Did FFXIV make me racist?

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Originally Posted by Kingmanath

(excuse my english ^^)

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I don't think anyone would know you weren't a native English speaker if you didn't mention it!

What you describe with people saying random words in the language makes me cringe; the small number of English-speakers in my DF very occasionally do it to Japanese players too and blurt out anime character names, Japanese foods, or weird (and unusually inappropriate/misspelled) Japanese phrases which often just end up sounding offensive and/or borderline racist. It's not meant that way at all; the speakers think they're being clever and don't understand that people who speak multiple languages are nonplussed by the insane-sounding reactions to their existence. Though I once joined a Japanese party many years ago and mentioned that I was in the UK at the moment only for the reaction to be "DAVID BECKHAM?!" (lol).

I think that a vocal minority of English-only speakers expects special treatment and consideration because they don't realise that they're not always the majority, and this comes across rather abrasively to everyone else. It sounds as though that's happening with some of the French-only community too on other servers. It's really not hard to have a few phrases ready with a translation tool or to learn your way around the built-in auto-translate to be polite, but when people don't bother it sours people on the fun of cross-cultural communications.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

While there are, of course, many exceptions, it's the bad players everyone remembers rather than the good ones and this makes it harder for everyone who makes an effort.

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So true. people tend to remember bad things more easily.
In my case, my mother tongue is portuguese and french, i have quite a good level in english since I use it everyday for work and I can speak some basic german. I have seen good and bad in all of them.
If we take french players for example (but this is true for others too), you can kind of separate them in 3 categories:
-the good ones that only speak french and only play with other french players.
-the bad ones that only speak french and that everybody talked about in this thread (the ones people notice the most).
-the ones that speak english, good or bad, and usually end up changing their client to english or use auto-translate.

A second point is that except from players from France and Germany (and border countries who use same/similar language) all other EU countries will use english as default, making "english" players a far bigger pool.
As such, if you spot a german/french player, there is a high chance he will be bad because if he was good, he would probably not play with you or you wouldn't now he was french/german unless he told you.

First things first: I'm german (so my english wont be perfect) and while we're learning english in school I learned most of it through videogames and movies in the end - specially here because I felt the need to be able to communicate.
That leads to the problem I've got with "only german"-people: they dont make an effort. I've meet people in their twenties telling me they dont speak english - like wtf?! You've been playing this game for half a year now and didnt saw it as a great chance to finally learn that language then? By just playing a game and doing something you enjoy? Nope. Nope. Nope. Not tolerating this. (that being said: I'll still speak german to explain strats or stuff like that if they dont understand english - for the sake of a smooth run. Since I consider that highly impolite I will always apologize and give a short summary of what I've just said - specially if its including the names of the other party memembers)

I'm (jokefully) always using my "hate" towards those ignorant german-guys as excuse for hating only-french people - specially because I had to make the experience (and have been told by french friends) that they do indeed speak english - they only refuse to. I remember several runs with frenchies who didnt made an effort communicating with us - until we wiped twice, THEN they magically were able to speak english. I recall that one run in SV I had with two french-guys and a friend who does speak a little french and therefor was translating for me - I was tanking and only doing small pulls because the french healer wasnt geared that well and new too. So, what they did was making fun of that and how bored they were. In french. In party-chat. Since I got a translation I started running off like a madman pulling everything I could - we wiped, I did it again. And the miracle happend: They started speaking english! :O Letting me know they couldnt heal that much!
I'm always thinking of that dungeon run when I come across french people who fail to communicate - its either that they've refused to learn english when its a language the world more or less agreed on sharing or they refuse to speak it and to listen to it - with the later being the worse. Both have to do with ignorance though and thats something I dislike and dont tolerate.

On another note, only you can make yourself racist and fill yourself with prejudice and stereotypes.

This is a really touchy subject but I can definitely see why you're getting frustrated. There have been times when I've asked French players in auto translate if they need any help since they were consistently failing and not saying anything, and they've completely ignored me. It's a yes or no answer.

The one thing that bugs me is when people start with the whole "French players are awful", I've met a lot of lovely and skilled French players in my time as well as the bad ones.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

It made me racist.

Everytime i see a lalafel i want to see them being sent to labor camps to die under the coerthan winter. But hey, thats me.

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Testify!!!

1. It's not Racism if you're annoyed by foreign players not speaking your language. It's barely even nationalism. If you're on a North American server and you've selected English as your primary language, then your expectation is that you will be able to communicate with as well as understand your teammates. Your expectations are not unreasonable.

2. Don't feel guilty, the Japanese players feel the same way. Language barriers are incredibly annoying, and it's selfish to inflict them on others when it can be easily avoided.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest.../blog/2236845/

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Originally Posted by Serilda

And sometimes people used auto-translate thoughtlessly in a way which they thought was cute, except it sounded incredibly rude to people reading the translated version; I wish there was an in-game auto-translate dictionary so you could see what you're actually saying to the other party in their language too for the benefit of multilingual people.

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I agree on this one. Some things... just don't translate well with auto-translate ;_; It's like the English (I seem to have misplaced my keyboard.) sentence. It's a hilarious thing to say, IMO, and just makes me think of a horribly cluttered desk where the player is struggling to find their keyboard, tossing papers and whatnot around. And then the Japanese version of it is, I believe, something like "I don't use a keyboard" (It's a while since I heard it, so I could remember wrong), which doesn't sound nearly as funny ;_;
And while it's not really a case of sounding rude, it still goes to show that auto-translated sentences or even words don't always carry the same implied meaning, even when you think they would.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

they do indeed speak english - they only refuse to

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...Have relatives who have had that experience when visiting France, as well. Trying to buy something in a small shop (those over-the-counter types) without being able to do so in French means being met with blank stares. But they figured out how to get around it. Start everything with "Hi, I'm from Sweden, I'd like to buy..." and all of a sudden they understand and can speak English. :|
(Not saying that's the case with all French-speaking people, but... there is that whole history with wars between France and the UK, and... I guess some prejudices are hard to get rid of?)

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Originally Posted by Galgarion

If you're on a North American server and you've selected English as your primary language, then your expectation is that you will be able to communicate with as well as understand your teammates. Your expectations are not unreasonable.

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Just wanted to point out that North America includes Canada, which has two national languages (depending on where you live): French and English ^^; So there's really no need to single out the NA servers -- there's an equal expectation if you're on an EU server and have checked English in DF.

I just guess all countries have their own bias. Be it the frogs, the reds, the german or any other people.

In the end, the language matters little if the player is competent.

(Bonus point for anyone who could guess my nationality in game :p )

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Originally Posted by Kingmanath

Can I play ? :D

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Nope, you filthy cheater ;)

Can I play ? :D

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Originally Posted by Kingmanath

Can I play ? :D

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Only if it's Foe's Requiem ;p


(Sorry, the other songs are allowed too, of course. I'm just too well trained by the casters in my FC...)