Well tbh, pre level 50 caster shares int and MND at equal levels, so the difference between clerics and non clerics DPSing isnt as big as when using full MND gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rynia
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10-06-2015, 06:30 AMSapphic
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10-06-2015, 06:44 AMYhoiryo
Running EX daily on DRK, get 2 drgs in the party, ones decked out in ilvl200-190 gear, the other one is still fresh in ilvl160-170.
After the first pull I notice the dps is pitifully bad because it's taking us ages to kill monsters. We get to the first boss and I think it took us 7-10 minutes or so to kill it and I notice during the fight that the drg with the decked out gear, his tp bar isn't really budging so I call him out. After a few more pulls I call him out again and he says "I'm only doing 1 rotation, chill lol"
http://createyourownmemes.com/wp-con...e_facepalm.png
I wanted to make a comment that he'd dps the floor better at this point. -
10-06-2015, 07:04 AMReddAxelNo Swiftcast for that WHM or Provoke for that DRK? Lord help this playerQuote:
Originally Posted by Frostei
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10-06-2015, 07:15 AMAshelia_FerronI remember when you kept pestering me to get Swiftcast for my WHM lolzQuote:
Originally Posted by ReddAxel
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10-06-2015, 07:16 AMAshelia_FerronCleric Stance also provides a 10% bonus to damage spells when you are in it, so there is still a decent difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphic
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10-06-2015, 07:42 AMReddAxelIt makes life as a healer so much easier, that and its pretty much required for anything at level 50+ lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron
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10-06-2015, 08:23 AMSapphicBut below level 30, 10% of little is even less XD Just saying below 50 if someone dots without cleric it doesnt make a huge difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron
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10-06-2015, 08:28 AMFrosteiThey didn't unlock DRG despite having lancer at 56 as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by ReddAxel
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10-06-2015, 08:38 AMReddAxelOh I know, that one was obvious. Was just pointing out those missing but much needed cross skills for the other two classes they have leveled :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Frostei
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10-06-2015, 09:03 AMErim-NelhahI used to run WoD as PLD back in 2.55 a lot...my solution to this? Sword oath (ie I don't play aggro ping-pong).Quote:
Originally Posted by T2teddy
I'm just gonna say this: Friend/FC Mate or not, I wouldn't have stuck up for that tank. I might not have vote-kicked him, but I wouldn't have sided with him to vote-kick you either. I guarantee that after that performance I'd do my best to never run with him/her again, tho.Quote:
Originally Posted by zcrash970
I didn't even bother leveling mine past 50 when HW hit. Saw the new abilities "Ley Lines" and "Enochian", along with the Blizz 4 part, and said "nope". Besides which - I was having too much fun tanking. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by seekified
--Erim Nelhah -
10-06-2015, 11:30 AMReddAxelOh, yeah something I forgot to mention in my post that your post just reminded me of. Our healer said the same thing, which strikes me as odd...there's 4 fruits so, one person per fruit. its not like the fruit grew legs and walked off on its own lol. Made me do a head tilt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Selli
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10-06-2015, 01:01 PMNoxifer
The first time I ran my level 60 Ex roulette, I got Neverbleep. Since it was only my second time tanking it, and since my gear was still... well... sub-par (hadn't gotten any tank loot from the library), I decided to go a bit slower. Split the first island up into two pulls. Only... I die on the second group, because in between those two pulls the healer dropped out and I didn't even notice until I felt that lack of incoming healing O.o Didn't say anything, just dropped party. My guess was that he wasn't happy about how I pulled, but... come on >.<
Admittedly, it was during the last few days before they released Alex Normal, so more or less everyone was in a 'need. moar. tomes' mindset, but even so it was a pretty shitty thing to do :<
Also made me refuse to go into my roulettes with anything less than healer and one dps by my side for the next three or four weeks. (Well, that and one or two other hectic runs with people too impatient to even remember the meaning of the word 'polite'.)
Random responses to people:
Well... DRG has pretty high damage output, and especially during the start of a fight it can get pretty stressful if a DPS gets too many crits and/or procs ^^; If the warrior you ran into wasn't too comfortable with that job, holding aggro is probably more difficult than for someone who mains WAR.Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticNight
Unless you have a gearset saved as gladiator because it's your 'faffing about in [housing area]' gear. Or if you have two or more tanks unlocked, replace some gear and have one gearset updated -- switch to that one and just replace the weapon to change class. That last one has happened to me more often than I'd like ^^; Mostly back during the i110-130 period. It took me a while to remember that unlike the relic weapons, tomestone weapons are equippable by base classes and thus don't auto-equip the stone ^^;Quote:
Originally Posted by Averax
MP isn't really that much of an issue for a scholar, though -- which is the job with the most dots.Quote:
Originally Posted by AskaRay
If I'm not comfortable leaving the tank alone for a few GCDs, either because I'm unfamiliar with the dungeon or don't trust the tank, I'll throw out a dot here and there without cleric stance (most commonly Miasma II, since it not only hits several enemies but also doesn't require me to switch target from the tank). Sure, they're not nearly as potent as they would be with CS on, but the way I see it... even 20% of CS damage is more than 0% of CS damage ^^;
But yeah, a healer's primary task is to heal, and it's better to focus on doing only that if you're either new/inexperienced or tired. Sure, fights take a bit longer, but not nearly as long as they would if the group wipes ^_~ -
10-06-2015, 01:50 PMxXRaineXxIkr? A lot of people here are giving excuses like 'stance dance' or 'waste of mp'/'it is hard' etc. I call nonsense. I had a WHM a couple times who could Holy spam and heal during a overpull with over 7 enemies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velstriker
So okay, that WHM might be a great WHM. But even the average WHM/SCH I've seen averages 300 dps during pulls. But 0? You people do understand what ZERO means right? The best can do over 1000, the average can to 500, and what I don't even... 0?? It's like a Bard saying 'I don't use WM, cos it's hard and you have to stance dance'. No. Just no.
I don't generally point fingers at people, I normally just stay quiet and go with it. But when someone is obviously being lazy, there is no excuse for it. I don't expect the best dps from them, even 50-100dps I will be happy.
If the healer is new or something, like sometimes I see healers with sub par hp like 9000. Then I won't push them too hard.
Also, I've seen many numbers to come to this. I take numbers from every ex roulette run that I do and what I see, overall average dps throughout the entire run is around 800 for DPS. Tanks do around 400 and healers around 200. Now before you come at me with pitchforks, I don't shove these numbers at every player that I see. It's just purely for my own curiosity and so I can try do better than previous runs and learn how to improve. Like I won't complain if a dps is doing 400dps on a boss, in my head I will be, but I won't say anything. Just means I have to do my best for the rest of the group.
But it is sad and disappointing to see Healers such as WHM's just stand there doing nothing half of the time. -
10-06-2015, 02:34 PMAskaRayYET........Quote:
Originally Posted by xXRaineXx
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10-06-2015, 03:20 PMAvidriaI'd say that's a whole lot sillier than a whm who isn't dpsing. Especially since WM doesn't really require that much stance dancing (I almost always have it up and if I need to shut it off there's plenty of time for me to do it without screwing up my rotation) and people aren't at risk of outright dying if I somehow mess up my timing on turning WM on/off. That, and my primary job is dps...WM is just more of what I'm already doing anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by xXRaineXx
I've also noticed that sometimes I have to wait before/after clicking off cleric stance for it to actually shut off as well. Really irritating to try to shut it off and toss off a big heal only to have it do crap for heals because I'm apparently still in cleric stance. Always have to double check to make sure it's actually off before healing. :/ -
10-06-2015, 04:44 PMsirDarts1) Holy is just one spell. For optimal SCH DPS you need 3-4 spells + Bane.Quote:
Originally Posted by xXRaineXx
2) Holy has a stun attached, so it lowers the incoming damage making healing easier.
3) You still need to PERFECTLY know the dungeon and trust the tank to pull this off.
Mind you, I am not saying I don't DPS, as already said, I will do my absolute best to never have downtime. But for some weird reason sometimes my 5th mouse button doesn't work, and that's the button I use for Cleric Stance, I would have to restart the PC to fix this, and I often don't want to do that, so I just run without stance dancing = I only use my Damage macro on bosses and won't DPS on trash like I normally do.
But yeah, to use more than Shadow Flare + Miasma II you really have to have a good tank, a full DoT rotation requires 3 * 2.5 = 7.5 seconds to just apply the DoTs, then you have to wait for the server to register Bio before hitting Bane, so the tank is at least 8-9 seconds without healing, which requires either small pulls, or a massively overgeared tank or a perfect use of CDs by the tank. -
10-06-2015, 04:57 PMAdire
Had a level 50 WHM in Toto Rak who let me die to 3 diremites. He was standing there busy DPSing, while not even in cleric stance.
This is why I don't complain when healers don't want to dps. There seems to be a surplus of healers since 3.0 launched that prioritize dps over healing, and know how to do neither efficiently. -
10-06-2015, 06:57 PM_Pigzig
when i join group and see two bards
ill do it but i aint happy -
10-06-2015, 07:32 PMsayafrost
I bryflox HM - it wasn't that bad just the start was really bad.
I went HL roulette as WHM; I got it to 50 time ago and then never touched it anymore, but I want to learn and I got better after runs with my friends so i decided why not. We got Bry HM which i never ever healed, and I said that at the beginning - then the tank PULLS EVERYTHING... but the main problem wasn't that. At some point they stopped so I popped my divine seal and presence of mind......... and then after my first heal they decided that no they would just grab even more so they run away and me after them.... when they got the whole group... my presence of mind and divine heal were on cd and we wiped........................................ i felt so bad about that ç_ç but but I was ready I would have managed if they didn't do the false stop ç_ç - they didn't even told me they would do massive pulls ç_ç
After that I healed everything well - having prepared myself for the massive pulls. -
10-06-2015, 09:02 PMSapphicMoral of this topic is: No matter what DPS jobs you get, it can still go hella slow XDQuote:
Originally Posted by _Pigzig
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10-06-2015, 11:11 PMClaire_PendragonOdd, Ive only ever seen it hit for 2.5k to everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom
You can cast any offensive spell w/o cleric stance, not just DoTs...Quote:
Originally Posted by Soralis
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10-06-2015, 11:31 PMClaire_Pendragon
oops, didnt mean to double post
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10-06-2015, 11:44 PMBrokenFox
Garuda story mode in roulette with 3 French players ;_;
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10-06-2015, 11:47 PMFynlarPretty sure you're not thinking of the right attack. 1111-tonze Swing is the one where the ground glows purple and you have to click one of those thingies in the room to interrupt it, or else your non-tanks are probably kissing the floor, and probably your tank too unless he's got mitigations.Quote:
Odd, Ive only ever seen it hit for 2.5k to everyone.
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10-07-2015, 12:21 AMMisutoraru
3 groups in a row for Aurum Vale
1st group, the best actually
we got to 1st boss, the healer, use only medica and stick with 1 of the fruit without moving a feet
and blame the tank get out of healing range, we wipe 5 times before we vote abandon
2nd group the tank never avoid the poison water on the floor, and the healer wont start healing till HP drop below 50%
3rd i save it for the last, tank try to tank without defiance, and we OT him easily and he do not try to take back aggro, the next group of trash, he accidentally pull too many, wipe and he rage quit -
10-07-2015, 12:30 AM_slowpoke_
I had an extremely weird run in A4 today, as a WHM. We wiped twice, the first time due to DPS not taking care of their assigned dolls, the second time because both tanks died in phase 1. Everyone was eating avoidable damange the whole time, and I had primary threath from the legs, I don't even know what the tanks were doing. I don't think either of them was in their tank stance.
I got kicked after one of them complained - in extremely broken english, so I didn't even know what to answer - about heals or something. They also didn't seem to like me eating some of the orbs in P1, which I usually do because half the tanks in A4 DF can't be bothered to do that.
But yeah, apparently it's the healers' fault when no one does their job properly. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ -
10-07-2015, 02:01 AMAomine1992
So que up for sunken temple as WAR, I notice everytime I pulled, the mobs ran to the healer I was confused then I realized I had regen on like the whole dungeon.
At the end he was like just click regen dude, well I'm on PS4 so I kindly respond "please don't use regen when I pull trash ty", he replies "I think I know what I'm doing". (Clearly not) lol he was a level 60 WHM by the way lol this is something you learn as a beginner and the tank should not have to click regen unless you used it by accident not cause your lazy.
What is wrong with our community. -
10-07-2015, 02:27 AMReddAxelActually, on PS4 you don't really need to click on it with a mouse. If you press the touch pad on your controller a few times it'll cycle through sections of your HUD with a cursor. You just do that until it highlights what buffs you currently have up (regen, protect, stoneskin etc). From there you can move the cursor with the D-pad over to the buff you want gone, then just hit X and the buff will turn off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aomine1992
With that said, if he's a level 60 healer and just slapping regen on you before and between pulls it sounds like he's being really lazy. Good healers will know to put a regen up on you after you've established aggro and not right before a new set of mobs. I would've let them tank if they were giving you a hard time because they wanted to be lazy lol. -
10-07-2015, 02:33 AMAlphaFoxThat sounds like a bigger pain in the ass than anything, more so if you have to stop and do that after every pull. =/Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddAxel
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10-07-2015, 02:39 AMReddAxelOh yeah, it definitely is. I don't mind doing it now and again but if I have to do it before every pull in the dungeon I'm gonna have something to say to the healer, that or let them tank via regen if they don't listen to me or give a crap. Fortunately I haven't ran into that kind of situation just yet, that or if I have, I've established aggro quickly enough so the healer doesn't die.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaFox
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10-07-2015, 02:40 AMOdettI really don't know why people complain about this because I've never had agro issues when a healer throws a regen on me at the start of a pull, or before. Just lob/tomahawk/unmend, then Flash/Unleash. If anything, you can take it as a challenge to work on snap agro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aomine1992
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10-07-2015, 02:41 AMWhiteroomThe big one? Where he drops aggro and moves to the center of the room and you have to feed him one of the flawed adds from the tubes to stop it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon
To be clear, I am talking the 1111 tonze swing, not the 111 tonze.
To be fair, I had an AST doing this in SV normal while leveling DRK. I didn't realize he was doing it, because honestly, who does that. Then I decided to pull that one group back down the stairs through the wyvren since what I did notice is that heals weren't very good. Obv they ran off on me and it lead to a wipe. To which the healer got up in arms that I had to be better since he was using regen. Sure enough when I started paying attention, he was applying regen as the last mob in a pull would die, every pull. I had no words.Quote:
Originally Posted by Odett
A fending tank with good gear can survive it even without cooldowns. I imagine by the end of the expac, anyone will, maybe with a SS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynlar
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10-07-2015, 02:53 AMAomine1992Lol u missed the point I didn't have an issue with loosing the mobs but that healer took a hit or two because he was simply lazy and it didn't bother me until he tried to tell me how to tank...if you are not paying attention to something that should never happen the mobs are gone before your overpower/unleash/flash even goes out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Odett
I'm all about making everyone's job easier and he was making his job harder not mine lol -
10-07-2015, 06:15 AMFoxyArekuNot gonna lie, but this is the one of the biggest reasons why I can't play this game on controller.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddAxel
I can't even imagine being a blood 4 blood DPS and having to go so out of the way to click it off if a killer mechanic is coming. -
10-07-2015, 06:30 AMReddAxelI know exactly what you mean. I played NIN for my static when we needed a melee DPS for T13 pre expansion. I would only use B4B if I knew 100% that I wouldn't be getting hit by absolutely anything for 20 seconds. Sometimes I wouldn't even use it, small dps loss > death.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyAreku
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10-07-2015, 10:09 AMFallenArisen0990That's why I can only play this one PS4 and PC (PS3 is just unplayable imo). But then again, I have a weird config of Controller and Keyboard. Using both while cross armed. I use the mouse only for menus and for selectable AoE spot/LB. The controller is literally used for movement and sub menus only and the keyboard does the rest lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyAreku
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10-07-2015, 11:36 AMAskaRay
Just had a great fun run in Fractal... we were blowing through everything (people who know how to play their jobs in DF??? unbelieveable)
BUT THEN the healer DC'd, right before the second boss. It was just me (BRD), a MNK, and a WAR.
We decided "fuck it" and tried to beat it. Oneshot the poor Minotaur. Proceed to the last boss. We attempt it a couple times but each time we lose around 10-15%... so close, man...so close....
A healer did eventually join and we beat it.
Lots fun thanks guys :) -
10-07-2015, 11:51 AMWinterLuna
I was once in a Brayflox NM run and DPS was very, very slow. I can't exaggerate how slow it was. We had a monk and a machinist, but the machinist was very talkative and seemed to be doing his rotation just fine. The monk however, didn't say a word. It was only when I stopped my music and turned on the FF volume that I heard a really annoying noise, over and over and over again. Turns out the monk was spamming (and spamming only) Touch Of Death on every mob.
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10-07-2015, 10:56 PMDererk
Got Neverep as expert joined as tank got in (this is my 5 day in a row getting this.) started first pull.
Started to loss hate WHM decides to make things go faster by holying everything so much mp loss trying to get it back. Next pull same thing.
After first boss pull next set more holy. Whm asked why I didn't get under healer bubble. Was trying to stack everything because people that caster vanu vanu dose not move even for bird seed also trying to keep hate with all the holy going on. All my MP. LoL
Make it to last boss WHM complained how long it took to get there (took less than 30 min to get to last boss.). So I said use PF if baby wants their way (cause come on who complains about getting there under 30 min). Next thing I know every one jumps off the platform killing themselves. WHM says sucks for you we are a party. I die next thing in kicked.
This is why there's a shortage of tanks in the duty finder. -
10-07-2015, 11:43 PMAeraLure
The current meta as well as threads on these and other forums expect healers to dps any free moments they aren't healing. We'll actually get flak if we don't. Fractal, Neverreap and A2 especially it's Holy Town when I run them. The runs are very, very fast and tanks I run with regularly have never complained about it. Not in DF either, although I do find some groups seem to set the expectation to play speed runs that way and others it's a little more risky. If I see a tank do a big room-wide pull there I set up to spam Holy. I've never had a DF group or tank say not to do it, but I'd change it up if ever anyone said so.