How2LNC the Carraway Way

lovely well this was posted before that

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Since you are all discussing stat changes, post patch 1.19, I thought I'd pass along some info regarding the changes to stats that we received from Triairy. It looks like he left off physical evasion, so I'll bug him about it. ;)

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STR: Attack Power
DEX: Physical Attack Accuracy/Block Rate/Parry Rate
VIT: Defense/Enhancing Magic/Max HP
INT: Attack Magic Potency
MND: Healing Magic/Magic Accuracy
PIE: Magic Evasion/Enfeebling Magic/Max MP

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post408350

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Originally Posted by Krausus

lovely well this was posted before that

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My guess, bad translation.
Str does affect damage, it just doesn't affect attack power.

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Originally Posted by Akuun

My guess, bad translation.
Str does affect damage, it just doesn't affect attack power.

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Yea, lost in translation is a good term for this forum.

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Originally Posted by Belial

Yea, lost in translation is a good term for this forum.

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Neither English or Japanese are easy languages, you have many words in both languages that mean similar but slightly different things, as well as words that mean many different things. It's possible even for someone that grew up speaking both languages to miscommunicate something in a translation.

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Originally Posted by Akuun

Neither English or Japanese are easy languages, you have many words in both languages that mean similar but slightly different things, as well as words that mean many different things. It's possible even for someone that grew up speaking both languages to miscommunicate something in a translation.

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I know this. It was more of a remark towards users of the forum who misread information in their own language, but yes both are difficult. English moreso, I'd say. Though I don't speak Japanese, so I couldn't say. French however was an extremely easy language to pick up on... But I live in a bilingual area.

I'm in agreement, but upon second read I can easily see how you took it this way.

Akuun, I'm interested in seeing the data you have that demonstrates to you that ATK is more valuable, point-for-point, than STR.

As far as I can tell, there is no interdependent relationship between the two, meaning they don't have to balance each other out on some sort of related scale, but my observations are limited. Because STR is available in similar proportions on gear (at better than 2:3 valuation), and in a ~2:3 ratio on materia, I don't see a reason to favor ATK at all.

However, should data prove otherwise, I'd be happy to 180, as long as it means I end up doing more damage.

The parsing has been done by others in my ls, so i don't have the numbers to present at this time.
Depending of the damage algorithm your attack may already be where it needs to be for the maximum damage from attack, and so only by raising str are you slowly raising your base damage.
Yet on ifrit and other high def mobs raising attack allows more damage to pass through.
11 was similar to this with the addition of str2/att

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Originally Posted by Akuun

I'm in agreement, but upon second read I can easily see how you took it this way.

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I didn't take it in any way, it was literally just a smartass remark. lol

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Originally Posted by Akuun

The parsing has been done by others in my ls, so i don't have the numbers to present at this time.
Depending of the damage algorithm your attack may already be where it needs to be for the maximum damage from attack, and so only by raising str are you slowly raising your base damage.
Yet on ifrit and other high def mobs raising attack allows more damage to pass through.
11 was similar to this with the addition of str2/att

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I've heard many, many people claim that there is an interdependent relationship between STR and ATK but I've seen absolutely zero evidence to corroborate the theory. My personal observations have not shown any kind of ceiling or plateau from boosting one or the other, only linear, proportional gains.

Conversely many people have tested and proved that neither STR nor ATK affect only minimum or maximum damage. Both stats affect both minimum and maximum damage. It's possible that STR opposes VIT and ATK opposes DEF, but then the targets that I've tested against have proportionately similar VIT and DEF.

Again, if someone does the parsing and math to pull out an fSTR/pDIF/etc. formula, I would definitely be interested in seeing that.

After 1.20 hits, my first priority is to figure out changes to best practices due to the massive skill overhaul. Then I'll try to do testing in a few areas where we're missing a lot of data, like level correction.

Random ?: With Our Accuracy the way it is now, why not use Iron Will IV on the legs instead of Swords Cry IV?

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Originally Posted by Silvano

Random ?: With Our Accuracy the way it is now, why not use Iron Will IV on the legs instead of Swords Cry IV?

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Valid point for 1.19, but looking at the action list for 1.20, accuracy may indeed become a factor again -- at least for one particular combo chain, the one that ends with Chaos Thrust.

I'm hoping you can double up on the chain and do the accuracy increasing combo first to negate the low accuracy of the chaos thrust combo

Interesting point from the patch notes, apparently Piety goes towards affecting Lancer attack power.

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Originally Posted by Belial

Interesting point from the patch notes, apparently Piety goes towards affecting Lancer attack power.

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I think it only affects the damage of auto-attack. Unless they plan on re-itemizing a bunch of LNC-appropriate gear I don't see how making PIE important makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Blarp

I think it only affects the damage of auto-attack. Unless they plan on re-itemizing a bunch of LNC-appropriate gear I don't see how making PIE important makes sense.

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That was my original thought too, but also from the patch notes:

Piety

Magic Evasion
Enfeebling Magic Potency
Maximum MP
Damage dealt by archer, lancer, thaumaturge, and conjurer arms

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Originally Posted by Silvano

That was my original thought too, but also from the patch notes:

Piety

Magic Evasion
Enfeebling Magic Potency
Maximum MP
Damage dealt by archer, lancer, thaumaturge, and conjurer arms

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Blarp is right, it's AA that it affects. I'm gonna blame fat fingers even though I'm not fat.

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Originally Posted by Blarp

I think it only affects the damage of auto-attack. Unless they plan on re-itemizing a bunch of LNC-appropriate gear I don't see how making PIE important makes sense.

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They actually already have something in this vein if you check out the Tortoiseshell Scale Male, it comes with +Att & + PTY. I don't think it'll make or break anything, but it may prove useful depending on how well PTY affects AA.

how I'm thinking it might work is for AA the main stat effecting it is PIE while STR also effects it but at a lower rate. For Weapon skills STR is the main stat effecting it while PIE does as well but at a lower rate.

Piety actually already affects LNC damage output at a slightly worse ratio than 1:1 to STR (PIE is worth slightly less, point-for-point). One of our guys, Ogun, did some brief testing with 25 PIE vs 25 STR for us. PIE affects both auto-attack and WS as of 1.19.

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Originally Posted by carraway

Piety actually already affects LNC damage output at a slightly worse ratio than 1:1 to STR (PIE is worth slightly less, point-for-point). One of our guys, Ogun, did some brief testing with 25 PIE vs 25 STR for us. PIE affects both auto-attack and WS as of 1.19.

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Good to know. Thanks for the testing.

Next question I have: what will be the dmg and acc of the new versions of the weaponskills, with combos and without? I wonder about the accuracy of the new Chaos Thrust chain.

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Originally Posted by carraway

Piety actually already affects LNC damage output at a slightly worse ratio than 1:1 to STR (PIE is worth slightly less, point-for-point). One of our guys, Ogun, did some brief testing with 25 PIE vs 25 STR for us. PIE affects both auto-attack and WS as of 1.19.

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Interesting, I knew that Scale Mail had some sort of purpose. Quick question, what's the best amount of points for good test results, is the 25/25 good or would you increase this for a bit more accurate results? I wanted to test VIT/STR on MRD AA once the patch goes up before pumping points anywhere, and I was just going to throw on three +7 rings, would this be sufficient as I've not done any -real- testing before apart from visual observations.

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Originally Posted by HoolieWho

Good to know. Thanks for the testing.

Next question I have: what will be the dmg and acc of the new versions of the weaponskills, with combos and without? I wonder about the accuracy of the new Chaos Thrust chain.

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I'm thinking pre buffing with the doomspike chain might help negate the - acc from the chaos thrust chain but then again that is a lot of animation lock.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

I'm thinking pre buffing with the doomspike chain might help negate the - acc from the chaos thrust chain but then again that is a lot of animation lock.

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I'm vibrating at work waiting for the day to end so I can go play around with all this shit. lol

yeah me to bro lol kids choir concert is tonight so unfortunately wont get in as much time as I want.

You guys stirred up the hornets nest on me last night :P I've worn Scale Mail for the entire 1.19, and had my LS mates wondering why they can't match my Doomspikes. Seems that the PIE I have invested into my build was their answer :P

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Originally Posted by Holy_Dragoon

You guys stirred up the hornets nest on me last night :P I've worn Scale Mail for the entire 1.19, and had my LS mates wondering why they can't match my Doomspikes. Seems that the PIE I have invested into my build was their answer :P

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May not hold true after patch today though, the patch notes list PTY & STR as damage modifiers for Auto Attack, so they may not affect WSs after this, but we'll have to wait a few hours and see, it very well could but the wording has me wondering.

Also wondering what your top Doomspike was thusfar? Unfortunately I never got a hold of Ifrit's Harpoon so my own are lackluster, but I've couple LSmates that have hit 1030 - 1090 max (this was when combined with Maim.)

he hit just over 1K without harpoon

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Originally Posted by Krausus

he hit just over 1K without harpoon

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Yea, not that it is the main factor, it is in my case as I've not bothered looking at beefing up Hart Guisarme, Canopus has slowly been rotting in my inventory since 1.18.

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Originally Posted by HoolieWho

Good to know. Thanks for the testing.

Next question I have: what will be the dmg and acc of the new versions of the weaponskills, with combos and without? I wonder about the accuracy of the new Chaos Thrust chain.

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No way of knowing without testing. Is your name a Top Chef reference?

Notes from playing LNC for a little while on the moogle fight:

- Accuracy is not an issue, even with low-accuracy weaponskills
- Maintaining Power Surge x3 is pretty important
- Positional requirements on combos are annoying as fuck during a fight like this with tons of movement by players and targets
- Damage with Blood for Blood'd Doom Spikes was around 850-1k against moogles (some moogles have much lower defense than others)
- STR+23/PIE+22 seems like a safe bet for now; I feel that by the time accuracy may or may not change, stat reallocation will have been implemented by then

My first major update will probably have to be sometime next week when I can get some LNC time on Ifrit.

as fun as the moogle fight is combos really make it frustrating lol

I'd like to ask what cross-class abilities you guys have decided to use?

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Originally Posted by Jamison

I'd like to ask what cross-class abilities you guys have decided to use?

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On LNC:

- Sentinel
- Blindside
- Cure
- Second Wind
- Bloodbath
- Raise

All I've been using as of yet

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Originally Posted by TheFatHousecat

On LNC:

- Sentinel
- Blindside
- Cure
- Second Wind
- Bloodbath
- Raise

All I've been using as of yet

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I chose exactly the same cross-class abilities.

* Quelling Strike adds 300 TP to your next non-auto-attack ability, including WSs
* Decoy is situationally useful
* Chameleon is situationally useful

I have Featherfoot on there, right next to Heavy Thrust in case I have hate.

@Carraway: I've never seen Top Chef, but someone else asked me the same question about my name.

Cure
Bloodbath
Sentinel
Rampart
Cover
Second Wind
Blindside

That's all I can remember ; ;

Question: Does cover work on Hellfire or Moogle AoE? I doubt it, since I haven't seen any rage-posts, but figured I'd ask.

Cover is gone, isn't it? Coming back with PLD job I believe.

currently using

Sentinel
Blindside
Featherfoot
Second Wind
Bloodbath
Cure
Sacred Prism
Protect
Stoneskin
Raise