Suggestion: 99 totems = 1 lanner whistle

I approve of this idea, as someone else said:

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Originally Posted by Marxam

they addressed the bad rng in raids by introducing "pages" so even if you don't get your drop you will get it in the long run. Why wasn't this implemented in pony farming

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Originally Posted by Marxam

they addressed the bad rng in raids by introducing "pages" so even if you don't get your drop you will get it in the long run. Why wasn't this implemented in pony farming is probably just to keep people subbed longer. However I'm nearing my wits end as I don't raid anymore, pvp is just another glamour farm (no ranks for gear) with ridiculous rng and reward gates and progression is still stuck to people in statics as PF has proven to be unreliable. Sorry if I sound cynical but after seeing 4 birds and not rolling above 30 really has taken a toll on me. Don't my skills and player enjoyment count for anything or is monetization of subs more important?

If I knew there was a token system for the birds I can at least enjoy at my pace rather than deal with the frustration of not unpredictable results.

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Because the intent is to keep people queuing for that content. They like to think people will use the DF more than they do. Granted, it is quite popular in JP.

i just got my first bird and I'd still rather this system. Honestly getting it just wasnt fun. It was luck. Theres no skill involved its just pure luck

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Originally Posted by heynowjose

i just got my first bird and I'd still rather this system. Honestly getting it just wasnt fun. It was luck. Theres no skill involved its just pure luck

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Congrats! I'm still hammering away at it. Waiting for another drop. (225 runs now)

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Originally Posted by Dorander

Congrats! I'm still hammering away at it. Waiting for another drop. (225 runs now)

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I'll be there with you soon. 196 and counting

Thought I'd bump this back up for visibility. Hopefully we can get at least a response from someone.

253 run of bismark Ex. Saw my 12th whistle - Rolled an 14. Come on Square Enix. At least tell me to shut up and lock the thread because I'm going to keep bumping it with updates.

My static has been farming Bismarck EX and I run as warrior to get points towards the war bear. For the bird, I've seen one drop in about 30 runs. And of course rolled low so I didn't win. I'll probably get my bear mount first with my lack of luck with rng.

ok im getting bored 10 of my friends have got white lanner mount on their first 10 runs or less and there wondering why I seem to always lose it all the time... they ask stuff like are you sure your even rolling need on it?..... like really us people that run bishmach ex 180+ times and fail to get the mount look stupid due to were unlucky.

I've course I always roll need on it but saddly I don't have control over the low number rng always gives me....

So, I just passed my 260th run. Got me thinking: A successful Bismark Extreme can be done in about 8 minutes. Let's do some math. 260 x 8 = 2080 / 60 (hour) = 34.666666666

So, just for this one mount that I'm beginning to think I'm not going to get, I've spend a cumulative 34 and a half hours (not counting the failed runs, or the runs that took a few tries and echo) purely doing nothing but this fight. I've helped countless people get their clear in the process. So, Square Enix: Is 99 x 8 = 792 / 60 = 13.2 hours enough time spent to buy the mount or do you enjoy knowing that I've already spend 34.6 hours in this ONE dungeon just for the chance for it?

At this point in this thread, whether it's been suggested to the dev team or not, can we get some official feedback on it? Devs, community reps, hell even Yoshida, what do YOU think of this?

Edit: Perhaps 99 posts here = 1 official feedback on it? :P

99? I think 200 is better, mounts that drop from bosses aren't supposed to be easy to get. If you can buy them with tokens then at least make it 200 runs like the tank mounts.

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Originally Posted by Uhm

99? I think 200 is better, mounts that drop from bosses aren't supposed to be easy to get. If you can buy them with tokens then at least make it 200 runs like the tank mounts.

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Doesn't matter to me. I'm currently sitting with 260 expanse tokens.

Hell screw it. Make it like scrips if we wanna do that turn 99 Ravana tokens in for a Ravana Idol (or whatever) and turn 3 in for the mount.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

Hell screw it. Make it like scrips if we wanna do that turn 99 Ravana tokens in for a Ravana Idol (or whatever) and turn 3 in for the mount.

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Cause nothing says: "You earned it!" like making a mount a 40 hour job if RNG screws you over. ;)

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

At this point in this thread, whether it's been suggested to the dev team or not, can we get some official feedback on it? Devs, community reps, hell even Yoshida, what do YOU think of this?

Edit: Perhaps 99 posts here = 1 official feedback on it? :P

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The community reps are the one you should address your comments to. We have to go through them to have a dev hear anything. :P At least, that is what I've seen on the threads that have official responses, a community rep will relay some message. I have a feeling the community reps read the forums for threads that they think the devs would be interested in, pass it on to them, get a response, translate it and post it here... But, I'd imagine they have their hands full, so I doubt they respond to everything of course, probably just the few best threads they see.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

Cause nothing says: "You earned it!" like making a mount a 40 hour job if RNG screws you over. ;)

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INB4 "Primal Mounts are Special Snowflakes that must be rare or hard!" comment number 54321

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

INB4 "Primal Mounts are Special Snowflakes that must be rare or hard!" comment number 54321

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btw I wasn't just pulling that number out of thin air. At 8 minutes a pop for a successful run, at 300 runs for a mount.. that is 40 hours of NOTHING but doing an extreme run. ;)

Certain rewards should just remain as RNG otherwise you just take away from the joy of finally getting a drop you've been working so hard towards. See it's a give and take. Think about XI for a moment, there was a bunch of loot that you could only get through the luck of RNG and guess what, it was a lot harder to get that loot time wise than it is in XIV. In XI there were timed mobs that dropped unique loot and only one party could get it, kill and it hopefully get that one drop one person could use. FYI the current loot system to Savage is fairly accurate to how timed mobs worked and you know people don't always like how it can be restricted and your choice to choose is limited based on what decides to drop that week.

At least in XIV for 90% of the content or heck 95% of the content, your limiting factor is your own tenacity with the content. And at most you only have 7 others to compete with for certain rare loot. So I dunno, I think some items should remain RNG, when you start to make everything a guarantee at X you only support the idea of burning players out because they know the goal that is no longer a maybe I'll get lucky this time mentality. So if you had to do 500 to guarantee the mount, you would push those 500 fights to guarantee it and then you would burn out. In RNG style you might try 25 here and there and take a break every now and then but it's knowing that goal that can set people to go supersonic, just look at how people pushed when grinding the relic trial with the lights. They knew the goal and how many fights it would take for x content and because of that many including myself pushed because it was a known goal, not an unknown.

I agree with that. I know eventually the drop rate will go way up by next xpac but why not give a sure way to get it now.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

Cause nothing says: "You earned it!" like making a mount a 40 hour job if RNG screws you over. ;)

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Still beats killing it 300 times and still not getting it though, however all this rng for the birds to even have a chance to dropping, I just can't find it in me to even bother. What exactly do I achieve if I do grind out hours and hours to get the bird? Get to say "haha, I got it before you" when in a few months they can jump in for a fraction of the time and pretty much guarantee it. I already know someone is gonna bring up about Savage raids but birds are more cosmetic than progression.

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Originally Posted by Airget

Certain rewards should just remain as RNG otherwise you just take away from the joy of finally getting a drop you've been working so hard towards. See it's a give and take. Think about XI for a moment, there was a bunch of loot that you could only get through the luck of RNG and guess what, it was a lot harder to get that loot time wise than it is in XIV. In XI there were timed mobs that dropped unique loot and only one party could get it, kill and it hopefully get that one drop one person could use. FYI the current loot system to Savage is fairly accurate to how timed mobs worked and you know people don't always like how it can be restricted and your choice to choose is limited based on what decides to drop that week.

At least in XIV for 90% of the content or heck 95% of the content, your limiting factor is your own tenacity with the content. And at most you only have 7 others to compete with for certain rare loot. So I dunno, I think some items should remain RNG, when you start to make everything a guarantee at X you only support the idea of burning players out because they know the goal that is no longer a maybe I'll get lucky this time mentality. So if you had to do 500 to guarantee the mount, you would push those 500 fights to guarantee it and then you would burn out. In RNG style you might try 25 here and there and take a break every now and then but it's knowing that goal that can set people to go supersonic, just look at how people pushed when grinding the relic trial with the lights. They knew the goal and how many fights it would take for x content and because of that many including myself pushed because it was a known goal, not an unknown.

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First off: XIV =/= XI

Now for the real response: I'm not asking for them to remove the drop chance or even up the drop chance. I'm just asking for the exact reason they put the totems in, in the first place: To counter RNG. Sure a handful would just hammer out those 99/300/500/1000 (waiting for that last one as a suggestion) runs for it. The rest of us, who've ran about 10-15 times a day, helped countless people get clears, see the mount drop, roll pitifully, even see them go to first timers, only want a light at the end of the tunnel. That maybe After 100 (or more) successful runs of the dungeon we know that we are guaranteed a mount that we've more than put in the effort to earn.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

The rest of us, who've ran about 10-15 times a day, helped countless people get clears, see the mount drop, roll pitifully, even see them go to first timers, only want a light at the end of the tunnel. That maybe After 100 (or more) successful runs of the dungeon we know that we are guaranteed a mount that we've more than put in the effort to earn.

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This - nothing much else.

The suggestion is good and it is what I was discussing with my friend but knowing SE they won't do it. Expect an increased drop rate at the next big patch. This is what they will do and what they did back in 2.0 with the pony drop rate.

Or, you can just wait for player to get bored of this low drop rate and give up, then SE increase the drop rate to reraise the content, then people get bored again, then drop rate increased.
#ponies

I believe most of the people complaining about those pigeon never farmed the ponies at the very beginning where the drop rate was identical.
This low drop rates bores me too, but those mount would have no meaning if anyone could have have it that easily. When you get the mount atm, you got a feeling of satisfaction to know you're one of the rare who can ride it. But then? With higher drop rate / possibility to buy it with token, what will happen? "Bah, this mount isn't rare anymore, I'll just add it to my mount and never use it because everyone is riding them."
You should be thanksful to SE though. You can farm mount as much as you want. I remind the time I was playing WoW, most of the mount were 1% drop rate or below and you can only do the raid boss once a week with 10 or 25 players.

276th run, rolled an 88. got Beat by a 90. Everyone else rolled less than 30.... #bangsheadondesk

As someone who did 400+ ifrit runs at level 50 I completely agree. >_<

I wouldn't mind if the trade in was as high as 500 tokens or more, as long as I knew I would eventually get it. Farming would be a lot more enjoyable as well without being so discouraged after losing a roll. I really think it would lighten the mood, even if you're more likely to get the drop before you ever get enough tokens. (Don't get me wrong, the lower the better. haha)

(Also might help ease up on the tension for a lot of parties >_> people get extra mad about people rolling after they fall off ect. I don't think people would mind as much as long as they still got a token. It gets super awkward as a party leader when people ask you to kick someone, or leave because they don't want to lose rolls against people they don't agree with. I've seen this happen a lot. D: )

Very much in support of this; a game is supposed to be fun, not frustrating. There is literally 0 reason to want the obtainment method for the mounts to remain as is except to brag about your own good fortune getting the mount or your aspiring good fortune getting it later. These are items designed to eventually be in the possession of every player who has spent enough time trying*, so why not make a guaranteed trade of 1 mount for X totems, set that X to an appropriate number so that at least the process of obtaining it is fun, rather than contention between players in a pf or df over who deserves to roll and win it most.

*Pony rates eventually rose significantly and I myself even 2-manned garuda for Xanthos and Nightmare, as evidence of the validity of my statement.

Hit run 300 a few minutes ago. Last whistle I saw was at run 294, rolled a 6.

^ Damn that sux. RNGesus really made his point clear with you after seeing that awesome roll he gave you.

On my end, i finally got my second bird thursday.
-Got Bismarck at the 209th run.
-Got Ravana at the 88th run.
-Thordan ( i have yet to clear it lel )
-Sephirot, 23 runs so far and seen it once.

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Originally Posted by CUTS3R

^ Damn that sux. RNGesus really made his point clear with you after seeing that awesome roll he gave you.

On my end, i finally got my second bird thursday.
-Got Bismarck at the 209th run.
-Got Ravana at the 88th run.
-Thordan ( i have yet to clear it lel )
-Sephirot, 23 runs so far and seen it once.

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Yep, RNGsus must really hate me for some reason. XD

Amazingly, at run 302 I saw another one. Rolled a 77. Lost again.

50 runs of Ravana and haven't even seen a whistle drop. T_T

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Originally Posted by Nessera

50 runs of Ravana and haven't even seen a whistle drop. T_T

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Not surprising, most players have to o triple digit runs before even seeing the whistle

Best solution at the moment is just make a static for bird farm under the agreement that no one stops going bird farm sessions til everyone gets their desired mount. this way, you should need on average 160 runs per primal assuming everyone wants the mount in that particular place.

The drops arent guaranteed tho; instead of being depressed after every run that it didnt drop or that someone else won, i advise people to just count their tokens, smile, and think to yourself, "I did not earn nothing! At least I got a token"

For your statistically calculated bird-obtainment chance per quantity of runs for getting a bird based on the current estimate of 5% drop chance, see this link: eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/11322361/blog/2818576

Better solution. Redeem the tokens you get to trade for your weapon for the mount itself. Let the devs decide the number you need. This isn't hard.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Better solution. Redeem the tokens you get to trade for your weapon for the mount itself. Let the devs decide the number you need. This isn't hard.

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That's the entire point of the thread. The 99 totems was just an initial suggestion. You get 1 token per successful run of the EX primal. Running it 99, 300, 1000 times isn't the issue. The issue is doing it that many times and RNG screwing someone over (like myself) and not having a fail safe. The totems/tokens were put in to fix RNG failures with the weapons. It's only logical that they be used for the mount as well.

Honestly this system should be put in place but they won't so people will keep replaying content. That's their strategy and they prove it works.

:| I have killed bismarck 88 times, and seen the whistle drop 5-6 times, with two of them going to first timers who were dead most of the time... T^T I would love to have the 99 totems= 1 lanner whistle thing... To at least preserve my sanity...
Squeenix make this a thing!

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Honestly this system should be put in place but they won't so people will keep replaying content. That's their strategy and they prove it works.

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Honestly, unless someone's CRAZY for a specific bird, its more likely the current system will drive people from wasting time on bird farm. I know plenty of people who've already given up. I'm only still going at it 'cus one of the mounts coincidentally works for mine and my twin's RP theme. But even that's conditional - cus at some point, when I'm tired enough of eternally seeing other people besides myself win the roll, I'll stop too - and only go back when droprate's tripled. Help the newbies clear the primals? Screw that. Most western players remotely serious about farming the mount will go PF groups that say "NO NEW" or "BONUS=KICK" to make the farm as efficient, and consistent as they can. If SE really wants to keep this stuff replayed, they should put the mount in the shop for X tokens, such that X is a finite number and not infinity as it currently, mathematically is. People just want a light at the end of the tunnel - its motivation to replay this stuff more.