How do many of you feel about helping?

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

What do you mean call them. As in, when you enter an instance "Hello newbie, I am your mentor."? or like, call them newbie when referring to them while talking to other people? I am not sure people want to be called newbie either, and would probably just prefer you refer to them by name.

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I usually do the same, and call them by name and use the terms above when I talk about the group of them in general. Probably use 'New Players' more often than the others for that.

You dont want the answer to that. Noob has always been used as a derigatory word towards players and their incapacity either because they dont want or dont. Is an insult. Newb is also an insult somewhat when addressing soneone no matter what the intend is. We habe names use them and more important nothing ever justifies any sort of labelling. As for those that say they help you sure you do so? Or you just want them to perform so that xou can go out fast which is not helping is barely informing

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

I like helping people who try...

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This. This this this. I'll happily hold someone's hand if they 1. admit they are new to the dungeon and 2. are receptive to my tips.

I nearly had a conniption in a level 15 guildhest with 3 newbies last night when I said at the start, "Kill all the adds, kill a fire sprite when it pops, but don't kill the turtle." I was healing on AST and I ended up having to take care of two adds myself. When the fire sprite pops, I put the ban marker on the turtle and repeated "do not kill the turtle - go kill the fire sprite." By now the turtle is 10% health and I'm panicking - you shouldn't lose a level 15 guildhest. "DO NOT KILL THE TURTLE" I say about three times in chat. The newbies finally woke up out of their confused stupor and stopped beating on it. (I also had to say "Bring the turtle here" three times after I lit the fire patch. Oy vey.)

Yeah I don't know when noob started being a good thing. I've seen "noob" as the insult but "newb" or "newbie" as someone who's genuinely still learning/actually new.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

What do you mean call them. As in, when you enter an instance "Hello newbie, I am your mentor."? or like, call them newbie when referring to them while talking to other people? I am not sure people want to be called newbie either, and would probably just prefer you refer to them by name.

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I frequently go "Oh yay newbies!" every time I see a new player bonus.
I love newbies.

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

Yeah I don't know when noob started being a good thing. I've seen "noob" as the insult but "newb" or "newbie" as someone who's genuinely still learning/actually new.




I frequently go "Oh yay newbies!" every time I see a new player bonus.
I love newbies.

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Oh yes, I have been known to say "Blessed be the noobs!" when bonus pops up. I hope they did not take it offensively.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Oh yes, I have been known to say "Blessed be the noobs!" when bonus pops up. I hope they did not take it offensively.

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My relic grind is funded by new player bonuses. Praise the Twelve for new subs!

and invest in fireworks, even the harshest criticism is dulled by a light show. "Blessed be thy Noobs" followed by a well placed Storm Tracer will score you their comm at the very least ;D

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Originally Posted by Arrius

We got different sources and experiences with this. I, however, see the term 'noob' as someone who can be a new player, but is not willing to learn or change. And those are probably not the type we will see in the mentor program anyway.

Hence I will call those who do want to get better and admit their error 'newbie/newb', or the 'new player'/'Leaf', rather than plaster them with the negativity that comes with the term 'noob'.

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We can agree to disagree, but you're still using it wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informal_fallacy

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Originally Posted by Arrius

That is rude.

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o.O???

https://media.giphy.com/media/Qls5swhnd2mv6/giphy.gif

Grow some skin, amigo. I'm just pointing out a fact that your usage is subjective when my definition is objectively true.
I'm sorry if you feel offended.

I love helping people, it is one of the greatest joys in this game.

@noob/newbie:

At least where I come from, "noob" is a very negative term and ONLY refers to a really bad player in general. That includes people who are bad because they are new as well as those who are seasoned players but still suck.
So people say "OMG, you are all such noobs!" and it's meant as an insult as in "You all play as if you were completely new to the fight and have no clue about anything".

"Newbie" on the other hand specifically means "player new to the game/content" without any positive or negative connotation. So of course, I keep "noob" out of my vocabulary, since I refuse to insult people over a game.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

We can agree to disagree, but you're still using it wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informal_fallacy

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I can agree to disagree, but don't bring up such a offer while you still try to correct me.

That is rude.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

@noob/newbie:

At least where I come from, "noob" is a very negative term and ONLY refers to a really bad player in general. That includes people who are bad because they are new as well as those who are seasoned players but still suck.
So people say "OMG, you are all such noobs!" and it's meant as an insult as in "You all play as if you were completely new to the fight and have no clue about anything".

"Newbie" on the other hand specifically means "player new to the game/content" without any positive or negative connotation. So of course, I keep "noob" out of my vocabulary, since I refuse to insult people over a game.

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Yep, never learned it different here than this.

@noob/newbie
Been playing MMO's for 12 years in multiple regions.
Noob has always been considered an insult for bad players,while Newbie,Newcomer,New Player, are all synonymous for meaning a brand new player.

Noob has also in the past and present been used to say a veteran is acting like a new player when they know better.
'hey gaiz how do u use jump button?","Lol stop! You're acting like such a noob."

Noob has never been a friendly happy term meaning new player as far as I'm aware.

Newbie is the correct usage for a new player.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

@noob/newbie
Been playing MMO's for 12 years in multiple regions.
Noob has always been considered an insult for bad players,while Newbie,Newcomer,New Player, are all synonymous for meaning a brand new player.

Noob has also in the past and present been used to say a veteran is acting like a new player when they know better.
'hey gaiz how do u use jump button?","Lol stop! You're acting like such a noob."

Noob has never been a friendly happy term meaning new player as far as I'm aware.

Newbie is the correct usage for a new player.

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in your given quote, the term noob is not used to describe someone who is veteran and should know better. "You're acting like such a noob." Noob is referring to what they are acting like, not what they are. "You are acting like a child" does not mean that child now means an adult who is immature.

I concede that a great many of you seem to use Noob in a derogatory manner. I personally have never seen it used this way and generally refrain from speaking to people in a derogatory manner. So, the idea that noob is an insult is foreign to me. However, I accept you use it in an insulting manner, perhaps you can accept that I don't.

In terms of my credentials, not that I think it really matters, I have been playing Video games for 30 years and have been playing online games for 21 years.

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

Yeah I don't know when noob started being a good thing. I've seen "noob" as the insult but "newb" or "newbie" as someone who's genuinely still learning/actually new.




I frequently go "Oh yay newbies!" every time I see a new player bonus.
I love newbies.

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I love newbies too, especially when they're eager to learn and improve. Some are really nice and actually good players.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

snip.

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First off there were two sets of quotes. One makes very little sense if read without the other.

I was also never arguing your use of it. Just against another player who said Noob and Newbie are exactly the same thing and even argued that they were right and another player was wrong 100% without any actual research. Noob by definition has a more negative history of use.

I could probably spend all day finding chats, references, screenshots, showing the way Noob is used in gaming to insult others, and it wouldn't be very hard either.

http://www.etymonline.com/

noob (n.)
c. 2000 in gamer slang, variant of newbie; often used interchangeably with it, but also often with a more derogatory shade of meaning; newbies owe their clueless behavior to lack of experience and can improve, while the fundamental characteristic of noobs is incorrigible obnoxiousness or stupidity.

newbie (n.)
"newcomer, new person to an existing situation," by 1969, from new with diminutive or derogatory suffix. Perhaps originally U.S. military slang. Compare noob. Middle English had newing "a new thing" (early 15c.); new was used as a noun meaning "naval cadet during first training on a ship" (1909); and newie "new thing" is recorded from 1947.

http://geekdictionary.computing.net/define/noob

Definitely not a real dictionary, however since these are user posted, it should show you how people believe the word is used.


Neither way to use Noob are 100% wrong, but to say it has never been meant to be insulting is terribly wrong. Anyone who has ever played CoD or Runescape before among many other games know how often the word is used as an insult.

But things are different these days I think?

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Originally Posted by Cynric

Filibuster of Confirmation Bias and subjective interpretation.

Definitely not a real dictionary, however since these are user posted, it should show you how people believe the word is used.

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This argument is dead. Objectively, Noob is a variation of "Newbie" , slang terms are irrelevant. What you refer to as the definition of "noob" is actually "nub" if we are being completely objective.

If you wish to use noob as derogatory, do so! This isn't Russia; point is your subjective interpretation of noob is not the actual definition of the word and no amount of argument is going to change that.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

First off there were two sets of quotes. One makes very little sense if read without the other.

I was also never arguing your use of it. Just against another player who said Noob and Newbie are exactly the same thing and even argued that they were right and another player was wrong 100% without any actual research. Noob by definition has a more negative history of use.

I could probably spend all day finding chats, references, screenshots, showing the way Noob is used in gaming to insult others, and it wouldn't be very hard either.

http://www.etymonline.com/

noob (n.)
c. 2000 in gamer slang, variant of newbie; often used interchangeably with it, but also often with a more derogatory shade of meaning; newbies owe their clueless behavior to lack of experience and can improve, while the fundamental characteristic of noobs is incorrigible obnoxiousness or stupidity.

newbie (n.)
"newcomer, new person to an existing situation," by 1969, from new with diminutive or derogatory suffix. Perhaps originally U.S. military slang. Compare noob. Middle English had newing "a new thing" (early 15c.); new was used as a noun meaning "naval cadet during first training on a ship" (1909); and newie "new thing" is recorded from 1947.

http://geekdictionary.computing.net/define/noob

Definitely not a real dictionary, however since these are user posted, it should show you how people believe the word is used.

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I began the noob vs newbie vs newb cycle (sorry for derailing the thread OP!) The rest of the quote doesn't change the meaning of the word noob in your original quote. Again, noob on it's own is not an offensive word here, but the entire sentence is. Similarly to saying "You are such a child" where the sentence is meant in a demeaning way, but the word child is not negative.
'hey gaiz how do u use jump button?","Lol stop! You're acting like such a noob."
'hey gaiz how do u use jump button?","Lol stop! You're acting like such a newb."
'hey gaiz how do u use jump button?","Lol stop! You're acting like such a newbie."
All of these could be said, all of them could be insulting.

I also said I respect that some people have used noob in a negative way in the past. I frankly find it surprising, because after 21 years of online play, I've never seen it used negatively. Either that, or I was totally oblivious to the negative connotation of their statement.

From all of the examples so far given in this thread of noob being an insult, it was more the context of which it was given. Such as above, and "****ing noob" vs "****ing healer" Both are equally offensive, but I doubt anyone would argue "healer" is offensive.

Your own definition says noob is used interchangeabley with newbie.

Anyway, this debate has gone on long enough. As mentioned, "
I concede that a great many of you seem to use Noob in a derogatory manner. I personally have never seen it used this way and generally refrain from speaking to people in a derogatory manner. So, the idea that noob is an insult is foreign to me. However, I accept you use it in an insulting manner, perhaps you can accept that I don't."

Going to let the thread get back on topic now.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

This argument is dead. Objectively, Noob is a variation of Newbie" slang terms are irrelevant. What you refer to as "noob" is actually "nub" if we are being completely objective.

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You're on a Video game forum, using Video game jargon.

If you're going to argue someone else is wrong you should be able to back it up. If you're even wrong about its use in slang for Computers and Video Games when you're talking about users of computers and Video games you're still wrong.

You're right the argument is dead. You've already gotten multiple responses from multiple people. If you're going to be a wall and assume you're right no matter what is presented to you fine be my guest. But every other user on the forum can see that's the way you work as well.

@Kaurie: You're fine for using it either way you want. Because it can mean one thing or another. it's just more typically been used as an insult.However, like I said in my previous post, you're also not the person who had the attitude of "Only my definition is right and no one else's"

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Originally Posted by Cynric

If you're going to argue someone else is wrong you should be able to back it up.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-helping/page8

https://media.giphy.com/media/c4IJ3zPP5CA1O/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-helping/page8

https://media.giphy.com/media/c4IJ3zPP5CA1O/giphy.gif

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You posted a definition with no source. I don't see your point.

No source = questionable.

Not knowing it's been used as an insult before = not enough research.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I also said I respect that some people have used noob in a negative way in the past. I frankly find it surprising, because after 21 years of online play, I've never seen it used negatively. Either that, or I was totally oblivious to the negative connotation of their statement.

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It's a term which gained its stigma in the years when First Person Shooters were a rising trend, from classic Counter-Strike to modern day Call of Duty/Battlefield, among the many other terms that originated from there and bled over to other genres with competitive elements.

Is constant wipes enough for you to stop helping PUGs?

nah, i'm very patient and will have fun with it regardless

Does people who do more joking that fighting make you stop?

nope - if they can multitask it without fucking the whole raid then it's cool

Are you the type who leave at the sign of "bonus" popping on the screen?

and miss out on said bonus? definitely not my style - swing them tomes, new guy(s)

https://media.giphy.com/media/TLayDh2IZOHPW/giphy.gif

(no bonus is fine too)

I'll stay still the end but to a maximum of 5 wipes and who would turn down on those tomes :D since now is the time to hoard those tomes for my anima......

I enjoy helping others, but recently stopped. After helping in two "watch all CS" Praetorium runs, I got fed up with the lack of gratitude from the new people. Would it really kill people to say a simple, "hello" and/or "thank you" to the people who helped you out?