Isn't playing WHM optimally going completely against what SE wants healers to be?

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

People misquote this a lot. The Master of Magicks says "When you've healed all there is to heal, there may be time to weave in some offensive magics.". I'm at work so I don't have the screenshot I've made of this and that's all I can remember of that part. But they go on next to say something about making sure you fulfill your healing role first. So it's all packaged as something optional, which is the way Yoshi-P has always addressed it.

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The quote you gave doesn't read as "optional". It reads as "know your priorities".

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

The quote you gave doesn't read as "optional". It reads as "know your priorities".

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The word "may" is never a requirement. The statement is leaving the choice in the player's hands. It's not in any way, shape, or form the game saying anyone *has* to do the action.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

The word "may" is never a requirement. The statement is leaving the choice in the player's hands. It's not in any way, shape, or form the game saying anyone *has* to do the action.

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So, according to you, the quote is saying having downtime is optional and it's up to the healer to decide if they want to have time where they don't need to heal?

Also, I'm not sure why whm is being singled out in the topic. Playing any tank or healer optimally goes against what SE wants them to be.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Compare healer gameplay from FFXIV to the likes of Warhammer Online or even World of Warcraft and it's a very different kettle of fish. Both of these games had a wide variety of healing jobs with Warhammer's roster being particularly notable (A melee DPS healer that was both balanced and trememdously enjoyable to play, whodathoughtit). Whilst I suspect that Yoshida is rather hamstrung by SE's financial department, my sympathy only goes so far. I refuse to believe that he wouldn't be able to hire a couple of proven players out of the JP community to help spruce up and invigorate the class design team somewhat.

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I gotta disagree here. Shaman/Archmage was, in almost all ways, inferior to Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine, while Runepriest / Whatevertheotheronewas were just not as good as WP/DoK.

And the 'melee' portion of that healer (DoK/WP) was significantly weaker than just chalice heal spamming.

Unique.

But not effective.

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Originally Posted by HoodRat

So, according to you, the quote is saying having downtime is optional and it's up to the healer to decide if they want to have time where they don't need to heal?

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No, it's saying that in that time you aren't healing, you can choose to weave in offensive magics. It does not say that you have to. This is exactly the same as Yoshi-P always says. In fact, in his interview with Mr Happy he went out of his way to say that he thinks healers should never feel required to DPS. We can do it if we want to, but we should remember our main role.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

I gotta disagree here. Shaman/Archmage was, in almost all ways, inferior to Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine, while Runepriest / Whatevertheotheronewas were just not as good as WP/DoK.

And the 'melee' portion of that healer (DoK/WP) was significantly weaker than just chalice heal spamming.

Unique.

But not effective.

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Fair comment, was this a later thing? My Rune Priest never saw use outside pvp and I didn't stick around after the first month or so as I couldn't find a UK guild to join =(

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

You must not know the history of FFXIV if you question that the devs might want to make a good game.

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XIV has been going for 7 years, with the current dev team working on it for 4-5 of them.
Between working on the same project for that long and having to listen to a company that wants to monetize the game as much as possible and a demanding playerbase that is extremely scattered in opinion, can you honestly say that the dev team has the same passion for the game as when they started?

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

No, it's saying that in that time you aren't healing, you can choose to weave in offensive magics.

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You said

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

"When you've healed all there is to heal, there may be time to weave in some offensive magics."

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

The word "may" is never a requirement. The statement is leaving the choice in the player's hands. It's not in any way, shape, or form the game saying anyone *has* to do the action.

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May be time to dps =/= may dps.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

This is exactly the same as Yoshi-P always says. In fact, in his interview with Mr Happy he went out of his way to say that he thinks healers should never feel required to DPS.

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You're right, Yoshida has always said healers shouldn't have to dps. People quote that a lot, but for some reason those same people don't say anything about how Yoshida has never said healers should choose whether or not they want to waste time overhealing or standing idle.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

We can do it if we want to, but we should remember our main role.

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No one is saying you shouldn't remember your main role. And if we go back to

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

"When you've healed all there is to heal, there may be time to weave in some offensive magics."

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\

it sounds like, in the current situation being addressed, no healing is required. So if no healing is required, why exactly do you need to remember your main role is to heal?

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

monetize the game as much as possible

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I think it just needs to be stated that one of the top MMORPGs still around has monetized hotbar space. FFXIV is the least-monetized high-end MMO on the market. WoW lets you buy and sell sub-time. In GW2 you can buy legendary weapons. And SWTOR... just, lol.

To a remarkable degree, SE has resisted market forces which are pushing all games in that direction (in the most recent Total War title, you had to buy blood and gore effects as "DLC"). In western markets, disposable income is increasingly concentrated in fewer hands, and eventually all games will go all-in on the cash cow model. The fact that FFXIV has not moved much to monetize is a testament to the devs' commitment to keep this game as egalitarian as possible, I feel.

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Originally Posted by Trunks

And SWTOR... just, lol.

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Off topic, but I particularly enjoyed the part where I had to pay money to have feelings.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Fair comment, was this a later thing? My Rune Priest never saw use outside pvp and I didn't stick around after the first month or so as I couldn't find a UK guild to join =(

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Warhammer had balance issues all over my play stint, which as from release to a few months in. It wasn't unique to Rune Priest in that regard. Warrior Priest/ DoKhaine were oddly the most balanced of the counterparts, but also the clear best choice for the healers. Far reaching AoE heals spammable with chalice offhands mean t they didn't do damage, but nothing could kill their party.

I'd point towards Guild Wars 1 and its expansions for healing variety done well, between Healing and Protection monks, Ritualists, and the various skills thrown in across Warriors, Paragons, Rangers, Necromancers, and Mesmers, which were limited but all had their own little niches of use.