Tanks and healers.

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

Maybe that's some people's argument, but that was never mine. Mine was that you should play efficiently with other people and your skills are not there to look pretty. I do think there's a lot to be said about tank and healer carrying DPS. As I've said I don't make anyone do anything. That doesn't mean I have to be happy when someone is standing there looking pretty for half the time.

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True, but if there only one healer and we are talking about emdgam here, not 4man daily, your never just standing there looking pretty. You're healing almost 24/7, if it a 4man daily, yes you do a lot of standing around, but it's a daily, not a hardcore endgame boss, you can be lazy if you want.

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Originally Posted by Hazuki87

you can be lazy if you want.

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You realize that if everyone took that attitude then your daily dungeons could very well be going 90m each (if you finished). Poor attitude is poor, regardless if it is only a 4 man roulette.

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Originally Posted by Hazuki87

True, but if there only one healer and we are talking about emdgam here, not 4man daily, your never just standing there looking pretty. You're healing almost 24/7, if it a 4man daily, yes you do a lot of standing around, but it's a daily, not a hardcore endgame boss, you can be lazy if you want.

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One of my FC mates has the attitude of "do I have to actually try?" in old content he's already done.

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i always tell xxx or whoever when we get in dun im just liked btw im half assing
crap is too boring after running it so many times

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And this is what my FC master said.

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Every single dps saying that is what makes raiding so god awful T___T

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So yeah, you can be lazy. It doesn't make it okay just because it's easy content though. I'm reminded of this Reddit thread that proves my point.

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Originally Posted by joannaluttrell

You realize that if everyone took that attitude then your daily dungeons could very well be going 90m each (if you finished). Poor attitude is poor, regardless if it is only a 4 man roulette.

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And yet at the end of the day no one can make you do anything you don't want to, you're no one slave. If you don't want to run with slow and casule players make your own dam party and do it with ppl you play with... And stop telling other to play you're way.

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Originally Posted by Hazuki87

And yet at the end of the day no one can make you do anything you don't want to, you're no one slave. If you don't want to run with slow and casule players make your own dam party and do it with ppl you play with... And stop telling other to play you're way.

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Whether you like it or not there is an accepted "standard" of play by the community. The reality is that MOST people in the game do at least try, healer dps included. The argument that takes place on the forums is NOT that you dont get to be lazy or suck when you play. It is a twofold argument:

1 - If you are either of those things listed above, dont be surprised/upset when you get kicked.
2 - Dont come on the forums and promote/defend the things listed above as they are counter to the
communities accepted "standard" of play.

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Originally Posted by Hazuki87

And

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You basically say you can have fun but not others. Then you also say it's okay to do jack shit while others try. I need Google this... ah yes a selfish player.

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Originally Posted by Chronons

Whether you like it or not there is an accepted "standard" of play by the community. The reality is that MOST people in the game do at least try, healer dps included. The argument that takes place on the forums is NOT that you dont get to be lazy or suck when you play. It is a twofold argument:

1 - If you are either of those things listed above, dont be surprised/upset when you get kicked.
2 - Dont come on the forums and promote/defend the things listed above as they are counter to the communities accepted "standard" of play.

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I find the attitude around this on the forums not reflective of what actually occurs in game.
Either way, this argument will never end.... people should just accept that and move on. Neither side is convincing anyone to change their mind.

The problem is at Square Enix's end really. Right now, healer DPS is considered mandatory by the community (and don't tell me Square Enix says otherwise, until they actually start banning people for asking someone to DPS as a healer, then it's OK to ask), and this is because you spend more time chilling than casting if you're not DPSing as a healer (going by default compositions). All the content needs to be made harder. In my eyes, that'd be by nerfing all healing by say... 80% (number can be tuned, I plucked that because I needed a number). Make it so you have to be almost always healing. Or, increase cast cosst by say 500% so you have to spend more time regenning mana. Right now, healing is WAY TOO EASY and that is where the problem stems from. Tanking and healing need making harder by Square Enix if you want this debate to shift away from the tank/healer DPS meta. And I mean a LOT harder.

I actually recently did Expert as 3 DPS 1 healer (I was healer). I didn't get much chance to DPS (if at all), because I was too busy having to heal everyone. And bosses were a nightmare too (Baelsar's Wall). Now THAT is more of what I'd like to see. That sort of difficulty. Then you'll find healers won't be DPSing as much because of the increased challenge. Most pro-DPS-healer people would be OK if the content was made harder such that healers didn't have time to heal.

Thank you all very much for all that constructive feedback and opinions. For the replies that are supporting my opinion and for the ones that doesn't. I Respect all the opinions here and I hope all this information will become useful in some way. Thus I think it's time to stop bumping my thread and move on, since the argument if healer/tank should dps will never end. Stormblood is almost out so let's enjoy it all together. Mic out thanks again. :D

UGH! another "im so perfect and you all are not" thread. do you seriously need this many attention?

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

I because WARs are now penalized for stance dancing. If you need Inner Beast..

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Hmm? What's inner beast? New skill? :D Joking aside, I think as long as Warrior remains designated off-tank I do not think you'll be stance dancing all that much in SB.

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Originally Posted by Hazuki87

And yet at the end of the day no one can make you do anything you don't want to

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Jackpot. In a 4man dungeon, you only have yourself to counterbalance the mediocrity that takes place in that instance. For the most part you have no control of what anyone does in that run.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

You basically say you can have fun but not others. Then you also say it's okay to do jack shit while others try. I need Google this... ah yes a selfish player.

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I mean, I think we should all collectively try to clarify what "trying" means. Can a DPS performing poorly be seen as trying? I don't actually think this is about healer DPS at all anymore. Rather, it's about if people should have to try extra if they don't have to.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

You basically say you can have fun but not others. Then you also say it's okay to do jack shit while others try. I need Google this... ah yes a selfish player.

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No I'm saying you can't make other do what you want just because it work or don't work for you or someone ells. If a heal just want to heal it there right to do so, your not there mon, dad or the one paying for theie game, you have 0 right to tell someone how to play. You want to have fun you team up with like minded players, after all the what FC and LS are for... Funny how that works, you don't q up for a daily and then bi*** at the ppl in there for being lazy. At the end of the day Qing up for a daily is like playing with npc you can't make them do what you want 50% of the time and they always pi** you off. It tha same for endgame if you Q up for a endgame in DF you will have to put up with lazy ppl or ppl that don't care, if you want to by pass this, make your own party and or team up with ppl form your FC/LS, that play and fell the same way you do.

Your $15 < the rest of the group's $45.

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Originally Posted by Aramina

Your $15 < the rest of the group's $45.

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I pay 26$ my wife 24 in all 50$, how that work? Pointless you have no idea how much someone pay for there game.

For crying out loud, put it to bed. Some healers are going to add DPS to the already capable DPS, and some healers won't. Some tanks are going to add DPS to the already capable DPS, and some won't.

End. Of. Story.

I once was an 'I only heal healer'. The more I played the more confident I became as the better I got. I am not a pro player, I never will be with my lag, but I can vouch for the fact that dpsing isn't outside my capabilities.

Fellow healers, all I ask is you give it a try. Be open to the possibility that now that cleric is dead maybe we don't have to choose life or death. We can weild both equally.

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Originally Posted by Hazuki87

the one paying for theie game

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Oh, cool, we've arrived at "you don't pay my sub". That's basically r/ffxiv's Godwin. Debate's over, folks.

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Originally Posted by Hazuki87

I pay 26$ my wife 24 in all 50$, how that work? Pointless you have no idea how much someone pay for there game.

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-> The point.
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-> Your head.

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Originally Posted by DamianTenbe

Thank you all very much for all that constructive feedback and opinions. For the replies that are supporting my opinion and for the ones that doesn't. I Respect all the opinions here and I hope all this information will become useful in some way. Thus I think it's time to stop bumping my thread and move on, since the argument if healer/tank should dps will never end. Stormblood is almost out so let's enjoy it all together. Mic out thanks again. :D

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LoL at constructive feedback. If you want to end this debate here in your thread ask a moderator to close it.

Moderators please close my thread. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Hazuki87

I pay 26$ my wife 24 in all 50$, how that work? Pointless you have no idea how much someone pay for there game.

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Me and another person + 6 retainers and sub plus guy in group with same shit. Hows that work? Why did the healer in a recent picture on reddit bitch on tank for spamming flash, when his job is keeping aggro? Like you said, pointless saying when you dont know what other pay for. You act like trying is such a bad thing. If someone doesnt want to fine, dont expect me or others to help them clear content. Typical pf: help a friend out when they talk about themselves. They play the worse in group and gets told to improve then you get stamped as asshole. Mmmm okay.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

Me and another person + 6 retainers and sub plus guy in group with same shit. Hows that work? Why did the healer in a recent picture on reddit bitch on tank for spamming flash, when his job is keeping aggro? Like you said, pointless saying when you dont know what other pay for. You act like trying is such a bad thing. If someone doesnt want to fine, dont expect me or others to help them clear content. Typical pf: help a friend out when they talk about themselves. They play the worse in group and gets told to improve then you get stamped as asshole. Mmmm okay.

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Dam right, it a game get over it and play with ppl of like mind, or go play a diff game.

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Originally Posted by Hazuki87

Dam right, it a game get over it and play with ppl of like mind, or go play a diff game.

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You're missing the point here, you really are. When you play a online game people play like a team. It's even ironic the new FF14 japanese commercial screams gameplay together but it's also (of course) to have fun! But the fun should involve EVERYONE.
It's been told here, I'm completely fine people not wanting to improve but when they know they can and they flat out deny to try then, they should get their own group. Like you said go on your own group and do your own stuff. If I spam flash as a tank and not do a single combo in the entire roulette, you should be fine with it. DPS's job is to dps, so auto attack should be fine. This is excactly what you are telling people is fine to do. If you don't believe me go back to your old post and read again.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

You're missing the point here, you really are.

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No I do get the point, It a game 1st! Online or not you can't make ppl do something the don't wish to do, you team up with players of like mines or you move on to a new game. If someone wish to play there way you can't stop them, just black them or never play with them. It you're call to play with them. For all you know it a 10 year old that don't know better or how to play. You going to bitch at a lil kid for being bad at the game?

I have many moms and dads in my FC, and most of them let there kids play. Sometime we have to be sure we are talking to them or there kid befor we start telling them how to do something. Sure if we are talking endgame there are right and wrong ways to go about it, BUT ther is no one way to do it. What work fo one may not work of others, and so on.

In the end all one can do it educate them on the how and what works. But you can never tell someone you're way is the only way, or that they MUST do it.

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Originally Posted by Hazuki87

it.

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[B]Will make it short: 10 year old kids shouldn't play this game in the first place, it's an MMO, many parents I know who plays wouldn't even let them touch an MMO, so imo bad pareting, why? because MMO games can be full of bad people, you can say I'm one of them which is totally fine, but then again you tell people it's fine to cast flash, doing no aggro combo, you say it's fine for BLM's to cast ice spells 24-7. Then again you act like majority is a kid playing this game, which again is a bad argument.

Look what you just said:

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Originally Posted by Hazuki87

. But you can never tell someone you're way is the only way, .

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i like to tank but old has the worst damage atm.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

[B]Will make it short: 10 year old kids shouldn't play this game in the first place,

Look what you just said:

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Lol how so? What wrong with kids playing games? It better then them out someking pot or partying, and so what if their 10 or 16. If it make them happy who are you to tell them they can't play?

All the same not the point I was getting at.

You have no idea WHO is behind the game playing it, so you can't tell some one how to play. You can only educate them!

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Originally Posted by Hazuki87

Lol how

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Because if i had a kid that is 10 he or she be out playing with their friends. You just asume some kids who dont play are on pot on age 10? Are you high? You still act majority are kids. But you say you have to educated them, yet you sponsor flash only tanks and auto attack dps since it's another way to play. Im done with you, because you think every person who doesnt play well is a kid then asume they on pot if they dont play lol.

And the arguing continues.... No one cares if you feel people should play differently than they already are. If your time is so damn precious consider a game that isn't an MMO.

Honestly I dont mind dpsing as a healer while healing at the same time. but Stance Dance just makes it too difficult to do effectively so I'm glad that's going away. Changing Mind to increase healer damage while removing stance dance was a great idea and will actually help healers to dps.

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Originally Posted by Kikoten

the already capable DPS.

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These exist? Aren't those just the healer carrying them?

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

These exist? Aren't those just the healer carrying them?

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Remind me to stand behind you and make faces the next time I see you in Idyllshire... :P

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Originally Posted by savageink

Remind me to stand behind you and make faces the next time I see you in Idyllshire... :P

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OhnoI'vebeendiscovered. Ineedatank!