TL;DR of live letter

held back by consoles,who da thunk it?

It's not like addons are horribly necessary anyway. We've survived this long without them, haven't we?

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Originally Posted by Kallera

I don't want a mess of addons, and as complicated as the game can be at times, add ons taking me through every part of the fight would feel even worse.

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Don't use them then, i won't even start the discussion that addons aren't only the DBM type, thing is atm, we don't even have a choice on what to use or how to customize our game, that is what we're asking, not a FFXIV DBM mod, that everybody needs to use, to streamline the fights.

Many things from the latest liveletter keeps me exciting (new Void Arc looks gorgeous, new grand company rank and gauß-barell invisible) but some aspects arent clearly answered yet (like inventory space, new housing area or PSO2 cross over event).

The worst part was actually about Add-Ons. If they really plan to implement the FFXIV-counterpart of WoW-Addons or something, it would be a bad idea.

Dont get me wrong. Some apps/add-ons can help, such as DPS-meters during raids, Hunt-Mob-Radars for Hunting or just the eorzea-clock for gathering. But it can also give other players a disadvantage, like early pulls in huntings or kicking players because of low damage. Thats why those add-ons arent really allowed by SE.

In my opinion, the game should be not played with Add-Ons. This is NOT WoW! FFXIV should be challenging because of having no add-ons. If you want to heal, you do it in old fashioned way without any healer-add-ons. If you want to clear T5, you have to keep an eye on Twintania all the time. Add-ons can make the game easier, but thats what I m afraid about it: those could make it too easy.

SAY NO TO ADD-ONS!

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

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This is somewhat true and i agree with bits of it, but like i said addons aren't only combat related, when will people realize this? I mostly want an UI customization addon as there isn't enough freedom to what i can do with it right now. Also if SE/players are so afraid as to what DPS parsers would do to the community, (which i don't agree btw as i never saw this, taking WoW for example) they could still release the addon interface while not allowing DPS parsers to be in place.

Anyway whether you want them or not, it seems they already exist through 3rd party software, although not very in agreement with the ToS, they're there and SE isn't really stopping them.

i say YES to add-ons!

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Originally Posted by Mael-bess

Don't use them then, i won't even start the discussion that addons aren't only the DBM type, thing is atm, we don't even have a choice on what to use or how to customize our game, that is what we're asking, not a FFXIV DBM mod, that everybody needs to use, to streamline the fights.

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yet. you are not asking for it YET.

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

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Do people not even read the live letter translations? It's already been stated, when we do get addons, they'll be cosmetic changes only.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Do people not even read the live letter translations? It's already been stated, when we do get addons, they'll be cosmetic changes only.

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Those are translations and even unoffical. Its not clear, what its all about. Maybe we will find out at a later time... .

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

Those are translations and even unoffical. Its not clear, what its all about. Maybe we will find out at a later time... .

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It's quite clear that Yoshida wants no sense of "discrimination" going on in FFXIV, or at least doesn't want to get bad players kicked out of content they're not good enough for. The raid finder was surprisingly though, considering you'd be able to queue and look for other people who have cleared the content and not newbies/people learning for the latest raiding (and EX primals, I'm assuming) content so that's nice. Regardless, I think Marko's translations are accurate.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Because divebombs, conflags, and fireball totally don't make a sound and put a huge marker over your head. Dreadknights totally don't mark and stun the person they're aggroed to, either. Seriously, now. You really need the computer to spell it out for you?

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For me, personally? I don't really need it. It'd still make it easier for people to learn the fight with them, as even with all your markers and tethers it's still difficult to get people to react to them appropriately (and god forbid you play DPS, AKA the archetype in this game where it is incredibly easy to tunnel vision). I can acknowledge that in the big picture those addons wouldn't do much, but every little bit helps.

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It didn't take you long to try your hand at villifying me for my opinion there, chief.

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I'm just anticipating the responses, since the whole "I went through this, so you have to too" is par for the course for these discussions.

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I could care less how fast other people clear it or don't clear it. You're talking to someone that loves to join learning and clear parties and used to spend Saturday nights teaching content in Party Finder so other people clearing is actually something I like seeing. I just think that the amount of hand-holding being asked for here is pretty far out there.

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As I've said before, it's still up to the players to do what's needed to not die or wipe the raid. If it takes blaring sirens or big scrolling red text to get someone to notice a mechanic or learn it, I have no qualms with that because the side benefit of it is that I'm still clearing the content due to that person not messing up and dying (leading to failed DPS checks) or not doing something that would wipe the raid.

It's kind of like teaching someone how to properly hold a musical instrument. Some people just get it naturally without much help, while others need either constant reminders or some form of additional guide in order for them to eventually get it.

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Originally Posted by raelgun

I am not a big fan of boss timers however, whats the difference between, a divebomb marker and divebomb timer? In the interest of fairness, there shouldn't even be a marker at all and every one should look at twintania in this example. The player is still getting a handholding in this respect.

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One you use (waste) additional time to set up, and, if depended on, screws over non-PCs. The other still basically comes with the countdown ringing "2"; it just skips the integers before and after it. /shrug

To be honest, if it weren't for the painfulness of spinning that camera upward while in the hole (where 90% of all parties went), I'd be fine with that. But a clipped floor and near completely blocked view makes me really appreciate that the marker's there. And when you're not using the hole strat, it's not like the marker does you any good, anyways. It's often on someone else, out of view, and either way you have to check Twintania's position to get clear. (For which reason I enjoyed it when I wasn't in the hole.)

Long story short, a lot of the hand-holding makes sense. Could you imagine if there was a "Prey" mechanic after a large, (dispellable) infirmity-causing AoE that was just a red line sent out from boss to the target to be affected just once, and the target were crippled in 6 seconds if the damage wasn't shielded? Or a random target nuke with a marker than only appeared for half a second, and required stacking or shields to survive when targets are potentially forced out of a range in which they could just run back into the raid to compensate for chance? Or if Swindler only showed how many players to a circle for 1s? These could all be dealt with with call outs and quick responses, but they leave you largely dependent on predetermined systems and/or voice chat. There is a point where it can be too much. Truly zero hand-holding can sabotage as much fun as it might first seem to provide, because we can then be distracted from the more interesting complicators of a fight just to keep our eyes ever vigilant for the finer signs within smaller mechanics. I don't think there's any chance of SE doing that, whereas they're likely to caution towards the opposite (too much hand-holding), but just for hypotheticals' sake.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I just think that the amount of hand-holding being asked for here is pretty far out there. I mean, when you have an experienced player call out the raid, that's at least a player that's sharing their experience and helping others with the timing. That's someone that took the time to learn the fight helping others do the same, not the computer reading the files clientside and calling out every skill 10 seconds in advance.

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You'd be surprised how many learning parties I've been to where PEOPLE JUST DON'T LEARN. WIPE NUMBER 700 INC PLEASE PAY ATTENTION PLEASE. Nope. Always fail. Group breaks apart. People are dumb. They probably need this amount of hand holding to actually clear anything.

Try number 15 "Dive bombs get in the ditch, dive bomb get in the ditch!" "Huh? What? I wasn't paying attention" WHAM knocked into the fire ring dead. Wipe and restart...

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Originally Posted by Krissey

You'd be surprised how many learning parties I've been to where PEOPLE JUST DON'T LEARN. WIPE NUMBER 700 INC PLEASE PAY ATTENTION PLEASE. Nope. Always fail. Group breaks apart. People are dumb. They probably need this amount of hand holding to actually clear anything.

Try number 15 "Dive bombs get in the ditch, dive bomb get in the ditch!" "Huh? What? I wasn't paying attention" WHAM knocked into the fire ring dead. Wipe and restart...

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One might as well play with AI teammates if it means that much to you.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

One might as well play with AI teammates if it means that much to you.

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Actually my horrible experience with "learning parties" and party finder in general has lead me to just skip out on content altogether. I just can't suffer the headache. I have not cleared Bismarck EX, Ravana Ex, or even half of the Extreme Primals from 2.x...I have not done Alexander, Sephirot or anything actually other than 4 man dungeons. Why? Because I don't want to waste my time wiping all day, getting nothing done, accruing huge repair bills because people just can't seem to figure out exactly what going on - and sometimes that person is me.

So I think certain addons would help immensely reduce the head ache that comes with learning fights and party finder in general. Then maybe I would actually try and do a lot of content I just won't now.