botting.

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Originally Posted by MANTASTIC

stuff

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I grinded almost all crafts to 50 now, and I agree with every point you made

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Originally Posted by Vawn

Don't get me wrong with what I said earlier. Yeah, I'm not paying attention to the game, but I am still manually pressing the button. I'm just playing the game blind. Any actual bots should be dealt with (banned or otherwise) and this includes turbo-controlling and going afk.

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That's a ridiculous line to draw. You should get banned for holding down a turbo controller, but as long as you're the one pressing the button constantly it's fine, even if you're not there?

So, what if you are physically holding down the turbo button? Is that bannable?

The fact of the matter is the gameplay systems encourages this degenrative gameplay. It would behoove them to fix the gameplay so that it's more rewarding to actually play, than to try to force people to sit at their computer and press enter for hours on end.

Very poorly designed crafting system. I know I know its super SHOCKING with how well designed the rest of the game is.

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

It would behoove them to fix the gameplay so that it's more rewarding to actually play

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There is no reward they could give me to entice me to want to craft.

I would always choose a machine to craft for me, if possible, regardless of the reward.

Kinda like we do in real life... machines craft for us...

(If I were to craft.)

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Originally Posted by MANTASTIC

OP was a bit vague but I assume he's referring specifically to crafting bots? And/or turbo controller users?

Excuse the long post, and look for the bold for the tl;dr.

AFK-crafting in FF14 is a symptom several major problems of the crafting system itself. I'll do my best to explain my opinions on the big ones, starting with:
1) Absurd time invesment requirements. Not only does it take a solid minute or so to complete one item and begin the next, the game demands your attention every 3 seconds like a nagging 4 year old. I always imagine the crafting system to be one of those really annoying jersey shore-types that use the words "bro" and "alpha" unironically.

"Hey bro, how you wanna go about this?"
>Standard
"Ok, good choice bro."
...
"So, what will it be this time?"
>Standard
...
"Yo bro, wh-"
>Standard

I believe a system such as this would be serviceable(not anywhere near ideal, mind you) were it not for the...
2) Terrible rate of progression. Now we're cooking with ass. The snail-like pace of the crafting process compounds the abysmal rate of experience points. There is a huge gap between the average and optimal experience point rates between combat classes and crafter classes, but they are are on the same leveling curve!

100,000 experience points may breeze by in an entertaining group activity for my conjurer, but I'll be lucky(or rather, masochistic) if I make that much in 6 hours of straight crafting, especially towards the higher end. My current strategy for getting a craft from 48-50 is saving up leves and mashing them out. And it takes about 50-60 or so to do it.

So we know about how slow the process is, but that wouldn't itself explain why so very many people are tapin' dat x button down on their controllers. Well, there's a few(or more) problems left to discuss, let's continue with...
3) Random occurrences mitigate player decision-making/skill. Ah yes, RNG. FF14's crafting system is completely full of random outcomes at every turn. Any skill not named perfection will only increase the chances of a favorable outcome. An element can still destabilize on a white orb, and an action can still get a no-durability lost success on a red orb. This is further exacerbated by a...

4) Lack of information. An avid crafter who has done hours of research on the vastness of the internet only has a smidgeon of an idea of how the mechanics of crafting work. How is a new player supposed to know what the hell control, craftsmanship, and magic craftsmanship effect? Why are recipe levels kept hidden from players? Not to mention hidden background statistics, most notably "risk." Were it not for skills such as high return, we'd not even know to call it that.

Throw all of the above together, and we reach the final, most damnable aspect of FF14's crafting system:
5) Broken Effort to Reward Ratio. This refers to how putting for the effort to make advancement is rewarded. In a healthy effort to reward ratio, a player who makes larger contributions of skill to the task at hand is awarded proportionately to the act. Think about 14's crafting system with this in mind. The player who invests time into trying to maximize the result of a crating attempt may, at best, hope for an additional 50 or experience points, and a scaling (but always sub-40%?) chance of an HQ product. Now factor the additional time required for this.

So! What does all that mean, and how does it relate to bots and turbo controllers? Ask yourself the following:

"Why should I pay attention to crafting for long, long hours at a time, when mashing on standard synthesis is nearly as effective, and can be done while I do other, more interesting things?"

Truly, a difficult question to answer. I'll leave you with one final thing to roll around in those heads of yours.

The only way to prevent botting is to not design content that encourages it!
A mindless, grindy crafting system will inevitably be "played" by a mindless bot.

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Beautiful post. This is sums it up pretty comprehensively.

no matter the change those that bot will continue to do so. the game can be as challenging as they want to make it and just as involved, but the people that only bot for the advantage of ranking without effort are going to continue doing so. the best thing for them to do is ban the people botting completely.

the new systems put in place benefit the people that botted to cap anyways.

what do i mean? look at materia.... it doesn't matter if you took the time and learned your skill or botted to cap the same percentage applies to both attaching materia. look at crafting..... it doesn't matter if you took the time to craft and collect books and use guild supports anymore since the requirement for those are removed besides when doing local leves. the people that took their time and tried and worked crafting to learn their skills are now just as good a crafter as someone that opened a program and walked away.

the people to blame for this repetative system and the botting that goes on have nobody to blame for it than themselves. if people had went after wanting a new system instead of making recipes easier(which also assists bots) then maybe there would be an engaging system in place then spotting a botter was easier. the changes made to crafting that made things easier for the lazy people that didn't want to invest time in the game actually turns out to be the best thing to happen for people that bot now.

Personally, I start mashing the A button on my controller, and watch youtube videos.
I may not have a bot, or turbo controllers, but crafting doesnt feel rewarding, AND attempting to "TRY" only feels like it HURTs more than it HELPs.
Oh noes, it went red, ill hit wait, still red... ill hit wait... still red... standard, success!... oh look its white, fail, still white, critical fail... so on, and so forth.... the abilities/situations are a difference of like 1% and unnoticeable...

Other MMos, u sit back and watch it craft for you. so complaining ppl are botting these, is kinda meh~ to be worrying about.
I dont encourage it, but in the end, looking at what i do, its not rly too much different in this scenario.
I think the ability to mass produce, and the ability to craft faster, can help, and should be there, BUT also give players, doing crafts of their Lv range, the ability to be APART of the craft... actually doing something that's noticeably important.
Give different recipes different 'strategies'. give all those elemental destabilizations some special trick maybe...

A half-assed mini game is worse than the WoW standard of auto making stuff with a click.
A well put together mini game (which this is not) can make things fun and a step forward.
FFXI looked to add typical MMO features, but only half-assed.
Like the create a dungeon of FFXI.
Don't limit yourselves SE.
You are only hurting yourselves.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

the people to blame for this repetative system and the botting that goes on have nobody to blame for it than themselves. if people had went after wanting a new system instead of making recipes easier(which also assists bots) then maybe there would be an engaging system in place then spotting a botter was easier. the changes made to crafting that made things easier for the lazy people that didn't want to invest time in the game actually turns out to be the best thing to happen for people that bot now.

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I don't know where anyone got this general idea that the devs are absolved of any responsibility of serious design flaws. They made it and left it this way and even made afk button spamming possible by changing the default cursor placement. Players are not and cannot hold the gun to their heads to change something, the end result is entirely up to the devs. I don't ever recall requests to be able to watch a full length movie without looking at the game at any point during that and keep crafting without any issue.

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Originally Posted by Nayt

What I want to say is, why is being non-responsive grounds for being accused of botting?

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It does have to be said this "no speaky lots of banny" policy existed in FFXI and WoW and pretty much any other MMO. All the GM can do is port out to you invisible and watch you for a time and make assumptions.

I doubt you'll get banned for being unresponsive in FFXIV right now, though. That's like inviting someone(1) to your birthday party and making them leave because they ate some of your cake.

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Originally Posted by MANTASTIC

OP was a bit vague but I assume he's referring specifically to crafting bots? And/or turbo controller users?

Excuse the long post, and look for the bold for the tl;dr.

AFK-crafting in FF14 is a symptom several major problems of the crafting system itself. I'll do my best to explain my opinions on the big ones, starting with:
1) Absurd time invesment requirements. Not only does it take a solid minute or so to complete one item and begin the next, the game demands your attention every 3 seconds like a nagging 4 year old. I always imagine the crafting system to be one of those really annoying jersey shore-types that use the words "bro" and "alpha" unironically.

"Hey bro, how you wanna go about this?"
>Standard
"Ok, good choice bro."
...
"So, what will it be this time?"
>Standard
...
"Yo bro, wh-"
>Standard

I believe a system such as this would be serviceable(not anywhere near ideal, mind you) were it not for the...
2) Terrible rate of progression. Now we're cooking with ass. The snail-like pace of the crafting process compounds the abysmal rate of experience points. There is a huge gap between the average and optimal experience point rates between combat classes and crafter classes, but they are are on the same leveling curve!

100,000 experience points may breeze by in an entertaining group activity for my conjurer, but I'll be lucky(or rather, masochistic) if I make that much in 6 hours of straight crafting, especially towards the higher end. My current strategy for getting a craft from 48-50 is saving up leves and mashing them out. And it takes about 50-60 or so to do it.

So we know about how slow the process is, but that wouldn't itself explain why so very many people are tapin' dat x button down on their controllers. Well, there's a few(or more) problems left to discuss, let's continue with...
3) Random occurrences mitigate player decision-making/skill. Ah yes, RNG. FF14's crafting system is completely full of random outcomes at every turn. Any skill not named perfection will only increase the chances of a favorable outcome. An element can still destabilize on a white orb, and an action can still get a no-durability lost success on a red orb. This is further exacerbated by a...

4) Lack of information. An avid crafter who has done hours of research on the vastness of the internet only has a smidgeon of an idea of how the mechanics of crafting work. How is a new player supposed to know what the hell control, craftsmanship, and magic craftsmanship effect? Why are recipe levels kept hidden from players? Not to mention hidden background statistics, most notably "risk." Were it not for skills such as high return, we'd not even know to call it that.

Throw all of the above together, and we reach the final, most damnable aspect of FF14's crafting system:
5) Broken Effort to Reward Ratio. This refers to how putting for the effort to make advancement is rewarded. In a healthy effort to reward ratio, a player who makes larger contributions of skill to the task at hand is awarded proportionately to the act. Think about 14's crafting system with this in mind. The player who invests time into trying to maximize the result of a crating attempt may, at best, hope for an additional 50 or experience points, and a scaling (but always sub-40%?) chance of an HQ product. Now factor the additional time required for this.

So! What does all that mean, and how does it relate to bots and turbo controllers? Ask yourself the following:

"Why should I pay attention to crafting for long, long hours at a time, when mashing on standard synthesis is nearly as effective, and can be done while I do other, more interesting things?"

Truly, a difficult question to answer. I'll leave you with one final thing to roll around in those heads of yours.

The only way to prevent botting is to not design content that encourages it!
A mindless, grindy crafting system will inevitably be "played" by a mindless bot.

---

/thread~~~

I use auto walk a lot and go to get a drink, come back to find my chocobo has been walking into a wall for 30 minutes or so, I wonder if people ever think i'm using a really stupid bot.

I'm almost to my first fifty craft. Crafting is borIng. I do get sense of accomplishment from ranking up and I do feel good when I can help out my LS mates.

There is a huge bottin problem. You can't identify a bot as a player with 100% accuracy, but when I catch players crafting and unresponsive in instanced events or someone doing the same on a random far off point in the map, there is no greater evidence of someone trying to hide their shame. I would really like to be able to call a GM and have them investigate the player. I know there would be a lot of false reports, but people who do it the right way feel wronged otherwise. I am one of those people.

You other achievements in the game dont mean squat if your using gear you made from a botted craft. Shame on you, you WILL get urs.


Happy gamin'

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Originally Posted by Destain

when I catch players crafting and unresponsive in instanced events or someone doing the same on a random far off point in the map, there is no greater evidence of someone trying to hide their shame.'

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Yeah, how about no, I might not spend much time on my weaver, but when I do, I usually tuck away at one of the corners in the black shroud or in an instanced area where i can keep the lag to a minimum, and I'm sure i'm not the only player that avoids area with traffic, just because you made up some small set of rules for yourself doesn't mean the rest of us are included in it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Destain

I'm almost to my first fifty craft. Crafting is borIng. I do get sense of accomplishment from ranking up and I do feel good when I can help out my LS mates.

There is a huge bottin problem. You can't identify a bot as a player with 100% accuracy, but when I catch players crafting and unresponsive in instanced events or someone doing the same on a random far off point in the map, there is no greater evidence of someone trying to hide their shame. I would really like to be able to call a GM and have them investigate the player. I know there would be a lot of false reports, but people who do it the right way feel wronged otherwise. I am one of those people.

You other achievements in the game dont mean squat if your using gear you made from a botted craft. Shame on you, you WILL get urs.


Happy gamin'

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Some people like to not craft in main cities because it cuts down a lot of the latency both server side (ui lag) as well as improving performance in general. I always prefer to craft in secluded / instanced areas because not only does it go faster for me because the ui is more responsive, but i have less issues with huge lag spikes.

It's cool that you think because you have a 50 you're fit to judge people on this issue, but you need to be better at thinking critically before actually passing judgment.

Once the game makes it more rewarding to actually craft, rather than minimize the game and mash on a single button on a controller, then they can start worrying about botting. But as it is, when the most effective way to exp a DoH job is to do something that mimics the most simple automation (pressing enter, or a button, over and over), there is little room to punish people for doing that and not being responsive.

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Originally Posted by Destain

I'm almost to my first fifty craft. Crafting is borIng. I do get sense of accomplishment from ranking up and I do feel good when I can help out my LS mates.

There is a huge bottin problem. You can't identify a bot as a player with 100% accuracy, but when I catch players crafting and unresponsive in instanced events or someone doing the same on a random far off point in the map, there is no greater evidence of someone trying to hide their shame. I would really like to be able to call a GM and have them investigate the player. I know there would be a lot of false reports, but people who do it the right way feel wronged otherwise. I am one of those people.

You other achievements in the game dont mean squat if your using gear you made from a botted craft. Shame on you, you WILL get urs.


Happy gamin'

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You should probably take a step back and read what you wrote.

Your argument is essentially "I put up with this shitty system so others should have to as well! /angryface!!!!11"

I suppose in Destain's logic, crafting in Merchant Ward to escape the grating, by now absolutely repulsive Halloween music in Ul'dah so you don't grit your teeth to the root while repetitively pressing enter is grounds for a ban. (No, why mute the music when the game has GOOD music elsewhere?)

Everything happens because the design encourages it. If some of your crafters aren't strewn out in the middle of the walkway like some kind of crazy crack den with people you have to step over, but instead, are off secluded and against the norm, maybe it's a combination of efficiency and perhaps that people just don't like contributing to the thoughtlessness of other crafters (how many have us accidentally kneeled on another crafter only to jerk back up and feel horrible for blocking their vision once they load)

Nope, botters. Filthy dirty botters not crafting around an NPC!

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Originally Posted by Zeref

I use auto walk a lot and go to get a drink, come back to find my chocobo has been walking into a wall for 30 minutes or so, I wonder if people ever think i'm using a really stupid bot.

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You can't see other players running on the same spot, they just appear stationary. I realise you probably know this and were just making a joke, but I have to increase my post count somehow, amirite?

There will always be botters, no matter how "easy" things are made.
And SE will always ignore 99% of them, it seems. -.-

Wow, who would of thought expressing your opinion on a thread that asks for your opinion would result in so much rage?!

Anyways, you may have just skimmed my post. So I'll try and use my tiny stupid brain to answer all your responses in one go.

I never said that crafting in an isolated area or instanced location, like a mission, was proof of booting, but combined with a non responsive player only someone that is hiding their shame wouldn't admit it looks suspect. Yes, if I had to do it the honest way I am going to not like people that cheat, how is that wrong? It's not like I said crafting is fun and shouldn't be improved.

And I apologize, i should have been clearing that when I say evidence, I meant to me. Like I said there is no way to tell if a player is a bot. Only SE can determine that. It's just my perception of the situation.

Go ahead and selectively pick and choose individual sentences from a thread and ignore the context. That's up to you. If you want to spend your time jumping on people for having an opinion on an opinion thread be ready to be busy for every minute of every hour of every day of every year of every decade... You get the point. I guess i just don't understand saying that I think I'm cool cus I have rank 50, which I explicitly said for crafting I'm only close to. It's almost like you can't read, but that's can't be right. Your on forums after all.

Eh...I don't care for statistics either way. All botting does is damage someone's credibility as a "hardcore" player. I'm 32 as a Lancer at the moment, and while the botting may help I find it more fulfilling to get up to the level cap by myself. Not once have I taken part in an EXP party, and in truth it'll be even more monotonous than grinding away solo. Until the new class/job/discipline progression system is in place: I'll just keep killing more sheep, antelopes, monkeys and wolves.

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Originally Posted by DeathSaint

you can tell whos botting or not. its not that hard to tell, Im talking about the guys that you see in the same spot for 10+ hours. I seen a guy once for like 16 hrs in the same spot fishing...kinda obvious lol. But whatever floats ure boat. Me myself, I dont even find that fun, I actually enjoy earning what I have, Makes you value your character more, I just started this game actually but Im gonna enjoy getting all my stats to lvl 50, and the hardwork and effort is what makes you value your character the most. Not items

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Not really, some of us are insane enough to fish legit for 16+ hours, I kno I have lol.

Bots are always going to be around in a game, period. It is partially SE's fault for making the crafting grind so mind-numbingly boring, but it's not like it's tough to just hit enter while catching up on TV shows.

It just seems to me that SE is aware of prevalent botters, and has simply turned a blind eye until the game goes P2P. I see way too many of them nestled in corners where normal crafters wouldn't be.

Yep, personally, on my days off, I enjoyed watching netflix on my other monitory and fishing for 14 hours straight. (Controller is awesome for fishing btw. Invest before you fish to 50)

Might as well do two things at once.

Watching every sing episode of startrek voyager was a bigger accomplishment than getting 50 fishing XD

Would you guys consider it botting if someone had a turbo controller or macro that would spam enter as long as you manually held the button down?

Don't know don't care. Crafting/Gathering leveing in this game is an overkill. A few people like it (very few) but the remaining detest it.

I really don't see that big of a deal and most people just minimize the game and keep hitting the controller button.

And NO you cant tell if the guys is botting by simply talking to them. There could be many reasons they didn't respond (not in the mood, didn't pay attention, mindlessly pressing buttons while watching a movie....etc). If they are not using a tool to access game data then this I don't care and neither should you.

I'm emailing SE to find out their stance regarding a device or program that automates spamming the "enter" button as long as the user is there to hold down the key. Their rules and policy seem to be structured more against "absentee playing" and botting and I feel that as long as you are physically there at the computer holding down the button a turbo controller wouldn't be in violation of this.

To be honest, what's the difference to us if someone is at their computer spamming enter versus holding a button down on a turbo controller?

A bot on the other hand, is a whole different issue because it allows the user to be completely away from his PC and still gain from it. This defeats the spirit of fair play and shouldn't be allowed.

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Originally Posted by Bluetaro

This defeats the spirit of fair play and shouldn't be allowed.

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It's not allowed. . .

botting is in every online game. and there obvious to spot out they just sit there at gathering nodes or in town crafting. send the a tell or ten and they wont respond.

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I have often wondered if people assume I am botting - I am definitely not. Crafting is tedious at times and I highly doubt that nearly as many people are truly botting as are suspected of doing so.

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most of them are botting after the bot is out of mats they just sit there in there synth kneel.

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Originally Posted by Vawn

Don't get me wrong with what I said earlier. Yeah, I'm not paying attention to the game, but I am still manually pressing the button. I'm just playing the game blind. Any actual bots should be dealt with (banned or otherwise) and this includes turbo-controlling and going afk.

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I find your logic extremely hard to understand. You say bots should be dealt with for using a turbo controller???
If your time has any value at all, and you had a turbo controller, you would indeed be using it instead of sitting there like a monkey hitting a single button for hours on end. The crafting system is this game is arguably the most tedious and uninteresting of all systems ever invented in mmo game history and is simply not intended for humans. I wouldn't feel guilty in the slightest bit for using a turbo controller. And you are right, I see people craft botting constantly, and rightfully so.

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Originally Posted by Bluetaro

I'm emailing SE to find out their stance regarding a device or program that automates spamming the "enter" button as long as the user is there to hold down the key. Their rules and policy seem to be structured more against "absentee playing" and botting and I feel that as long as you are physically there at the computer holding down the button a turbo controller wouldn't be in violation of this.

To be honest, what's the difference to us if someone is at their computer spamming enter versus holding a button down on a turbo controller?

A bot on the other hand, is a whole different issue because it allows the user to be completely away from his PC and still gain from it. This defeats the spirit of fair play and shouldn't be allowed.

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You are just blurring the lines here. If you followed your own logic through completely, it would imply there is no difference between using a turbo controller or using a bot.

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Originally Posted by Fullmetal

You are just blurring the lines here. If you followed your own logic through completely, it would imply there is no difference between using a turbo controller or using a bot.

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How so? The player would have to be present to hold the turbo controller button down, whereas a bot you could leave the computer by itself.

If I was more energetic I'd get a second moniter set up to watch stuff while I craft, and still be able to see the game.

As it stands when I rarely craft I tend to browse the forums and refocus my window every few seconds (Tab+Alt) to "Normal synth" Then again it was mostly the same for my XI crafting career aside from the fact it took longer to due to needing to fill recipe slots everytime.

*edit*

But I never will support people who bot, I think it's the most idiotic thing you can do. Why bother playing the game when you can't even bother to be around? Being lazy and half idle is one thing...but totally absent is another.

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Originally Posted by Bluetaro

How so? The player would have to be present to hold the turbo controller button down, whereas a bot you could leave the computer by itself.

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Scotch tape + turbo gamepad = crafting bot
It's easier to use. You don't ever have to worry about things like finding and updating memory offsets. The turbo-gamepad "bot" will never stop working because of a patch, or a bug. It's nearly undetectable. When SE changed the default cursor position to "Recipe" they turned everybody with a turbo gamepad into a potential hacker.

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Originally Posted by Blarp

Scotch tape + turbo gamepad = crafting bot
It's easier to use. You don't ever have to worry about things like finding and updating memory offsets. The turbo-gamepad "bot" will never stop working because of a patch, or a bug. It's nearly undetectable. When SE changed the default cursor position to "Recipe" they turned everybody with a turbo gamepad into a potential hacker.

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I agree if they're going to leave their computer with the button scotch-taped down that would fall under SE's "absentee play" and should be investigated... Problem is, how can you tell that person from a player who is sitting there with a turbo button pressed while they're watching a movie?

My question is whether or not we can watch a movie while holding down a turbo controller button to spam craft. Since I'm physically there holding the button down, can I be banned for this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bluetaro

I agree if they're going to leave their computer with the button scotch-taped down that would fall under SE's "absentee play" and should be investigated... Problem is, how can you tell that person from a player who is sitting there with a turbo button pressed while they're watching a movie?

My question is whether or not we can watch a movie while holding down a turbo controller button to spam craft. Since I'm physically there holding the button down, can I be banned for this?

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How would anyone ever be able to tell the difference between a turbo button left to it's own devices and a turbo button manually held down while the person is watching movies. Odds are he's not looking at the screen

Using third party programs or tools in FINAL FANTASY XIV is strictly prohibited since they allow users to gain an unfair advantage over other players. The use of programs or tools within FINAL FANTASY XIV that allow certain continuous actions to be performed automatically are often referred to as absentee play, which is also prohibited in FINAL FANTASY XIV. Additionally, during the course of an absentee play investigation, players may be requested to respond to or comply with a GMs instruction. Failure to do so is consider a violation and may result in disciplinary action being taken against the account.

http://support.na.square-enix.com/fa...909&ret=faqtop

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Originally Posted by tragic

Using third party programs or tools in FINAL FANTASY XIV is strictly prohibited since they allow users to gain an unfair advantage over other players. The use of programs or tools within FINAL FANTASY XIV that allow certain continuous actions to be performed automatically are often referred to as absentee play, which is also prohibited in FINAL FANTASY XIV. Additionally, during the course of an absentee play investigation, players may be requested to respond to or comply with a GMs instruction. Failure to do so is consider a violation and may result in disciplinary action being taken against the account.

http://support.na.square-enix.com/fa...909&ret=faqtop

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I realize the importance of what you have bolded, however as I mentioned earlier the key words that SE seem to be focusing on are absentee play. If I am physically at my computer holding down a turbo controller and I am able to respond to any instructions that they may have for me, I don't see any problem?

If someone leaves their comp running with an auto-button press overnight by all means punish away.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nayt

How would anyone ever be able to tell the difference between a turbo button left to it's own devices and a turbo button manually held down while the person is watching movies. Odds are he's not looking at the screen

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True, but how would it be different from someone manually pressing enter while watching a movie?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bluetaro

I realize the importance of what you have bolded, however as I mentioned earlier the key words that SE seem to be focusing on are absentee play. If I am physically at my computer holding down a turbo controller and I am able to respond to any instructions that they may have for me, I don't see any problem?

If someone leaves their comp running with an auto-button press overnight by all means punish away.

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With the wording in the ToS, yeah, you'd be fine. They'll only punish you for spamming enter if you're not responding.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nayt

With the wording in the ToS, yeah, you'd be fine. They'll only punish you for spamming enter if you're not responding.

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Which would be fine with me. If I'm afk-crafting that is totally unfair to all the players who are actually leveling legit.

However, I hope that SE wouldn't ban someone using a "tool that allowed for continuous actions to be performed automatically" when all it would be doing is have them hold down "enter" instead of spamming it.