My concerns about a "worldless model" what are yours?

Rokien isn't a people person is he? Anyways here's a Quote from a Movie I watched yesterday!

Name this Movie from this Quote:

" The Last Melon".....

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Thanks for the tip but I'll continue to fight tooth and nail for the type of game I want. If content finder ends up making the game less enjoyable for me I will pack my bags and leave but until that time...

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You seem to think that any of use have that much swing, just look at the primal loot situation, we have been QQing about it for months now and nothing has been done about it.

I sure as hell know I'm not going to change Yoshida's mind on something he is determined to add to the game, so why would you be any different ?

If he wanted our opinion specifically about content finder and instancing he would make a poll.

You spelled Melon wrong...

...Ice Age 2

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

You spelled Melon wrong...

...Ice Age 2

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Yes I did spell it wrong didn't I? lolz

and Its actually in the first Ice Age " in the Movie I watched the first one, but its all the same really! :D

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Instanced doesn't mean you have to use the content finder though.

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I don't think you understand it's the Instanced that bothers me, I don't want my MMO turned into a Multiplayer game where I just que up or go with only my friends to a 8 man dungeon that is devoid of the whole MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER part of the game when the focus isn't very massive at all....

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I sure as hell know I'm not going to change Yoshida's mind on something he is determined to add to the game, so why would you be any different ?

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Because I don't just lay down and take it. I can at least say I tried my best to get my point across wether Yoshida changes his mind or not all I can do is make sure that I and people of like mind are heard.

Not doing so would be a disservice to everyone.

Telling people to not speak their mind is the worst thing you can do, so please stop doing so.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I don't think you understand it's the Instanced that bothers me, I don't want my MMO turned into a Multiplayer game where I just que up or go with only my friends to a 8 man dungeon that is devoid of the whole MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER part of the game when the focus isn't very massive at all....

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"My MMO?" Last I checked we have other people playing this game?

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Originally Posted by Starlord

"My MMO?" Last I checked we have other people playing this game?

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Sorry, this MMO. used the word MY as in context of it being the MMO I am playing, the semantics don't change the point so feel free to actually counterpoint me if you want.

I have seldom come across "griefers" in WoW, and when you do you get to kick them. At the same time I haven't even ran LFD with 50 different players because I have a guild and run with guild members [and Dungeon Finder has been out since 2009ish].

At the same time I understand the shortfalls of the LFD and LFR systems in WoW - mainly that community is destroyed, and guilds mean nothing to the players. Two potential solutions to these problems are either making the LFC drops inferior to non-LFC organizations, or putting a quota on how many times content must be ran on a server before the option becomes available for LFC; this could likely be better accomplished by beginning a timer after the content has been cleared the first time.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Sorry, this MMO. used the word MY as in context of it being the MMO I am playing, the semantics don't change the point so feel free to actually counterpoint me if you want.

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If you read my Long Post that will be my Counter.. because I think I talked the life out of me with this discussion :/.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ts-the-problem

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Originally Posted by Starlord

If you read my Long Post that will be my Counter.. because I think I talked the life out of me with this discussion :/.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ts-the-problem

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Fair enough, then I don't understand the post that was nit-picking my choice of words though...

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Fair enough, then I don't understand the post that was nit-picking my choice of words though...

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Because it explains why it won't hurt the game in General.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Because it explains why it won't hurt the game in General.

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You nit-picking my choice of words in a post explains why a worldless world wont hurt the game? I'm amazed.

But seriously it doesn't answer any of the issues I have, and why I think it CAN hurt the game.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Telling people to not speak their mind is the worst thing you can do, so please stop doing so.

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Is that what you think I am saying ? seriously .. I wonder why I bother sometime.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

You nit-picking my choice of words in a post explains why a worldless world wont hurt the game? I'm amazed.

But seriously it doesn't answer any of the issues I have, and why I think it CAN hurt the game.

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Explain to me the definition of a "Worldless Model". Do you mean everything being Instanced? If that's the case, you have to look at the whole game in General and whats going to be in them. Things that will be Instanced are Primals/Dungeons. That's all really, the rest will fall under Open World. and we been told theres going to be alot of Missions/Quests to raise your rank within your Company. PvP won't be instanced ( Frontlines at least), Wandering Odin, Campaign, Strongholds etc.

When you look at the whole picture in General, Is this game really going to be "Worldless?"

Pack your bags Jynx.



Anyways since common sense is so rare that it is considered a superpower, lets wait and see how this feature will work in this game, and then complain about what we do know instead of speculating.

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Originally Posted by Platinumstorm

I have seldom come across "griefers" in WoW, and when you do you get to kick them. At the same time I haven't even ran LFD with 50 different players because I have a guild and run with guild members [and Dungeon Finder has been out since 2009ish].

At the same time I understand the shortfalls of the LFD and LFR systems in WoW - mainly that community is destroyed, and guilds mean nothing to the players. Two potential solutions to these problems are either making the LFC drops inferior to non-LFC organizations, or putting a quota on how many times content must be ran on a server before the option becomes available for LFC; this could likely be better accomplished by beginning a timer after the content has been cleared the first time.

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You are going to have people who don't guild up for whatever reason, I often leave guilds because I don't want to be taking up space if I know I'm not going to play much or at all for a while, when you come back it's nice to have a bigger pool of people to dip in to get older content done.

There's other types of people who play this game besides the vocal ones on this forum and on your LS. It's easy to think they don't exist when you are exposed to them a lot, but there are people who will find this feature useful.

It should never become an excuse f

Arrrg replying from an iPod ... Anyway the feature should never become an excuse for guild mates to not want to help out lower end players or whatever. If your LS cares about you they will Play with you no?
Let's not blame the game for bad behavior.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Explain to me the definition of a "Worldless Model". Do you mean everything being Instanced? If that's the case, you have to look at the whole game in General and whats going to be in them. Things that will be Instanced are Primals/Dungeons. That's all really, the rest will fall under Open World. and we been told theres going to be alot of Missions/Quests to raise your rank within your Company. PvP won't be instanced ( Frontlines at least), Wandering Odin, Campaign, Strongholds etc.

When you look at the whole picture in General, Is this game really going to be "Worldless?"

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We have little idea of what 2.0 will bring as far as we have been told all non instanced dungeons we have are undergoing a instancing make-over I don't see why they wouldn't do this for the strongholds either. PVP could for all we know be totally instanced (I actually imagine it would) almost all the content aside from the small spat of content they said would be open world (Odin) could be turned into a instance.

I'd love to sit back and wait for more information to trickle in, and I plan on doing so if I was dead set on thinking it would turn out to be my worst nightmare I would allready be gone. I'm looking at a worst case scenario for me, where everything for the most part is getting tied up into instances so people can use the world finder.

I understand the view may be a little overboard but I generally expect the worst until I hear otherwise. I have faith Yoshida has better plans for the game but with the team not being very forthcoming with information (Because people throw fits when they don't hit a deadline or something, or change their minds) all we can do is speculate.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Is that what you think I am saying ? seriously .. I wonder why I bother sometime.

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Then please do explain what you meant by telling me that it's a moot point to speak our minds about the subject. If I misunderstood your intent please correct me because what I said is what I took your statement for.

I totally understand if anyone finds this post tl;dr. ;)

I hope you can hear a lower-level fella like myself out, but I feel like this is something worth discussing, and as I'm paying just like the rest of you high levelers, please bare with me. I may lack experience of the end-game, but I like to think that I am still experiencing the overall game in a slower and different way to the rest of you. :) Perhaps you can call it a different perspective, or a different path?

I have never experienced a Dungeon Party Finder (or whatever it's called) before. Now, I know a lot of people get pretty dismissive of people's opinions when they lack experience... I see it a lot throughout these forums. In my case, I have concerns rather than outright rage over the new system. Perhaps you more experienced people can advise me on my concerns. =]


Anyway. My concerns are to do with community, like many have mentioned. If you want to hear the story of how I got into this game, feel free to keep reading the immediate below paragraphs. If not, skip to the much lower ********* line. :)

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I play without an active linkshell. Eventually I anticipate it will become active once again, as I am feeding back to a number of people who want to begin playing the game at 2.0 / PS3 release / the coming months. My recent feedback upon rejoining about 2-4 weeks ago has encouraged them. The strongest, most positive feedback I have given them is that of the community.

I have no trouble whatsoever with getting a party together. The longest I have waited is probably around 15-20 minutes. I have partied with people well above my level on occasion when doing job-unlocking missions, and some might say that ruins the fun of the mission because it takes away from the overall experience, but these are not things that the dungeon party finder will help with anyway. I simply struggled to get four people who were interested in that specific mission, but luckily my efforts in making my shouts a bit more interesting than many of the more basic shouts you may see in Ul'dah worked to my benefit and I had that four-man party together within five minutes.

The 15-20 minute wait was an experience party for L34-38. It was mostly down to people taking a while to get there, but we were all happy to wait because we were socialising in the meantime. I adore the friendliness I experience when dealing with members found by simply making use of the Search function, shouts and tells. I worry I won't get this kind of social aspect when going into a dungeon finder. It is that very social side of things that is what has kept me and my girlfriend coming back since we checked to see how the game has progressed, and if we lacked that end of things we may well have just fed back to our friends that the game is still lacking.

Someone mentioned that Search is not a used feature. I use it. It has minor flaws, sure, but I have found many people, some seeking, some not, when partying by using the Search function. It is not something you should be so dismissive of. It might not get you a party in five minutes, but it is a great way of getting replacement party members when someone leaves, as it is also useful for starting off a party when you only have one or two people on your friends list online.

Basically, all my friendships have been built up by having those 5-10 minute waits. I have got to know people when running around on the open world, which I will still be able to do, and I really appreciate this. If the game was to lose or downgrade the importance of open-world play, I would almost undoubtedly leave the game, because the community is what makes me want to stay, and soon enough I hope I will get to that L50 and start helping other lower level people. It reminds me of Journey - eventually you may get your white robe and then it is up to you to guide others towards the same goal. I hope to be that kind of player.

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Concern #1: When the dungeon party finder comes along, and if so many people turn to it as the primary method of getting parties, will I still be able to gather these kind of friendships? Will open-world experience parties still be an important part of the game? Will people still take the time to talk to one another on a large scale within, in my case, Sargatanas?

I worry that when I shout out asking for members to help me party, I may end up having people shout back at me that I should shut up and use the dungeon party finder. I worry that finding a party for open-world experience will be tricky because everyone will be off partying in dungeons. I worry that it will be less and less often that I will party with people within my own world's community, and as such will get to know less people and it will not be such a welcoming experience.

Concern #2: If I walk into a dungeon with a group of people who are not based in my world, will I still get the same social feedback? Will people be interested in getting to know someone if it is unlikely they will meet very often again, if at all? Will they show the same respect?

I worry that people may be ruder as there is nobody to call them out on it within their own server. When someone is rude within a world in a populated area, they quickly gather a reputation - or so I'm told, anyway. In all honesty, I have yet to meet these kind of people, which as I mentioned is part of why I have returned and am encouraging others to do the same. But if they are not part of your world/server, they may not get that reputation as they won't see you again often if at all, and people within that player's world wil not be able to pass on the reputation. In some cases, the people within that player's world may never know what they are like when they are partying with players of another world! Rude behaviour may rise due to the lack of repercussions.

I would really like the option to search for additional members, and not an entire party. If I have a group of 4 LS members, then we should be able to recruit 3 additional members to do content with.

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Originally Posted by Wincy

YESSS this, so this. The Adventurer's Guild has gone through great lengths to steal us a copy of the Empire's Content Finder device. "Many Bothans died to bring us this information..." :) Now if we can only bring them a repaired transistor, they can give us our very own!

No dude you missed the point I was trying to convey. I don't care so much about the convenience of the system, whether or not I have to walk, etc. I care about the system fitting logically within the game world!

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Explain how it doesn't fit with the game's world, or actually do you even know what the world's world is? As this is a 2.0 feature and 2.0 will be drastically different from what you have now, so how can you say it won't fit?

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Originally Posted by Jynx

We have little idea of what 2.0 will bring as far as we have been told all non instanced dungeons we have are undergoing a instancing make-over I don't see why they wouldn't do this for the strongholds either. PVP could for all we know be totally instanced (I actually imagine it would) almost all the content aside from the small spat of content they said would be open world (Odin) could be turned into a instance.

I'd love to sit back and wait for more information to trickle in, and I plan on doing so if I was dead set on thinking it would turn out to be my worst nightmare I would allready be gone. I'm looking at a worst case scenario for me, where everything for the most part is getting tied up into instances so people can use the world finder.

I understand the view may be a little overboard but I generally expect the worst until I hear otherwise. I have faith Yoshida has better plans for the game but with the team not being very forthcoming with information (Because people throw fits when they don't hit a deadline or something, or change their minds) all we can do is speculate.



Then please do explain what you meant by telling me that it's a moot point to speak our minds about the subject. If I misunderstood your intent please correct me because what I said is what I took your statement for.

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Two PvP venues, Coliseum and Frontlines, to be released after version 2.0. Unique zones to be created so
as not to affect non-participating players. Release of PvP-specific abilities, gear, and ranking

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That means it won't be Instanced.

And you just said the magic words that everyone needs to see:

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We have little idea of what 2.0 will bring

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So really, all this talk we are doing is just "Speculation"

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Originally Posted by Sabaku_Usagi

I would really like the option to search for additional members, and not an entire party. If I have a group of 4 LS members, then we should be able to recruit 3 additional members to do content with.

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This would be ideal, I hope we are not getting a system that's just one way or the other. The more flexible it is the better.

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Originally Posted by Sabaku_Usagi

I would really like the option to search for additional members, and not an entire party. If I have a group of 4 LS members, then we should be able to recruit 3 additional members to do content with.

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Is that not what the Search function is for? It works wonders for me when I use it for this. The annoying part is that many people who are listed as seeking party are actually AFK, so perhaps the system would work slightly better if those who were AFK for, say, 5-10 minutes were listed as idle instead of "seeking party".

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Originally Posted by Loony_BoB

Is that not what the Search function is for? It works wonders for me when I use it for this. The annoying part is that many people who are listed as seeking party are actually AFK, so perhaps the system would work slightly better if those who were AFK for, say, 5-10 minutes were listed as idle instead of "seeking party".

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Was about to say the same thing

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Originally Posted by Loony_BoB

Is that not what the Search function is for? It works wonders for me when I use it for this. The annoying part is that many people who are listed as seeking party are actually AFK, so perhaps the system would work slightly better if those who were AFK for, say, 5-10 minutes were listed as idle instead of "seeking party".

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Search function helps you see who's seeking party

Dungeon finder helps you see who needs a party to be filled. Yeah you're right is almost the exact same thing accept from the other point of view.

Well if we're gonna be able to match and pair up with other players, can we at least see some sort of skill level/accomplishments? So at least we know we're not being paired up with people with little experience in dungeons/instances and can avoid any inconvience that may cause to veteran players?

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Originally Posted by Loony_BoB

Is that not what the Search function is for? It works wonders for me when I use it for this. The annoying part is that many people who are listed as seeking party are actually AFK, so perhaps the system would work slightly better if those who were AFK for, say, 5-10 minutes were listed as idle instead of "seeking party".

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Not sure if you meant exp party, but from what I understand, the party finder system is aimed for dungeons/instance, and not primarily for open world EXP party.

Ya'll make my head hurt...

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Originally Posted by Starlord

That means it won't be Instanced.

And you just said the magic words that everyone needs to see:



So really, all this talk we are doing is just "Speculation"

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Making unique zones doesn't mean not instanced...either way I don't care if PVP is isntanced or not.

There is also nothing wrong with speculation.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Making unique zones doesn't mean not instanced...either way I don't care if PVP is isntanced or not.

There is also nothing wrong with speculation.

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Nothing wrong yes, But also Speculation can get way out of control, as you are well aware.

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Originally Posted by FlynnRider

Well if we're gonna be able to match and pair up with other players, can we at least see some sort of skill level/accomplishments? So at least we know we're not being paired up with people with little experience in dungeons/instances and can avoid any inconvience that may cause to veteran players?

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You mean outside of the level of their class/job? Who would judge the "skill" level? How can you know what skill level they are at without playing with them at least once? Are you not able to advise them when they are doing something wrong, and help them improve? How are you expecting these players to gain the kind of experience you demand of them?

This is a MMORPG, not a LAN party, after all. There are multiple players online to a level that can be described as 'massive'. You play an MMO in order to play with a massive number of people, surely, rather than to play with a few?

Sorry, just got a little thrown by your post. It struck me as odd!

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Originally Posted by Andrien

Not sure if you meant exp party, but from what I understand, the party finder system is aimed for dungeons/instance, and not primarily for open world EXP party.

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Do you mean that a four person party is already in a dungeon and is looking for additional party members? Or do you mean that you are a four person party about to start a dungeon, but would like four more members? If the latter, have you ever tried looking for those who are seeking parties to ask them if they are interested in doing a dungeon/instance? Surely it's just a case of them saying "Sure, I want something to do, and I'll get the related mission ready now!"?

I don't know about you guys, but 'seeking party' doesn't mean "seeking open-world party". It means "I'd like something to do, and I'm not in a party, so I'm seeking a party so I can do something."

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Originally Posted by Loony_BoB

Do you mean that a four person party is already in a dungeon and is looking for additional party members? Or do you mean that you are a four person party about to start a dungeon, but would like four more members? If the latter, have you ever tried looking for those who are seeking parties to ask them if they are interested in doing a dungeon/instance? Surely it's just a case of them saying "Sure, I want something to do, and I'll get the related mission ready now!"?

I don't know about you guys, but 'seeking party' doesn't mean "seeking open-world party". It means "I'd like something to do, and I'm not in a party, so I'm seeking a party so I can do something."

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I think what the devs meant to say by that post is that you can seek a dungeon, but for the purpose of leveling in that dungeon. There is more than one thing you can do in dungeons right now, such as AF quests, general quests, and speed/item runs.

Leveling in dungeons isn't something that happens now, but I would hope that with the release of the content finder, they would boost overall experience gain from dungeons to make leveling via dungeons more viable than leves and open world grinding.

I would be pretty devestated if leveling in dungeons became the primary way of growing in experience, as that would mean that people would 'grow' seperately from those on their own server and would be less likely to get a sense of the community they are becoming a part of. :( That sounds like a very sad situation. I feel that a instances should be for special items, end-game content and perhaps special missions. But you should always have a good reason to party in the open world, too, and at the moment I believe experience is the main reason for people to do that. Well, in my limited experience of FFXIV, anyway! :)

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Originally Posted by Loony_BoB

I would be pretty devestated if leveling in dungeons became the primary way of growing in experience, as that would mean that people would 'grow' seperately from those on their own server and would be less likely to get a sense of the community they are becoming a part of. :( That sounds like a very sad situation. I feel that a instances should be for special items, end-game content and perhaps special missions. But you should always have a good reason to party in the open world, too, and at the moment I believe experience is the main reason for people to do that. Well, in my limited experience of FFXIV, anyway! :)

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Going to speculate for once and say I don't believe it will be devastating since they have level requirement, and most of them is already Lv45+ Getting the last 5 levels should not hurt. I don't know when lvl limit will increase

A little bit of everything would be ideal. Some worldless dungeon hacking wont hurt... as long as they leave a little of the good ole wandering monster hunt with our friends (or solo) there for those of us who love it.

Whatever gives the greatest freedom of choice and variety is the best course for everything involved.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I don't think you understand it's the Instanced that bothers me, I don't want my MMO turned into a Multiplayer game where I just que up or go with only my friends to a 8 man dungeon that is devoid of the whole MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER part of the game when the focus isn't very massive at all....

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And I keep telling you all that there's no way in hell the game is going to be 100% instanced. They're not re-doing all of the maps just so you can walk around them and do nothing else. They will continue adding both instanced and open-world content, I can assure you of that.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

And I keep telling you all that there's no way in hell the game is going to be 100% instanced. They're not re-doing all of the maps just so you can walk around them and do nothing else. They will continue adding both instanced and open-world content, I can assure you of that.

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Exactly... why in the heck are they wasting A LOT of Resources on the Maps.. just so it will be Empty... Common Sense People! ( Majority of the Resources is doing those Maps lol)

I hope you guys are right, personally I hope E3 clears up alot of confusion.