give you anything for doing it. You don't build a gauge that gives access to more powerful healing or DPS abilities, nor do you build procs or have to consider the order and potency of the abilities you use in relation to enemy positioning, job UI mechanics or make situational inferences. For example, AoE drops on the Black Mage, their Astral Fire is about to run out because they were pushing as much Fire IV as possible for some reason. If they run out of the AoE, they can't cast Fire to refresh AF. So you can make a decision based on what's going to be best. Is there someone close-by you can teleport to, with enough time to cast Blizzard and keep Enochian ticking? Do you have Triplecast and run-and-gun? Perhaps your MP is quite low, so you can use your Umbral Heart on Flare to use the rest of your MP while moving, then Transpose to refresh your timers (I'm aware this is probably very inefficient, it's just an example).

As a healer, what is there to consider? The AoE is targeting you, you don't need MP because it should be managed properly, but you have no job mechanics or aspects related to your damage. Sure, you can still Swftcast your filler spell or use something instant, but the outcome offers nothing. You're expected to deal as much damage as possible but with no incentive to do so outside of shortening the encounter time. I'm well aware that dpsing is technically the ultimate and most powerful form of mitigation available to healers, but personally I don't see what the point of the healer role is if dealing damage is essentially a better option than healing in many cases. This entire issue is exacerbated in Savage content where you have to completely
maximise your damage output as a healer or severely limit your progression potential.
I'm not saying that Raid content should be easier, but surely the stress that a healer is exposed to in Savage souls come from, well, healing mechanics? And not just the same DPS check we've seen in every single raid fight since Turn 2 (Did Turn 1 snakes have an enrage? I think their damage dealt gradually increased through the fight).

Tl;dr: people are aversive to playing healers in high level content because the bottom line is that you aren't really a healer, but you don't get the benefits of being a DPS either. Maybe if they changed the role name to 'Support', 'Defensive Caster DPS', 'Off-dps', people wouldn't start playing the 'healer' role only to find out that ffxiv has taken a lot of liberties in how they define 'healers'

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Originally Posted by Connor

As a healer, you're always going to have to default to dealing damage when healing output isn't required, which can be very often in some content. A damage dealer in this situation is using their abilities as best they can, building gauges, gaining access to new, interesting abilities for dealing damage and considering the ways in which they can push out more damage within the confines of their job mechanics and the situation.

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A healer in this situation has to use their abilities as best they can aswell, to open himself and the co-healer more windows to dps and therefore push out more dmg. In some cases when for example the other healer is dead, you need to know how you can save the run with using the abilities to the best of your ability aswell.

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This isn't the case when you do the same as a healer. You precast shields or regens and can always predict when damage will need to be healed. You default to dealing damage, as you always do, but it doesn't give you anything for doing it.

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You get first clears sooner in most cases, skip mechanics, have an shorter fight and for me doing dmg as healer is about optimising my heals and think about ways to be more efficient and an better healer overall.

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When you look at the foundations of the healers, all three are very similar. It's hard to find motivational n to play a job where you're often doing the exact same thing as your counterparts.

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If you play an ast as a whm you are an bad ast, simple as that. You need to keep track of your cards, thinking about usage for your time skills and have some different tools with different advantages.

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As a healer, what is there to consider? The AoE is targeting you, you don't need MP because it should be managed properly, but you have no job mechanics or aspects related to your damage. Sure, you can still Swftcast your filler spell or use something instant, but the outcome offers nothing. You're expected to deal as much damage as possible but with no incentive to do so outside of shortening the encounter time. I

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You have to consider how much, when and how to heal efficiently. Stuff that healers should think about and not have an very complex rotation + healing, because this would make the class very hard. You do dmg to clear fights in some cases, because especially at the first clear mistakes will happen and then the dmg could be to low and you see the enrage timer without healer dpsing. I play tanks and dd aswell and while those have their own ways to optimise and are fun too, healing for me is all about the teamwork and the fun when you optimise your healing and get better and better. In the end this is more fun than playing either tank or dd imo. The dmg rotation for healers in itself isn't very fun, but it doesn't have to be, cause healing the most efficient way already is and this is what healing is about in FF14 imo.

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Originally Posted by PondHollow

I'm in a static that can't find a second healer after the other one went to school, and we're considering poaching our friend whose own static has been, and people from several different statics have approached me.

There are really only a couple things I can think about: make leveling easier, make healers more appealing, and reduce choice constraints like the dread of doubling up.

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It might be due to the healing checks seem to be harder this time around in savage, at least for os4.0 so more healers are switching to other classes. my static groups main whm switch to DPS when he had the chance, but when we struggled to find a replacement healer he eventually switched back just because we couldnt find a replacement healer that was able to do a decent job in his stead.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Blizzard did not kill anything, they just made the genre more popular. If my memory serves me right EQ got like 200k players during his peak. What we now have nothing to do with the tools an MMO offer, you have similar behaviors everywhere. Go ahead and take a look at how dating works today compare to years ago.

You can also take a look at how people prefer to use his mobile device to check social media instead of talking with people in front of them.

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You disagree with me and then proceed to reaffirm the premise of my argument. :confused:

Anonymizing people dehumanizes them, and dehumanizing people is what leads to antisocial behavior. The rapid-fire, easy access nature of a dungeon/raid finding tool, in which you're paired with random people whom you've never met and will never meet again, helps to normalize toxic behavior. It's the same effect in all of those examples you cited. The much-advertised promise of connectivity via the internet and social media has actually had the opposite effect.

As far as the MMO genre goes, Blizzard started this. They sought popularity (i.e., profit) over all else, but popularity does not necessarily translate to quality or health (hence appeals to popularity are a logical fallacy). Of course, someone else probably would've done it eventually if they hadn't, but you get the idea. Video killed the radio star.

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Originally Posted by era1Ne

This wasn't any different in the past, because while you had people on the same server, if those bad players didn't care about you then they didn't behave very good.

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Strawman. Nobody is arguing that people never behaved badly in the past. We're discussing causes, prevalence, and secondary / tertiary effects.

The absence of consequences is the core issue. Communities of every scale are governed by norms and mores ("thou shalt not roll 'need' to sell"), and norms and mores are upheld by collective enforcement. The ability to easily queue into a group with random people and jump from server to server precludes that collective enforcement from occurring. Without those norms, old standards of behavior fall, and none can rise to replace them.

This is decidedly not how things work IRL. If you get fired from all of your jobs for verbally assaulting clients, you're going to have trouble finding jobs -- that's your former employer enforcing a norm on your behavior. If you skip out on debts, you're going to have trouble buying a car -- that's the lending community enforcing a norm. And it's not so easy to just skip town, change your name, and sweep it all under the rug.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

There's people that dream about doing things because they fear failure, and there's people that do things because they know failure is going to happen and do it anyways but get things accomplished.

If all you're going to do is dream, that's all you get. Dreams....

It doesn't make them come true.

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You have become my new best e-friend.

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Originally Posted by PondHollow

I'm in a static that can't find a second healer after the other one went to school, and we're considering poaching our friend whose own static has been, and people from several different statics have approached me.

There are really only a couple things I can think about: make leveling easier, make healers more appealing, and reduce choice constraints like the dread of doubling up.

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Might have something to do with the fact that healers in XIV spend more time DPSing than healing.

It's a rude awakening when you leveled a class called "healer" but spend 90%+ of your time waiting for people to take damage so you can heal it instead of spending your time healing.

But this is entirely a problem with XIV's pacing, especially the rate at which players take damage and the rate at which healers can realistically heal that damage.

If you compare healer potency in XIV to that of other MMOs, it's kind of insane: one (non-emergency) heal in XIV can typically bring a tank to near full HP, and even AoE heals tend to be potent enough that 1-2 can bring an entire party from near dead to full.

By comparison, healers in other MMOs tend to have healing rotations, where they're constantly pressing buttons to heal up smaller portions of damage instead of waiting for a party member to lose 3/4ths of their HP before recovering most or all of it with a single spell.

Again, this all comes down to how damage is dealt in XIV, which is balanced around the 2.5 sec GCD which dictates that constant, regular damage would be impossible for healers to manage due to only being able to cast a healing spell once every 2.5 seconds.

The end result is that, while DPS and tanks both have rotations that keep them constantly engaged and interested in what's happening, healers just cycle through a few DPS spells while they wait for damage to happen, after which they quickly heal it up before returning to DPSing.

Healing is a total snooze prior to static raiding, and that's abysmal.

If you find you dislike healing and can't figure out why, it's because healers in XIV aren't so much healers but are more "mages that occasionally top the party off while DPSing".

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

If you find you dislike healing and can't figure out why, it's because healers in XIV aren't so much healers but are more "mages that occasionally top the party off while DPSing".

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yeah and that's exactly why i quit healing in 3.1 - i was raiding as WHM in ARR but in HW the time i spent dpsing skyrocketed because of the new off-gcd heals WHM got and the overall damage people took seemed lower than in ARR.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

If you find you dislike healing and can't figure out why, it's because healers in XIV aren't so much healers but are more "mages that occasionally top the party off while DPSing".

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On the other hand, this is also the reason why so many players do like playing healers in XIV but not in some other games. :)

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Originally Posted by Tint

yeah and that's exactly why i quit healing in 3.1 - i was raiding as WHM in ARR but in HW the time i spent dpsing skyrocketed because of the new off-gcd heals WHM got and the overall damage people took seemed lower than in ARR.

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I leveled AST to 70 because I thought that the card buffs mixed in with the responsibilities of healing would combine to create an engaging experience overall. When I found myself sleepwalking through content, I gave up and began leveling DPS classes instead.

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Originally Posted by Taika

On the other hand, this is also the reason why so many players do like playing healers in XIV but not in some other games. :)

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But this is a thread complaining about how hard it is to find healers for statics in XIV.

I realize that healers and tanks will naturally be harder to come by in MMOs, but XIV seems to have a harder time with healers period and I feel like that's because of how "healers" can expect to spend the majority of their time not even doing what they thought they were leveling the class to do.

I burned out on playing a healer because it was so incredibly boring, even as an AST where I had to simultaneously manage card buffs, and gave up and switched to DPS.

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Originally Posted by Taika

On the other hand, this is also the reason why so many players do like playing healers in XIV but not in some other games. :)

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Yeah. hard to tell how the numbers tilt between the two.

All forums regarding healers and questions/answers:

Healers shouldn't be dpsing! Kick those players!
Healers should be dpsing and healing! Kick those players!
Healers should not regen before pulls! Kick those players!
Healers should regen before pulls! Kick those players!
Healers are terrible in endgame!
Why are there no healers in any content?

This is pretty similar with Tanks, but add a few skills and minus a few things, and you get the same questions lol.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

But this is a thread complaining about how hard it is to find healers for statics in XIV.

I realize that healers and tanks will naturally be harder to come by in MMOs, but XIV seems to have a harder time with healers period and I feel like that's because of how "healers" can expect to spend the majority of their time not even doing what they thought they were leveling the class to do.

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The experiences vary, though. I've never had trouble finding healers for statics or PF groups, although of course I've mained one myself for a long time. But right now, when I've been trying to get some content done on healer, I've found groups lacking room for me in that role and had to go as a tank or DD instead. If anything, most PF groups seem to be waiting for tanks.

Back in my day, we had to get 40 people together for Vanilla WoW raids, which alone could take an hour (or several), just to enter content that would take equally (usually more) hours to see any kind of progression, AND would have to train guildies up because it was the only way to fill said raids the next time. A whole day could sometimes be drained just to end up killing 1/3rd of a raid (if training), or equally as long with core-groups to complete it for a chance to try and win an item through filthy DKP systems. Now it's "What, you don't know the fight? Well screw you, we'll wait for someone who does (for an hour, or however long it takes)".

If it's not population then it's typically community. I'm a DPS healer, yet I typically avoid savage et al as my FC is a graveyard and party-search tends to throw you into groups who automatically assume anyone who signs up knows what they're doing (to a tee) purely because they meet an ilev requirement and had the balls to join. I don't know any of the savage/higher content as I have no group, friends or active guild-mates, and I see no real reason to sign up and walk into a waiting stranger-flame-fest who won't allow any time to learn the hard way. After all, it's usually the only way to get first-hand experience, and why a lot of the so-called 'bad healers' will tend to wait until such content enters the practice/roulette phase before they get to see it (unless they can do so with understanding FC members). You can watch as many 'guide' videos or read about the fight as much as you like (older ones went on as long as 10-15+minutes of explanations), it just won't beat seeing the fights for yourself and getting into a rhythm/groove.

Meanwhile, I can continue being my awesome DPS-self in casual rouls/Rabanastre and feel good about myself. Given I enjoy it (and can get my classes some half-decent gear through it), that's fine by me. Yet... I was a raider in WoW and I do hate being unable to see content. I typically play 1-2 days and, due to being capped at everything, log out for a week. I could be exploring the higher content with that spare time, yet I just cannot be bothered 'enduring' a sign-up process that will invariably lead to gear checks, pickiness, flames, and no time to learn/improve if those boxes add up to inexperience-wipes because nobody seems to have the time for that any more (outside of FC groups, probably).

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Originally Posted by RopeDrink

Back in my day, we had to get 40 people together for Vanilla WoW raids, which alone could take an hour (or several), just to enter content that would take equally (usually more) hours to see any kind of progression, AND would have to train guildies up because it was the only way to fill said raids the next time. A whole day could sometimes be drained just to end up killing 1/3rd of a raid (if training)

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To be fair a 1/3rd of the raid could be carried through MC if you had around 15ish good dps/tanks/healers doing their jobs properly (and geared to a certain point, true). I distinctly remember my priest and another mage being the sole dispeller/decurser being fed Innervates whilst the rest of the healers ran into walls or exploded. Good times. Would I do it again now? Hell no. Like you I'm quite happy doing chill things in FFXIV without that kind of stress.

That was MC. Try carrying that same group through, say, Patchwerk. MC wasn't TOO bad but the likes of Nefa or Naxx were a nightmare depending on route.

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Would I do it again now? Hell no.

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That's the blessing and the curse. I may have been a raider, yet I never liked it as much as the heroic TBC dungeons (pre-nerf, back when mere trash had the power to obliterate tanks in a second unless everyone, DPS/Tank/Healer, were co-ordinating CC and mindful of the party setups before they even went in there, and even then it was going to HURT like hell).

Then I remember the game sliding down the 'casual' path and being a bit upset. First it was the heroic nerfs, then everything else started to become easy. Yes, the above description of vanilla raids was excessive and needed a bit of toning for sure, so it was understandable to a degree, and it's good for the majority seeing as not every gamer is a basement dwelling hardcore grinder with whole days of free time to burn in the raiding toilet -- yet when the easier route become the norm, expectations shift and now people want content to be quicker and less painful in more ways than just time-requirement, because it's somewhat the standard.

Knowing that someone like me, who is sticking to casual content for everyone's benefit (my own included), I see no point walking into a situation where people will think me a timewaster for not having had the luxury to get any kind of first-hand experience in X or Y fight/content. This simply means said groups just have to find another Healer. Sounds small, but this problem adds up in a game where there are actually (supposedly) less Healers than Tanks in general.

Man... It's been 12 years already...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwlwhax3IM4

EDIT: Vid is actually relevant to earlier point. I made a joke-vid out of it for a laugh, but the wipe was to train/show people the fight (back when it was a thing). You can be sure many Healers (like myself) may not be in a position to get a hand-hold from FC members or groups willing to take the chance.

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Originally Posted by Ilyrian

To be fair a 1/3rd of the raid could be carried through MC if you had around 15ish good dps/tanks/healers doing their jobs properly (and geared to a certain point, true). I distinctly remember my priest and another mage being the sole dispeller/decurser being fed Innervates whilst the rest of the healers ran into walls or exploded. Good times. Would I do it again now? Hell no. Like you I'm quite happy doing chill things in FFXIV without that kind of stress.

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Hunters turning on auto shot and going AFK for the entire fight on stuff like Geddon. The struggle was real as a Holy Priest.

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Originally Posted by RopeDrink

the heroic TBC dungeons (pre-nerf, back when mere trash had the power to obliterate tanks in a second unless everyone, DPS/Tank/Healer, were co-ordinating CC and mindful of the party setups before they even went in there, and even then it was going to HURT like hell).

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Yes totally agree; Shattered Halls, Shadow Labs - even Black Morass was tightly tuned and a challenge in their first incarnations. That's what FFXIV (and WoW) now lacks; challenging content that is easily accessible outside of 'raiding' - baseline content that is challenging and requires people to perform their specific roles to a set standard.

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Knowing that someone like me, who is sticking to casual content for everyone's benefit (my own included), I see no point walking into a situation where people will think me a timewaster for not having had the luxury to get any kind of first-hand experience in X or Y fight/content. This simply means said groups just have to find another Healer. Sounds small, but this problem adds up in a game where there are actually (supposedly) less Healers than Tanks in general.

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Yes, I'm in the same position. I'd consider myself a seasoned raider but I've got that issue where I'm looking for a group to learn the fights with without being a burden to the group. Also even after a few months, I'm still not 100% sure I like the twitchy (and often laggy) 'dance' that is raiding in FFXIV. But hopefully It'll click at some point.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

The struggle was real as a Holy Priest.

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Holy Priest tears are only rivaled by Mage tears :)

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Originally Posted by Dzian

The big problem with static is usually the times. Quite a few of the ones I see expect people to static the same thing 4 nights a week. For 3-4 hours a night..

I think that's where a lot of the difficulty finding people comes in. Cos group's set there demands so high.

I'd probably be more inclined if group's did 1 or 2 nights a week. For a couple of hours. But more than that nah..

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This is the exact reason I don't do savage content (I heal and tank). I play to relax, not have a second job.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

The big problem with static is usually the times. Quite a few of the ones I see expect people to static the same thing 4 nights a week. For 3-4 hours a night..

I think that's where a lot of the difficulty finding people comes in. Cos group's set there demands so high.

I'd probably be more inclined if group's did 1 or 2 nights a week. For a couple of hours. But more than that nah..

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I'd actually like to give my two cents on this too. I heal and tank, but I can't participate in endgame because people need players at the most impossible of times. I figured that in a game where you pay a subscription, most would be working the kind of hours where people need late-nighters for raiding, but for some reason, most of them are looking for players that can raid in the middle of the afternoon or somewhat late shift. And I'm just working.