Future leader of Apa Mhigo

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

The elementals have a more important things to do than dealing with Ala Mhigo, to be honest I dont think they even care at all.

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On top of which, they're all pretty inactive. My understanding is that the Elementals have been at only a fraction of their power since the Calamity.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

No. More to the point, its worth remembering that the Autumn war was a hundred years prior. While there would probably be some agro pasted down, that's a long time ago. No one living in Gridania these days would have actually been around at the time it was fought. The elementals aren't that caught up in politics. They don't reject Ala Mhigans specifically. After all there are several cases of Ala Mhigans have accepted. Elementals judge people individually on wether they feel the individual will be a detriment to the twelveswood.

I don't see either the Elementals or the Gridanians interfering with any attempt to drive the Garleans out of Ala Mhigo or even set up the city state again. Removal of the Garleans, like all the city states, is in their interests and probably the primary reason the Eorzean Alliance would move against Ala Mhigo next expac. Whatever the Ala Mhigans did 100 years prior, the Garleans have a bloody big Castrum smack dab in the twelveswood right now, sending incursions into the forest and inciting the local Sylphs. The Garleans are the reason the Sylphs chose to summon Ramuh in the first place.

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not strictly true as the padjal are extremely long lived with e-sumi-yan being one of if not the oldest of them currently alive and i have no doubt he was around back then but is just to laid back about it to care.

I'm actually hoping that our reason for entering Ala Mhigo is something that forces us to set aside our grudge with Garlemald and work alongside the Garleans. Perhaps Regula pulls a Kefka, betrays Varys and then decides to test out his new powers on Ala Mhigo. We make a push into the remnants of the nation to help rebuild it and encourage Ala Mhigans and Garleans to work together and push for peace so that the greater threat can be addressed. It'd be very boring to me by comparison if the storyline is as simple as liberating Ala Mhigo and slaughtering Garleans at every turn. That wouldn't feel very 'Final Fantasy' to me. As I've pointed out many times in the past there's a long tradition of antagonists becoming allies - at least for a while - or being far more sympathetic than initially presented upon their side of the story being shown.

Honestly, the Garlean Empire is among my least favorite story elements in FFXIV. Despite multiple opportunities to do so, they are as flat-out generic an Evil Empire as you're likely to see in any media. From their arrogant superiority to their genocidal tendencies to their people's inexplicably unshakable loyalty to terrible leaders with shortsighted (if not outright disastrous) plans, SE has dug themselves in too deep for any kind of "oh, wait, they're not really ALL that bad" plot twist to be at all reasonable. They are a caricature, and the best way to handle Garleans from this point forward is to keep them out of the storylines as much as possible. (Heck, as has been pointed out in this thread, even the "good-guy" traitors are caricatures! Anything they do is treated as though it is good by definition, simply because they're no longer with the Garleans.) I had some hope with the introduction of Valis, but nope; his intro made it clear that there was no potential change in Garlean philosophy on the way. They pretty much explicitly said that Valis is, if anything, worse than his predecessor.

I feel the same way about the Ul'dah Nanamo assassination plotline, something with potential promise that was hideously mishandled to the point where I simply don't want to see the characters involved anymore.

The Ala Mihgans have some potential as a once-belligerent Evil Empire in their own right now brought low. I'll be fine if the Ala Mihgans get some grey-vs-grey development with different Ala Mihgan factions with different viewpoints - but when the Garleans get involved, they should be nothing more than mindless mooks for the WoL to plow through without a thought or a speck of remorse. It is how they've been developed up to this point, and we're far past the point where a token sympathetic Garlean or two can turn things around.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

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At the same time, SE has also dug themselves so much that only a Deus Ex Machina could keep the Garleans outta Eorzea without certain intervention, so long as they have their foot in the door, then a some confrontation with them is inevitable, The Ascians doesn't want to kill the empire that is oh so easily manipulated to spreading chaos so that's out and They are not stupid enough to summon a Primal themselves are they?

As for the Token Heroic Garlean thing, as much as Theodoric would wish otherwise, that would be Cid and Lucia so far, plus the potential exists for there to still be characters that would closely fit in Larsa's shoes, or people that want to reform Garlemald from the inside, but lack the political and martial power to effectively do so, so you're right that one alone could not turn things around (keyword being: alone).

With that said, Note the reaction people had to Ishgard prior to Heavensward. Completely irredeemable, with players rather feeding the clergy and populace to Nidhogg then help them in any way. The perceptionc an change. (Though sadly I;d find Deus Ex Machina more likely than reformation at this point, but SE could at least try to surprise us.)

I don't believe that Garlemald is a lost cause. Not yet. The developers of this game have proven that they're more than willing to take constructive feedback into account and I have faith that someone influential is reading threads such as this and passing feedback along to the development team. 3.0 was an immense improvement over 2.0 in terms of storytelling and I firmly believe that 4.0 will, in turn, be an improvement over 3.0 in that regard. We're also getting a lore book at some point in the future which may very well shed further light on Garlemald's motivations and morality.

Ultimately, though, we do need to see more complexity where antagonists are concerned. We also need to see more morally dubious stuff from the protagonists as well. Protagonists are not necessarily good after all - just like antagonists aren't necessarily evil. I feel like it'd be a shame if Garlemald ended up being written off as 'generic bad guys' because there's absolutely no reason for them to be portrayed that way permanently. I fear they suffer a lot due to being exploited in the quest to 'rebuild' 1.0 into 2.0.

I do believe that the developers claim to be heavily inspired by FFXII, though. That gives me hope that Garlemald will be as morally complex as Archades. I also have my doubts that an expansion based around liberating Ala Mhigo for a bunch of overconfident, arrogant Highlanders will be particularly interesting as far as an expansion's premise goes. There's almost certainly going to be more to it than that.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Honestly, the Garlean Empire is among my least favorite story elements in FFXIV.Despite multiple opportunities to do so, they are as flat-out generic an Evil Empire as you're likely to see in any media. From their arrogant superiority to their genocidal tendencies to their people's inexplicably unshakable loyalty to terrible leaders with shortsighted (if not outright disastrous) plans, SE has dug themselves in too deep for any kind of "oh, wait, they're not really ALL that bad" plot twist to be at all reasonable. They are a caricature, and the best way to handle Garleans from this point forward is to keep them out of the storylines as much as possible. (Heck, as has been pointed out in this thread, even the "good-guy" traitors are caricatures! Anything they do is treated as though it is good by definition, simply because they're no longer with the Garleans.) I had some hope with the introduction of Valis, but nope; his intro made it clear that there was no potential change in Garlean philosophy on the way. They pretty much explicitly said that Valis is, if anything, worse than his predecessor.

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Eeh, I think that's selling them and their role in the story short. As much as I agree that Garlemald, at least under current administration, is pretty much shades of black and little else, I don't see why (a) that's a bad thing or (b) that it means they can't be used in an interesting way. I actually completely agree with Theodric here - there's plenty of opportunity for us to be forced to work alongside Garlemald, at least in the short term, since the major antagonists are a threat to them as well, and their status as a capital-B-Bad Guy actually makes that situation *more* interesting than if they were more sympathetic.

We also have little idea what things are like on the Garlean home front. The "blind loyalty" you talk about comes from the army of a military dictatorship; no doubt most of the civilian populace has either swallowed the kool-aid wholesale or are otherwise crushed into toeing the Imperial Line, but there are opportunists and dissidents in even the most tightly-run authoritarian state. Garlemald isn't an individual, after all; it doesn't especially matter how black-and-white the leader or state is if it's made up of individuals, and there are already some pretty fine example of this out there in other fiction.

For example! Let's take a look at Mobile Suit Gundam, something I'm more than willing to do pretty much always. If you're not familiar with the original 1979 series, it's about a war of independence being waged by a group of space colonies against the Earth, and it's known for its grey morality. Funny thing is, there isn't any grey morality in the broader factions - Zeon, the belligerent cluster of colonies, is run by a murderous despot and killed BILLIONS at the start of the war, while the Earth government is bureaucratic to a fault but generally the good guys. Where you find the grey morality is in the people. Zeon has a host of likable, sympathetic characters fighting loyally for a flimsy "cause" as part of a blatantly awful military force, and they all have their own reasons for doing so. Some are mooks; precisely none of the main characters are. It's a great case study as to how Garlemald could potentially be fleshed out and used well (and considering that original Gundam is basically Japan's Star Wars, being one of the most influential and recognizable pop culture icons of the entire nation...)

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I feel the same way about the Ul'dah Nanamo assassination plotline, something with potential promise that was hideously mishandled to the point where I simply don't want to see the characters involved anymore.

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Point taken, but to give the writers some (minor) credit, they don't seem to be totally done with this story, just playing the (very) long game with it. I seriously doubt that one 3.0 MSQ was the last we've seen of Lolorito's scheming and Nanamo's resolve, and it's pretty much universally agreed that Ilberd is likely coming back in a big way.

Same goes with the Empire - there's a long game being played here, distended by the drip-feed nature of MMO patch-based storytelling and the number of plates the plot is currently spinning. This is inefficient and undesirable as a storytelling method, but that's it's own conversation; I'd simply argue that the story is still at a relatively early enough point that the main antagonists lacking all the depth they could have isn't really a problem. Yet.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

The Ala Mihgans have some potential as a once-belligerent Evil Empire in their own right now brought low. I'll be fine if the Ala Mihgans get some grey-vs-grey development with different Ala Mihgan factions with different viewpoints - but when the Garleans get involved, they should be nothing more than mindless mooks for the WoL to plow through without a thought or a speck of remorse. It is how they've been developed up to this point, and we're far past the point where a token sympathetic Garlean or two can turn things around.

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I agree, but I think there's potential for the story to use more than just "a token sympathetic Garlean or two". There are other ways they could be used, and other ways they could be made more sympathetic (but they don't have to be!).

(And, sidebar, but I really think both Cid and Lucia stand on their own better than you give them credit for. Neither are characters that rely especially heavily on their connection to or status as traitors of Garlemald as their primary identity in the storyline.)

As an aside Zephirin was the one to slay Haurchefant and many people brushed him off as an outright villain - which is understandable - and yet later lore (unfortunately revealed outside of the game itself) painted him as rather chivalrous and honourable. He was even highlighted as not being particularly fond of Grinnaux or Charibert for their...overzealous and aggressive natures. What we really need is stuff like that to be displayed in-game rather than tucked away in obscure locations. Ideally this would mean less of Hildibrand's nonsense and more time spent on fleshing our both the minor and major antagonists.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

As an aside Zephirin was the one to slay Haurchefant and many people brushed him off as an outright villain - which is understandable - and yet later lore (unfortunately revealed outside of the game itself) painted him as rather chivalrous and honourable. He was even highlighted as not being particularly fond of Grinnaux or Charibert for their...overzealous and aggressive natures. What we really need is stuff like that to be displayed in-game rather than tucked away in obscure locations. Ideally this would mean less of Hildibrand's nonsense and more time spent on fleshing our both the minor and major antagonists.

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Agreed - one of my biggest issues with Heavensward was how much important world-, lore-, and character-building was left to either side quests or outside sources. Mind you, I'm not sure we can blame Hildy for it, considering he's gotten a grand total of 2 small quests since 2.5; really, it's probably more the dev desire to streamline the MSQ bloat of 2.x, and while that's commendable, it does end up leaving more on the cutting room floor. Hopefully they can find a nice balance as time goes on.

Id argue that FF14's antagonists have reasonable depth to them. Nidhogg has been consumed by his rage but the source of his rage is perfectly justifiable and frankly somewhat righteous. What was done was a horrible betrayal. Likewise, as flawed as it was, Thordin's motivation for doing what he and the Heaven's Ward did made sense and you could argue that their goals were a greater good in at least how they saw it. Hell, potentially even Ascians aren't all wrong in what they are doing.

Again, I think the current problem is that the scale of the threat needed to have Garlemald as a whole become our allies just like that would be kind of overkill. It would need to be more than just one big bad. That big bad would need an army or at least a way of generating a situation where we have lesser enemies to deal with. Garlemald just doesn't have much in the way of real threats to it's power that overlooking their aggressive policies would make sense. Likewise, I'm not sure if they want to go to that scale yet. After all 4.0 isn't going to be the last expansion.

My suspicion is the next expansion will deal with the Eorzean Alliance attacking Ala Mhigo to try and counter Garlemald's invasion threats by removing their foothold in Eorzea. Liberating Ala Mhigo would be a side effect of that. However I think once we get into it things are going to get very complicated. I think your going to have a lot of factions on both sides with their own ideas of what they want and in the end the WoL is going to have to try and find middle ground between factions to try and create some type of peaceful solution while countering the more extreme factions on both sides. For that reason I don't think all Garleans will necessarily be our enemies.

I think in going into Ala Mhigo we will learn more about the inner political workings of Garlemald and the forces involved. I also think from that it will be our way into traveling to Garlemald and getting tied up in the political intrigue of the empire. Hell 5.0 could have us saving Garlemald from civil war and helping Garlemald settle on a less expansionist and perhaps somewhat more benevolent policy.

Much as I want Garlemald to end up as FFXIV's answer to Archades, if I never see another Pinewood Chop in my life it will be too soon.

Well, I think the biggest issue is that the developers are going to struggle to show Garlemald as an actual threat. Technically Garlemald should be able to throw it's full might behind a campaign to take over and occupy Eorzea..but with a lot of losses on both sides. For obvious reasons that isn't going to happen - so there needs to be a plausible reason for them to hold back. Thus having a conflict of interests within Garlemald itself would work brilliantly. In the same vein we don't really need a situation where every prominent Garlean that seeks to be reasonable throws away all their loyalty and love for their homeland away in a drive to help Eorzea because that is rather boring.


I favour the approach of there being a bunch of influential Garleans who are fiercely loyal to their homeland and seek to protect it at all costs and they would prefer not to waste resources or spread their forces thin by attempting to aggressively expand. I feel like something like that would be the best compromise. If Varys gets the FF6 treatment in Azyz Lla and ends up dead then there's another opportunity to build up someone new to lead Garlemald into a brighter, more reasonable age. Given that Varys has had very little in the way of focus so far, however, I feel like he is going to be a sacrificial lamb to move the plot forward. Unless he surprises us by being in it for the long term.

As an aside, does anyone else believe that 3.3 might end on a cliffhanger that somehow involves Garlemald?

Either way. Varis will die, one way or another. Ok, yes he can end of on jail forever.
But not that he will be "our friend" or "partners with same goals".

I can think that you all can agreed with that?

It cant end the dictatorship of the empire, withouth taking of its leaders. That may be by force.

A dictatorship is a dictatorship, there has being no case where the solution turn up to by violence. Unless that the goverment colapsses from within.
But given what I see so far, its unlikely something like that will happen.

I think part of the reason is becuase there might actually be MORE Garleans working aganst their conquest than we realize, but they are not in a postion where being well known or reaching out to their targets would be viable without a trip to Room 101 resulting from that, so they operate in complete enough secrecy to hinder and misdirect Garlemald's movements, ranging from double agents leading them to waste time occuping nations that aren't actualy threat to more active "filibusters" and cockblocking of legilature to legalize anything more than what we had sen so far...

Or it could be just because they are too busy working on their methods of tempering to make sure its foolproof and/or trying to keep their own people under control to focus on their crusade

As an aside to an aside, where did we get information Zephirin was chivalrous? It isn't from the Dengeki/Lore Lowdown which features the same internal lore documents transcribed, because I can't think of Zephirin painted this way at all with this, so I feel like I've missed something.
http://gamerescape.com/2016/04/08/th...-lore-lowdown/

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Originally Posted by Rocl

As an aside to an aside, where did we get information Zephirin was chivalrous? It isn't from the Dengeki/Lore Lowdown which features the same internal lore documents transcribed, because I can't think of Zephirin painted this way at all with this, so I feel like I've missed something.
http://gamerescape.com/2016/04/08/th...-lore-lowdown/

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Yeah, reading that again, it's definitely Haumeric who's the chivalrous one with contempt for his more brutish brothers.

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Originally Posted by Hinoto-no-Ryuji

Yeah, reading that again, it's definitely Haumeric who's the chivalrous one with contempt for his more brutish brothers.

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An I just asked the Live letter team about adding more quests to counteract that...

Oh well, Story is my favorite part anyway. :P

Guys is clear that he was just following orthers from the archobiship, I mean common.
Its old story.

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Originally Posted by Hinoto-no-Ryuji

Yeah, reading that again, it's definitely Haumeric who's the chivalrous one with contempt for his more brutish brothers.

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To be fair his full title is 'Ser Zephirin the Just'. He is also referred to as a man of 'integrity' which is very much an alternate word used to describe someone who is chivalrous. Plus I believe the lore surrounding elezen specifically outlines that the men in particular are prone to being 'chivalrous' in nature. Obviously exceptions exist but Zephirin doesn't seem to be one of them. He killed Haurchefant, yes, but then that was arguably done out of concern for the well being of his comrades...and he wasn't specifically aiming to strike Haurchefant down anyway.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Well, I think the biggest issue is that the developers are going to struggle to show Garlemald as an actual threat. Technically Garlemald should be able to throw it's full might behind a campaign to take over and occupy Eorzea..but with a lot of losses on both sides. For obvious reasons that isn't going to happen - so there needs to be a plausible reason for them to hold back. Thus having a conflict of interests within Garlemald itself would work brilliantly. In the same vein we don't really need a situation where every prominent Garlean that seeks to be reasonable throws away all their loyalty and love for their homeland away in a drive to help Eorzea because that is rather boring.

I favour the approach of there being a bunch of influential Garleans who are fiercely loyal to their homeland and seek to protect it at all costs and they would prefer not to waste resources or spread their forces thin by attempting to aggressively expand. I feel like something like that would be the best compromise. If Varys gets the FF6 treatment in Azyz Lla and ends up dead then there's another opportunity to build up someone new to lead Garlemald into a brighter, more reasonable age. Given that Varys has had very little in the way of focus so far, however, I feel like he is going to be a sacrificial lamb to move the plot forward. Unless he surprises us by being in it for the long term.

As an aside, does anyone else believe that 3.3 might end on a cliffhanger that somehow involves Garlemald?

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I'd say it's almost certain that we will see Garlemald crash the party somehow at the end of 3.3. If not them then the Ascians. We have two more patches to go and we know the Heart of Sabik will make an appearance and that we will learn what Midgarsormr was guarding at Silvertear lake all this time. Something is going to have to happen that leads to that.

Honestly I cause part of me really expects 5.0 to lead us into Garlemald I expect something to come to the surface in 4.0 that leads to political turmoil in Garlemald in 5.0. Its in Ala Mhigo I think we will be get our introduction to characters and players in a future conflict there. I also think that being loyal to Garlemald doesn't automatically mean they are bad people either. Patriotism and loyalty doesn't mean blind commitment to the direction your country is going.

That said I don't expect Varis will end up in a protagonist role. I expect him either to remain a antagonist or at best be the trigger that sets of unrest in Garlemald. While Iceheart ended up as an ally, even when we first met her we got a sense she might not really be a true enemy. I never got anything like that from Varis.

I don't have a source for this since I stumbled across these images in another thread and they're apparently from a preview of the next step in The Warring Triad storyline:

- SPOILERS AHEAD -

http://i.imgur.com/mz5MyFi.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/6uEqqmP.jpg

I do wonder if it'll somehow tie into the end of 3.3 since it's highly likely that we'll get some sort of hint as to what 3.4 will bring us.

If we fight Regula again then that'll be the third time that we clash with him. If he survives for a third time then I can only assume that he's set to play a pretty major role in the future story. Though it appears that he's using some sort of magic in the first screenshot. Or absorbing power...from something.

I wonder if he'll end up turning himself into the next member of The Warring Triad given that he saw Ysayle change herself into Shiva? That'd be an interesting twist. Or perhaps he'll simply absorb a dangerous amount of power and it'll make him unstable...leading him to become this game's answer to Kefka.

I also have no idea how to spoiler tag images. >_>

Here's a source to peruse for now with a small blurb on the 3.3 Triad quest:
http://gamerescape.com/2016/05/19/ff...review-part-1/

Interesting. Has Garlemald shifted its goal from zealously destroying Eikons and Primals to harnessing their energy in a similar manner to the Allagans? If so, surely not everybody in Garlemald is alright with that? It seems weird - like Regula is a rogue agent with conflicting goals to Varis. Which would make sense if he's fated to ultimately betray Varis, I guess.

There's also the fact that Elibidus specifically stated in Gubal that the Garleans would 'play their part'. Which suggests to me that they're being manipulated/misguided.

Might not be a case of him going rogue, though - Garlemald's opposition to Primals is based around them being an obstacle to their dominance of Hydaelyn, not a matter of state religion, and it's been pretty well established that they're big admirers of Allag. With that in mind, it's not really surprising that they'd happily use a method that lets them not only make Primals into a military non-issue, but harness their power for their own use as well.

It was also the Ascians that led them to Azys La in the first place, right? Or am I mis-remembering that?

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Originally Posted by Hinoto-no-Ryuji

It was also the Ascians that led them to Azys La in the first place, right? Or am I mis-remembering that?

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I don't recall it ever being mentioned... If anything, 3.0 made it seem like the Ascians actively wanted to keep Garlemald away from Azys Lla... Well, Elidibus at least...

Their endgame was for Thordan to get to Azys Lla, to get to Azys Lla he'd need the key to Azys Lla, which was held by the Vanu... Ishgard sets up Camp Cloudtop, I wonder why... Good relations with the Vanu until something changes... Later we learn they summoned Bismarck for some reason... Then we learn that Garlemald is kicking around the Sea of Clouds and Bismarck ate the key to Azys Lla... I'd assume the Ascians had Bismarck summoned to keep the key safe...

Of course, they could have wanted Garlemald to show up specifically to fight with Thordan... Though Elidibus makes it sound like Garlemald messing with the Triad is bad for everyone... But... Well, that could also all just be part of some plan...

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Originally Posted by Hinoto-no-Ryuji

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It's not mentioned outright but it's plausible. We know that Varis and Regula were somehow aware of Azyz Lla and the Archbishop's plans but we aren't told how they know that. One theory I've been toying with is that Lucia is, in fact, still working for Garlemald despite her claim that she defected. She's in a position where she could feed Varss information that only a few individuals were aware of. It's unlikely, though. Lahabrea and Igorthym could have been in contact with Varys and feeding him information - or Elidibus himself could have been the one to do so, especially given that he states that 'The Garleans will play their part' whilst speaking to Urianger and the WoD in Gubal.

I'm still hoping that Varis somehow pulls a 'Vayne Solidor'. I just don't really want 4.0 to kick off with the Garleans doing outright villainous things unless there's some big revelation that casts them in a sympathetic light. I quite favour the idea that they used to be fairly peaceful yet their small size drew a lot of attempts at occupation which led to the drive for power that took place. Or for there to simply be a bunch of influential Garleans who don't want to focus on invasion or resorting to messing around with Eikons due to how easily it could backfire.

Perhaps 3.3 will give us some answers.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I quite favour the idea that they used to be fairly peaceful yet their small size drew a lot of attempts at occupation which led to the drive for power that took place.

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Somehow I think the inability to use magic and the perception of Weakness this would cause would be more likely the cause for attempts at occupying Garlemald, especially circa the War of the Magi (Assuming Garlemald has been around that long...and that the Elementals had spared them from their flood)

The Garlean Empire itself is only about fifty years old, (maybe 60 now?). Garlemald probably existed for longer but it's annoying/complex. Garlemald is probably the only modern city-state I can think of that's predominantly a single race of people: Garleans. Surely some annal of history somewhere has recorded them? Then again, Auri. (Though we have evidence of Auri existing in legends which take place in the Third Astral Era)

I'm also unsure of how much the rest of Hydaelyn is affected by Calamities--it stands to reason something like the Elementals causing a massive flood would have repercussions outside of Eorzea but I'm unaware of any we've ever been introduced to. We know, vaguely, that the Seventh Umbral Calamity mucked with linkshell communication for a bit across Hydaelyn, but the massive aetherial river rerouting/corrupted crystal phenomenon hasn't been mentioned outside of Eorzea.

The fourth calamity must have been over a much larger area than just Eorzea because Allag spanned across continents. I don't think it would have been as likely to completely collapse if the damage was focused entirely on Eorzea. Likewise, the fifth calamity was widespread enough freeze the seas between continents. I suspect that in most cases the calamities are planet wide but Eorzea is the epicentre. The Seventh didn't do as much outside Eorzea but it was heavily mitigated by Pheonix.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

The fourth calamity must have been over a much larger area than just Eorzea because Allag spanned across continents. I don't think it would have been as likely to completely collapse if the damage was focused entirely on Eorzea. Likewise, the fifth calamity was widespread enough freeze the seas between continents. I suspect that in most cases the calamities are planet wide but Eorzea is the epicentre. The Seventh didn't do as much outside Eorzea but it was heavily mitigated by Pheonix.

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Must be that "Source" thing that Migardsomnr was tasked to guard

I don't think Garlean's going to get to do too much in the MSQ for the next few patches. 3.3 should focus mostly on the end of the Dragonsong War, which has basically nothing to do with the Empire. And I remember hearing somewhere that the Ascians aren't going to be showing up very much in 4.X, which means that they'll probably be facing a major defeat in the next little bit that forces them to go to ground and lick their wounds for a while. So assuming the same number of patches/progression that 2.X had I figure they'll take a more prominent role around 3.5 or 3.55. Assuming that the next expansion is Empire/Ala Mihgo centric of course.

In the meantime, they'll probably keep showing up in the Warring Triad stuff just so we don't forget about them entirely.

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Originally Posted by SuperFlorinjin

I don't think Garlean's going to get to do too much in the MSQ for the next few patches. 3.3 should focus mostly on the end of the Dragonsong War, which has basically nothing to do with the Empire. And I remember hearing somewhere that the Ascians aren't going to be showing up very much in 4.X, which means that they'll probably be facing a major defeat in the next little bit that forces them to go to ground and lick their wounds for a while. So assuming the same number of patches/progression that 2.X had I figure they'll take a more prominent role around 3.5 or 3.55. Assuming that the next expansion is Empire/Ala Mihgo centric of course.

In the meantime, they'll probably keep showing up in the Warring Triad stuff just so we don't forget about them entirely.

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I agree with you, but didnt Yoshida say in a interview that 3.4 is the final HW patch? This makes me think that 3.3 will be 60% Dragonsong War and 40% new storyline. Then in 3.4 we get more information about Alla Mhigo and we enjoy another epic ending.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

I agree with you, but didnt Yoshida say in a interview that 3.4 is the final HW patch? This makes me think that 3.3 will be 60% Dragonsong War and 40% new storyline. Then in 3.4 we get more information about Alla Mhigo and we enjoy another epic ending.

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He never said that.

I remember hearing/thinking similar things but in the most recent PLL they've mentioned a 3.5 patch

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Originally Posted by Laerune

I agree with you, but didnt Yoshida say in a interview that 3.4 is the final HW patch?

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He said (or implied) somewhere that the 3.x series would be shorter, in some fashion, than 2.x. Some people took that to mean "no 3.5" and it spread around. I've never seen the original quote in context, now that I think about it, but given how much this game loves its patterns and given the pacing of everything thus far, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a 3.5.

Consider how the 3.3 previews are hyping it up as the Dragonsong War finale, as well. I think it's likely that we'll take care of Niddhog (whatever that entails) in 3.3, while 3.4 and 3.5 deal with the lead-up to whatever the next expansion is.

I'm actually going to take that with a pinch of salt because 3.1 was shorter and it was very poorly received as a result...though it did arrive after a longer than usual break between content patches. They've trimmed a lot of the fat where 'fetch quests' are concerned in the MSQ's though which is good.

3.3 is apparently wrapping up the Nidhogg situation. It'll likely end on a bittersweet note, I think - with a cliffhanger indicating where the story is going next. It's safe to say that it's probably going to lead us to Ala Mhigo.

3.4 will wrap up the Alexander storyline and likely give us Snowcloak (Hard). We'll probably get an expansion announcement around that point as well.

If there's a 3.5 - which is likely - then that will probably give us a third Mhachi raid or potentially give us the often teased 'Eureka' raid if it gets wrapped up in 3.3. Keeper of the Lake (Hard) is a possibility.

In between all that there's still The Warring Triad storyline to consider, the Minfilia situation and the Warrior of Darkness. All plot points that could potentially tie in with the next expansion as well.

Koji Fox is on record as having said that we will find out what is under Silvertear lake this expansion and that the Heart of Sabik would make its return as well this expansion. That to me clearly indicates that even with the Dragons dealt with we will still have something the Ascians still to play out and quite possibly the Garleans too. The Garleans are master manipulators who are implied to have even set the events in motion that lead to the fall of Allag and the following calamity. Very few people can even sense their presence if they don't want to be seen. It would surprise me greatly if they didn't at least have a hand in what the Garleans are up to. The Garleans are one of the biggest pieces on the board and there are 9 Ascians that have been out there working that we have seen no sign of. If the Ascians were able to screw with the Allag then they would be able to do similar to the Garleans.

I suspect 3.5 will end with some type of climax against Elidibus that sets the Ascian plans back, at least for a while. I think its only recently that they have actually started to see us as a realistic threat. They are complacent in a way only immortals who have had thousands of years of continued victories can be. For them victory was pretty much assured. We have been a problem but not a true opponent. I think 3.5 will firmly set up the situation where the Ascians realise that the war isn't over yet. I see them stepping back and regrouping after this.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

The Garleans are master manipulators who are implied to have even set the events in motion that lead to the fall of Allag and the following calamity.

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Garleans? master manipulators? ALLAG?

I think there are few things that don't add up (I assume you meant Ascians but I'm gonna have some fun in debating why the Garleans aren't Xanatos-tier chessmasters).


First I'm gonna address the Allag Calamity part since that seems more obvious, if only by the separation of 10 or so eras, an the fact that the only context of Allag and Garlemald is that of the latter emulating the former.

Not for the manipulator part. They certainly are intelligent, but a little bit too short-sighted for to be successfully manipulative. To go back to Allag, Nael's pet Meteor shall be the first example. Nael van Darnus claimed Allagan heritage an the country in general claimed to emulate the Allagans. They are also on attempting to stop the Primals. espite both points they didn't seem to know that the lesser moon was actualy a Deathstar powered by an Elder Primal and that the destruction would had released said primal until after the fact.

For my 2nd point, I shall point out that their only displays of manipulation are their 1.0 tempering scene, and Gaius timing Livia's slaughter of the Waking Sands with out battle with Titan (Probably the take over of Ala Mhigo too). Gaius himself was manipulated into piloting the Ultima Weapon to unleash the eponymous spell and finish what Bahamut started.

To their credit all we know about their succession issues was that Varis had his (grand?)father assassinated. We do not know the details, and given the inherent treachery of politics, I'd expect that plans and gambits to take place by all the parties involved and that Varis might be the better schemer, So under his rule, they might grow to be more manipulative and cunning. But for now, they don't really see all that bright.

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Garleans? master manipulators? ALLAG?

I think there are few things that don't add up (I assume you meant Ascians but I'm gonna have some fun in debating why the Garleans aren't Xanatos-tier chessmasters).

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I meant Ascians.... <.<

Though did you ever consider that the Ascians my be time traveling, mutated, supernatural Garleans from the future after they had conquered everything who realised the world was out of whack and doomed due to Hydealyn banishing Zodiark and as a result travelled back in time to orchestrate the return of Zodiark and change the future? After all, the Ascian Prime's forehead was hidden by that mark. There could have been a third eye there. You know who also hide their forehead behind stuff? Garleans.

Well this seems to have steered quite off course!

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Though did you ever consider that the Ascians my be time traveling, mutated, supernatural Garleans from the future after they had conquered everything who realised the world was out of whack and doomed due to Hydealyn banishing Zodiark and as a result travelled back in time to orchestrate the return of Zodiark and change the future? After all, the Ascian Prime's forehead was hidden by that mark. There could have been a third eye there. You know who also hide their forehead behind stuff? Garleans.

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Wait, where did I leave that .gif...?

http://i.imgur.com/aHDWU67.gif

... ah, there we are!

Nutcase hypotheses aside, the Word of the Mother (give us back our exposition-spouting piece of eye candy, Hydaelyn!) says that the Ascians are Zodiark's servants (as if we didn't know that yet...), meaning they are likely as old as the gods themselves or at least as old as Zodiark's grudge against Hydaelyn. (My personal hypothesis is that they may, in fact, be small fragments of Zodiark himself, but that's unverifiable at the moment.)

Back to the point - none of the Ascians have visible foreheads. All their foreheads (and eyes and noses) are concealed behind their personal mask. Elidibus has gone on record as saying that the forms we see them as are simply "crude approximations" as well, so what we see is not their true form. Furthermore, the Ascian Prime has no face at all - in fact, aside from its arms and hands it has no solid physical form, being simply a mass of shadows. (Even said arms and hands are likely hollow. Again, to throw personal hypotheses out there, the Ascian Prime may very well be closer to the Ascians' true form, achievable only by merging together thanks to Hydaelyn's "walls".)

So, remember Tsukolas' words...