Solution to healers not dpsing in dungeons

I always dps'd and debuffed bosses in other games when healing as I could but I am clueless here about healer operation so...I say, let them do what they are comfortable with.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

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Must be your datacenter then, because I've not seen a single tank like this to date when I Q up as WHM (which I've been doing the past several days due to trying to get it up to 70).

But, about the time I say that, I'll end up with somebody like this.

I just don't understand how it's even possible for someone to be that badly geared as a tank. You have access to any dungeon you could want. You are *guaranteed* a drop (except weapon) from all 51-59 and 61-69 dungeons. You get XP by clearing dungeons close to your level even without Roulette bonus.

Why in the *bleeep* would someone not farm dungeons for gear? Seriously.

The OP is part of why I've hung my cane and started to study the blade

Solution to healers not dpsing in dungeons:

pick your battles and realize in the grand scheme of things this just isn't worth the energy

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Originally Posted by Phii

That's a bit of a stretch.

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My husband has arthritis. He plays healer. Not a what-if.

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Originally Posted by Viperz

If healers refuse to dps in dungeons well I'm going to use full str accessories and stay in deliverance, sword oath and no grit no problem.

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It's always someone else's fault, right?

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Originally Posted by Rhymenoserous

Everyone should strive to not suck as nothing more than common courtesy to the groups they are with. "I'm lazy so you have to suffer" is no way to go about really anything.

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Um, no. People should put in that effort if they choose. You do not get to choose how others play the game. They owe you nothing. Nothing.

New to the game play DPS now but will be switching to healer eventually is there a target forwarding option (You click tank and cast through them).

I think I will quit Healer too. Especially since I just had a Tank who blamed me (Ilvl293 and WHM), to heal less than a 310 AST during an Expert run where I had barely time to look away from the HP Bars and he apologised for "watching the news and getting distracted". He rushed into the last boss battle while one of the DPS was into a CS. I waited outside with the DPS, because I think it's pretty upsetting if you're doing a dungeon for the first time and then you are going to be locked out of the final battle (And it will take so much longer on the boss too). Of course it was my fault that he stood in the boss fight alone - "You shouldn't be causing wipes only because someone is in an CS" - Err, excuse me, I asked you nicely to not rush into the boss fight yet and obviously waited outside. And then blamed me because the dungeon took 27 mins instead of 20. I'm out of words. Are there any reasonable tanks still out there? As it seems I am only getting those with huge ego issues and rude gestures.

More group-think "everyone must play exactly as I like" or ELSE. We need SE to intervene, we need a "solution". No, you don't. If the healer is keeping everyone alive, they're doing their job just fine. Particlularly at a time where many are still learning all the new fights, or still levelling up, this kind of OP is not helpful. At all.

I think of all the customisations we've lost to this mentality. Adjusting a small portion of your stats, or adjusting accessories, spirit-bonding in dungeons, now kicking people out of dungeons for spurious reasons (the most usual one being "they aren't playing to my precise spcifications"). The next thing to go will be materia - because if someone has melded so much a single piece someone disagrees with, SE need to step in and restrict everyone. again. Dungeon queues are long for a reason - because too many people are trying to cram their own spurious rules onto every single tank or healer. (and dps, but at least there are enough of them to go round)

Here's a novel idea. Play how you want - and respect the fact that that is everyone else's right as well. If the job is getting done, there is zero reason to complain.

SE does need to intervene. The community seems as toxic as never before, and it is just sad to see. Plus, I can foresee many people giving up the game because of such behaviour. They do need to punish the ones kicking for no reason. Being abusive, and mean to others. Do not just tell them "No, no, here, sit 30 mins in the corner and calm down." because that is not a real solution, and it will drive the "nice people" away from this MMO sooner or later.

I don't think they're saying you have to DPS while the tank pulls 3 groups of mobs. Cause clearly, if they do, you'll not just be standing there. You'll be semi spamming cure/2 or the equivalent. But once some of those mobs die, usually there's still at least three that are around half health.

If you have enough MP after healing through the heavier part of the pull, regen should be more than enough for the tank to not die. When it's just 3 mobs left and they're at half health or lower, I have let the tank drop below 50% while we finished off the last mob. I had essential dignity ready, though. But rarely have I ever needed to use it in such a case.


That said, if I'm at less than half MP and lucid dreaming isn't going to be back up for the next pull, then I will just stand there. As AST, I likely won't be doing nothing though. I'll either be setting up my next cards, or if they're already set up, I'll be trying to make them more optimal. If they're already optimal, then yes. I will just stand there. I've had people argue with me that, even in that case I shouldn't just stand there. Cause the faster the mobs die, the quicker we'll be out of combat and the sooner my MP will refresh. Nice theory. Doesn't always work like that though.

Sorry but in PUGs I expect the healer to do one thing and one thing only, keep me and the DPS up, presuming I do my part. Anything beyond that, in a PUG, is gravy. In statics, nowwe can discuss what my FC mates do and don't do, because as a team that's a decision we make.

You can PF a duty roulette and say "requires healer to dps". then if the healer still doesnt dps, kick him.

in a random PUG DF, i don't mind if the healer doesn't dps

I will never tell a healer to dps or yell at a healer for not dpsing in a dungeon because I understand that is not their job and honestly in most cases it isn't really needed. However in ffxiv healers have the ability to put out some really decent damage and using the excuse that I am healer, I shouldn't have to dps or my dps isn't needed is not really a great attitude especially if there is plenty of opportunity to do some damage without putting your party in danger. In world of warcraft most healers don't even have many opportunity to dps and when they do it is so insignificant it doesn't change anything. Just my opinion and again I am not saying if you don't dps as a healer you are bad or are doing anything wrong.

I once joined an a12s pf. Despite me pulling and requiring no healing whatsoever for literally the first ~18 seconds of the fight, the healers still wouldn't dps, and when I politely asked why, half the party went crazy and got upset at me.

I guess expecting healers to dps when they have nothing else to do for more than 15 seconds is asking too much.

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Originally Posted by Viperz

If healers refuse to dps in dungeons well I'm going to use full str accessories and stay in deliverance, sword oath and no grit no problem.

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If you refuse to tank properly I am going to not heal you? Typical tank thinking they control the flow of a dungeon. Sit down kid, we all know healers are the ones who control groups.

Also, any competent healer would not be phased by your silly attempts to make the dungeon hard.

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Originally Posted by Viperz

If healers refuse to dps in dungeons well I'm going to use full str accessories and stay in deliverance, sword oath and no grit no problem.

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I do wonder what lvl bracket you're referring to. If the healer is lvl 50+, yea I expect them to dps if the situation allows for it. However I am much more lenient on players below lvl 50 as they are likely still getting to grips with the role.

And to be fair nothing in the game actually tells you that you must dps as a healer in dungeons. This is something players invented, not SE. So if a new player has mostly been on their own with no one to tell them different, they may only heal because they think it's all they're supposed to do. That is actually the case for healers in other mmos.

I'm disappointed the solution wasn't "shut up and play the healer yourself."

Yup, seconded to everyone that mentioned STR accessories. You want healers to DPS, well stop expecting them to heal so much because of ineffective gear and maybe they would have more time to do it.

I've healed in 10+ MMOs in the past fifteen years. Among those, only two have asked for heals and dps together--this game and Phantasy Star Universe. In that game it was obvious, though: your 'heal' was one large AOE burst that could be spammed forever as long as you had the PP (their version of mana) to do so. I was a War Techer and used daggers and bows over there.

Ad for this game, I would never have thought to DPS had I not come to these forums, seen all the debates and then tested it for myself. I doubt I am the 'best' at healer dps--regardless of its existence I still care more about keeping a party alive--I will agree that it makes playing WHM more fun and keeps me busy helping the group when healing is not needed. Plus, with the change to cleric stance, the risk involved is pretty much zero.

That said, this is the only MMO where I've ever seen players react in spite about something they want / expect others to do that the game does not explicitly tell them they need to. Let's be blunt--you were gonna use STR accessories anyway: it gets shit done faster. I've read about tanks doing an actual gear strip, removing a piece between pulls for each pull they did not see the healer dps. If you're going for shock value you need to get more creative. XD

As a dpser if we dps are doing our job then any dps the healer throws out not realy going to mater much so you shave 2 or 3 seconds on a pull so what ..... remember this is a game we're all here to enjoy the contents and bash some pixels

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Originally Posted by hawklsd

As a dpser if we dps are doing our job then any dps the healer throws out not realy going to mater much so you shave 2 or 3 seconds on a pull so what ..... remember this is a game we're all here to enjoy the contents and bash some pixels

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Pretty much. All my stone farts do is look pretty and FTR, it takes 3 minutes to regen a Whm MP bar from empty to full out of combat. OP will only need to stare at the screen for 3 minute intervals a few times before you see the flaw in healer dps.
Should I heal on Dragoon too?

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

Pretty much. All my stone farts do is look pretty and FTR, it takes 3 minutes to regen a Whm MP bar from empty to full out of combat. OP will only need to stare at the screen for 3 minute intervals a few times before you see the flaw in healer dps.
Should I heal on Dragoon too?

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Idk. Me doing 1600-1800 overall dps in zurvan (probably 1100-1300 in non add phases) and a coheal doing something similar seemed to help the party allot. Combined two healers make for a 5th dps. Being within a couple hundred dps of an average dps shows how much of a difference and control a healer has/had. A good healer can almost match an ok dps, effectively carrying their dps to meet and surpass checks.

Plus, in dungeons you're aoeing. Healers and especially whms excel at aoe. We outrank tank dps priority. On bosses you should be doing at least 10% of the damage. That's allot of time shaved off.

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Originally Posted by hawklsd

As a dpser if we dps are doing our job then any dps the healer throws out not realy going to mater much so you shave 2 or 3 seconds on a pull so what ..... remember this is a game we're all here to enjoy the contents and bash some pixels

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LOL no... I've seen healers in good runs do 1000+ dps, far more than adequate for the time.

Only stupid healer tricks I see are the ones that rez people and do not heal them and they die in 15 secs when the big aoe bomb comes hehe...amazing. Don't play a healer if you are that clueless. Otherwise, don't dps if you are not comfortable doing so, just keep the raid alive.

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Originally Posted by Besame

Only stupid healer tricks I see are the ones that rez people and do not heal them and they die in 15 secs when the big aoe bomb comes hehe...amazing. Don't play a healer if you are that clueless. Otherwise, don't dps if you are not comfortable doing so, just keep the raid alive.

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It goes both ways. It is also on the person being ressed to be aware of their surroundings, and if a big AoE is being cast/coming up very soon.

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Originally Posted by HoodRat

I guess expecting healers to dps when they have nothing else to do for more than 15 seconds is asking too much.

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i refuse to dps for tanks that won't pop cds during trash pulls like the OP. aka terrible tanks

I'm wanting to pick up a healing class... Astrologian when I reach heavensward content. What level do healers usually contribute dps? Is this usually for 8 man raids and trials?

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Originally Posted by Rosavis

I'm wanting to pick up a healing class... Astrologian when I reach heavensward content. What level do healers usually contribute dps? Is this usually for 8 man raids and trials?

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Normally whenever the party isn't in danger of dying from 2-3 hits is when a healer will DPS(so quite a bit in the older content, a bit less in newer because things are hitting harder now). It is all dependant on your comfort level, the tanks use of defensive CDs, and the DPS dodging AoEs. Most people, if you say you are new to healing, won't expect you to DPS if you're not comfortable with the class.

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Originally Posted by Rosavis

I'm wanting to pick up a healing class... Astrologian when I reach heavensward content. What level do healers usually contribute dps? Is this usually for 8 man raids and trials?

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If youre asking what level healers get damage spells, im pretty sure(though not bothering to look it up) that they all have at least one of them before the first dungeon opens up. As for when a healer can contribute, thats... a whole huge debate. If you know what youre doing(know the fight, know your group, know your abilities) you can find room to cast a few spells in any dungeon/trial/raid. Some fights youll be able to DPS almost the entire time, other fights require a lot more healing focus or have healer-specific mechanics you need to do. My general rule is that you should try to DPS as often as youre comfortable with + like 5%. Pushing yourself a little bit past your comfort point can help you get better(both at dealing damage and at healing) and learn your limits. This also varies a lot based on the group youre with(a tough tank whos good with CD usage and DPS who are good at dodging avoidable damage make it MUCH easier to toss out damage then a tissue paper tank and DPS who dont understand what an aoe even is and insist on tanking the ground), and its something else you can learn to gauge as you play.

If on the other hand youre asking how much damage a healer contributes, the answer varies a little. Generally, in a good setup a healer will do more damage then a bad DPS(maybe as much as an average DPS? this im not sure). Good healer+tank DPS can shave 15-33% off your average run time, and thats something most people can appreciate.

edit : deleted, dont want to even more fuel the fire.