are you missing an zero on them wipes cause if only 6-7 and dps drops that low.... caffiene is your friend try some coffie or something keeps me focussed for ages :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_Berry
DPS: Why is it so dang taboo?
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02-20-2016, 12:39 AMValkyrie-Amber
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02-20-2016, 01:36 AMbirdy_reeneI must be a rare cookie then, on my dragoon, im always lookin for advise. heck just last night I owned up to misclicking a few times. I want that A1S clear bad, so love when people give me pointers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Animarelic
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02-23-2016, 02:01 PMGaiTsutsugamiYou are literally the terrible kind of dps that makes everyone hate dealing with your role lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by TheUltimateSeph
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02-23-2016, 02:19 PMNovaLevossida
Most people in this game don't have tact and interpersonal skills. They don't know how to communicate without being rude, abrasive, and confrontational. This isn't FFXI either; they can behave like this because your reputation doesn't matter much and duty finder / data center matchmaking will still let them find other players.
Maybe a player would be open to advice with how to improve playing his role or how to manage greased lightning / enochian during phase changes. But he'll never be receptive to any suggestion the way most people say it. I mean, that's if you're making suggestions at all and not just going the confrontational route right off the bat. Know why all those duty / party finder groups break up so quick? Because they'd rather fight each other than the boss.
So maybe a player would be willing to improve. But he's just not going to care about what you have to say with the way you guys have been saying it since 2.0's launch. -
02-23-2016, 02:21 PMHysteriorFFXIV Community is pretty tame compared to other online games, trust meQuote:
Originally Posted by NovaLevossida
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02-23-2016, 02:45 PMTheUltimateSephWhy? Cause I recognize that high dps isn't necessary to clear 90% of this games content and can't understand for the life of me why everyone is so hell bent on massive numbers and insane speed all day?Quote:
Originally Posted by GaiTsutsugami
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02-23-2016, 03:15 PMF_MaximillianEssentially yes. While when you risk getting the bottom of the barrel every time you queue up in DF, people should still be able to understand that it isn't fair to those in your team (your party isn't a concept it's a team) if you don't put in any effort to do your job. Your healer doesn't need to keep you alive 24/7, your tank doesn't need to keep mobs from clawing your face off 24/7. If you die to lack of tanking and no heals it's not necessary for you to be revived as long as the tank has one mob and the healer threw out one heal they're doing the minimum of their job. Needless to say I don't think you would enjoy taking a dirtnap every run because tanks and healers also do the minimal with no respect for your time.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUltimateSeph
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02-23-2016, 03:17 PMGalgarion
If there was an in-game option that let players rate each other's skill on a scale of one-to-four stars, we would abuse it. Most of us are not objective enough to separate performance from personality. We'd give someone a high rating because we felt sorry for them, we'd give someone else a low rating for being 'mean', and we'd give truly excellent players a mediocre ranking because they didn't 'wow' us. The metrics for what impresses us will vary wildly, because we're insanely arbitrary. God, if that system existed, more than a few of you would downrank someone for writing something you disagreed with in this thread without ever having played with that person.
Personally speaking, I never trust the reviews I read on Amazon. Especially bookreviews on sensitive subjects. -
02-23-2016, 03:22 PMF_MaximillianTake it you had enough of this thread?Quote:
Originally Posted by Galgarion
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02-23-2016, 04:14 PMBourne_EndeavorNo offense, but that is a significant drop. If you're struggling this much after only six wipes, then you should bow out for a while and try again some other time. You may not have been the problem initially, but you became it. Fatigue isn't an excuse if you're still going into the raid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_Berry
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02-23-2016, 04:17 PMfeint2021
Every time I see one of these threads I'm always bent on the issue. Although I haven't played FFXIV that long (I played a lot of 1.0 but there wasn't really anything to do), I've played FFXI for years.
When ever I wanted to do a shout type party, it was expected you'd see sub par performances from any job. The results were always mixed and was to be expected. If you wanted to get things done more efficiently, you'd want to be in an active linkshell. In relation to DF, you're essentially getting the same mix of players. In my experience with partying, the casual gamer usually doesn't go above and beyond often. It's difficult for me to get upset with a player who wants to experience more difficult content but isn't a great player or doesn't really know how to get better. Hearing the argument that there are plenty of guides and videos doesn't really convince me. It takes a good amount of time to do research and to keep up with changes in game. Sure I look up shit, but that's because I want to perform the best I possibly can. The thing with duty finder, is you're letting a function put together the party for you and thus, saving you time with the party set up. And seeing how much it upsets people on these forums about bad players, I can assume you know what you sacrifice with the auto party function.
I've only ran into one party where someone really went above and beyond to explain what a player was doing wrong (Had a pissed off tone though lol). I felt bad for the whm cause I could tell she was already trying her best. Would I take her to a raid? No, but if I really wanted to get something done in any other lower tier dungeon, sure why not.
On the flip side, being grumpy and tired, I was very forward with what the DD weren't doing right. As being the healer, it's hard not to get frustrated when you have 6 mobs and the DDs run in circles rather than bring them to the tank.
I really do want to agree with OP (and others alike), but I can't quite do it. If I really want to complete something, I'll ask my FC and do my research. But if I'm relying on the DU, I'm def not going to set my expectations very high.
If you're doing higher tier content, of course it's not taboo to let the DD knows how they're performing. When it comes to other stuff, I still don't think it's taboo but I'm also not going to let it ruin my day. Cause coming here to the forums and complaining here is doing what?
Now poke the holes in my argument XD -
02-23-2016, 04:19 PMBourne_EndeavorBluntly stated, if you're doing essentially nothing half the fight. I am under no obligation to heal you. I mean, why can't I be a subpar healer who lets someone die if you get to be a subpar DPS?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUltimateSeph
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02-23-2016, 05:23 PMTheUltimateSephFine by me. When I die the healer will still get the blame. :P It's always the healers fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
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02-23-2016, 06:15 PMGalgarion
Something I've noticed a lot of in poor performing dps: they'll have a lot of max level jobs and fantastic gear, but their performance as a damage dealer will be painfully lacking, which leads me to conclude that either they're a jack of all trades and a master of none, or the job they queued as is a side project that they have no interest in mastering. It's had the interesting effect of making me dread playing with a stranger who has lot of max level jobs.
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02-23-2016, 06:22 PMNessaWyvern
>.> This also happens in pvp, where you can see everyone's numbers at the end of the match. People get salty when you point out that a whm was doing more dps than someone as a smn.
T^T One blm went right into enemy lines and got attacked by the entire enemy alliance. He then said "3 Healers can't keep me up? Wtf, I'm out."
and then left the FL. -
02-23-2016, 06:34 PMFoxyArekuTo be fair, most healers do nothing for half the fight anyway. We call these the 'anti-healer dps crowd'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
*puts up flame shield* -
02-23-2016, 07:59 PMAmelia_Pond_Behemoth
People in this game don't know constructive criticism. No matter how polite you are, if you just tell the DPS, "do you think you can step it up at this phase?" is going to be met with hostility. Why? Because it provides absolutely no new information. And if that's all the DPS is hearing from people in the name of "constructive criticism" then it's going to wear on them. They don't need to be told that they need to step it up. They want to know what specific changes need to be made!
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02-23-2016, 10:11 PMArchaellThey first need to know that they are the one person who has to do more, till then it can be viewed as the collective fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth
I do agree that telling someone to step it up is mostly useless. The person should be just advised to leave the group and read the role forums before they return back. -
02-23-2016, 10:33 PMRevenant9
I think something XI really did right and viewing the constant complaints over these situations it's really made me appreciate how vital that gameplay was to teamwork.
Basically outside of BST ( which you needed to have 30 anyway just to unlock ) back in the day, XI forced players to LEARN their job or simply not hit cap, now I'm sure a lot of hardcore casuals will be against this, and that's fine I fully endorse games having options for BOTH kinds of players, but the reality is XI literally forced 99% of the sub base to learn their job, learn it well otherwise they would not hit the level cap or even get the majority of the gear they would want.
The most important thing here as to WHY this was a good thing, comes down to WHY we see constant complaining in "modern" ( ie wow clones ) mmo's, it really started with WOW as it was the first mmo to really let you hit cap easily and solo. Most mmo's have followed this since.
Where this creates the core of the problem is, yes we understand not everyone can play for 3-4 hours a day or 24/7, but it creates a major problem in almost all mmo's for end game, this problem is that anyone can literally level up to cap fast, but play around that of a lvl 5-10.
With XI I fully admit that the xp grind was absurdly over the top, but because of being forced to xp with real people, because of facing punishments if you played stupid, and because you had to xp for so long, a massive portion of XI population played their jobs well, they knew their jobs, and they knew and prepared themselves for end game content, sure we had the odd "server feels sorry for this player" who made it to 75 ( I'm talking pre treasures here ok ) but this was a very rare thing.
What we face today is everyone being able to easily make it to cap in a few days while never really understanding mechanics, party roles and playing their job well. I love XIV and think it's a great game but it suffers issues like 99% of modern mmo's when it comes to end game situations.
The most ironic thing of all is that mmo's have become very ANTI social due to how their heavy solo emphasis is, let's be honest XIV and most mmo's might as well be ultra extended long solo rpg's, with a repetitive end game online and patch tacked on every few months, that's what mmo's are for the most part today and why we continue to see the same complaint threads week after week.
The community of XIV may indeed be "nice" compared to many mmo's today, but vs XI community in the golden age even it pales in comparison, DF is a prime example of anti social mmo behavior, I can still remember wandering around almost any location in XI and total strangers being VERY pleasant and willing to take time out to help strangers, to organize and do social things EVERY day or week with lots and lots of people, the closest thing we even see like that is perhaps some savage static content.
How many times do we hop on a df dungeon and at most there is a hello at the start ? the most social interaction I think I've seen is on raids where people rage or joke with eachother, that's the kind of social environment most mmo's have turned into, so it's no wonder with the model these games have turned into since wow that thing remain how they are, people talk about rose tinted glasses I will be the first to admit that XI was not perfect but it certainly DID create a good strong social and skilled player base, and that is something that should exist in these games still but never will as long as players are given a faceroll time to end game and not preparing them and then people screaming at them for sucking, well blame the model these games use now that the heart of the problem. -
02-23-2016, 10:38 PMGeula
When I run dungeons usually when someone tries to "give advice" to "DPS" it starts with the "mentor" throwing a "tantrum" and acting as if someone just burned down their house while the advice is basically wishy washy "git gud". There is never "can", "could", "would", "please" in the sentences, nothing concise and always authoritative tone making the "DPS" feel like the replaceable floor mop the game makes. Some people come to this game because the community advertises this game as very casual friendly, I don't know how people read that as but it can set some preconceptions to the initial impressions that can last to even to endgame or till the game ends it's service. I hate when people underperform but I won't complain about DPS/small pulls/no protect by saying "git gud" because all it could possibly do is make me wait another half to whole hour for another run. I don't open my mouth unless I know i can explain it in layman terms what's going wrong and what can be done to fix it.
I've seen also numerous complaints about levelling from 1 to 60 through fates while avoiding dungeons for most part and not learning their roles. I think the blame is on the long dungeon queues for this one, maybe the mentor roulette will fix it.