Void Ark: Confirmed to be a relic from the War of Magi?

Speaking of Pandemonium, I never realized that Void Ark's architecture looks very similar to FF9's Pandemonium:
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...oniumHall1.png
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...mElevator2.png

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Originally Posted by myahele

Speaking of Pandemonium, I never realized that Void Ark's architecture looks very similar to FF9's Pandemonium[.]

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I noticed that almost right away... having explored the interior now, the color pallet is more diluted, but it does bear a strong resemblance to IX's Pandemonium, aesthetically speaking.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I could actually see Belias being a Voidsent at this point... SE was probably just being lazy when they gave Ifrit-Egi a coat of purple paint, but I'm certainly smelling something up with that now... There's nothing particularly wrong with either being Voidsent of course, it's just Voidsent have (so far) been handled in a fairly lackluster manner, IMO.

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Why not both? It stands to reason based on what we know, that with enough aether and prayer you can summon a primal version of just about anything. So let's say a culture that worshiped the voidsent Belias as a god, savior (by means of a void mage summoning it, for example), or otherwise; imagine that one day Belias is banished or sealed and they've not the means or knowledge to summon it from the void/break the seal in the event of a catastrophe.

Perhaps the summoning ritual goes terribly wrong if they did attempt it. Either way, instant primal, and lots of room to work with lore-wise. The only problem (which isn't really much a problem in this example) is the designation of Belias as an Elder Primal, which seems to imply that worship has been ongoing in some form or another for a very long time.

Isn't Elder Primal simply mean that it was summoned a very long time ago? Typically during Allagan's rule?

I take it that Belias was just a (powerful) Primal that was summoned and was defeated by Summoners at that time; hence, why the soul crystals' memories conjured up Belias-egi.

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Originally Posted by myahele

Isn't Elder Primal simply mean that it was summoned a very long time ago? Typically during Allagan's rule?

I take it that Belias was just a (powerful) Primal that was summoned and was defeated by Summoners at that time; hence, why the soul crystals' memories conjured up Belias-egi.

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You're correct about the Elder Primal designation bit. What I was getting at, was that many of the primals we have seen have been created based off of other entities or concepts. While it's in the realm of speculation at this point, it stands to reason that there could be a voidsent Belias that Belias the Elder Primal was based off of.

"Elder Primal" is simply a catch-all term for a primal that was summoned and worshiped before the 6th Astral Era (when 1.x took place). Bahamut, for instance, is an Elder Primal since he was summoned and worshiped during the 3rd Astral Era. The Warring Triad we know to be from the same time period since they were also bound by the Allagans. Odin is in a similar boat, having been a rebel fighting against the Empire, only to succumb to Zantetsuken's influence and become possessed by it.

That leaves Belias as the outlier; we don't know anything about him. Well, we can infer one thing from the fact our summoning arts are based exclusively on Allagan techniques: he was probably around during the 3rd Astral Era, and based on his Egi being a scaled-up purple Ifrit-Egi was probably aspected to fire. That's it. Anything else is speculation, and if Belias being an Elder Primal while Cuchulainn is a Voidsent in XIV isn't enough to get people off the Ivalice train, I don't know what is...

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Originally Posted by Fenral

snip~

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It's good that you're raising the significance of these names in the Ulster Cycle, but reading too far into them for the game in general is a bit problematic. Cait Sith is actually much more heavily attributed to Scottish mythology (it does appear in Welsh and Irish mythology too) - in fact referenced within series by the accent given in the compilation of FF7 etc. This may have confused you as Scathach is a Scottish woman within Irish mythology, but this isn't the case for Cait Sith (or perhaps you were confused by bean si?). Regardless, you can look at the naming conventions in general as Celtic if you must simplify them into a mythology that crosses nationalities (contrary to American perspective, Scotland and Ireland are not interchangeable, despite shared culture etc :P). You may want to expand your research in that way, rather than further relying on the Ulster Cycle. What would you do if Ceridwen appeared somewhere in there as a boss name?

In addition to Echidna from Greek, Diabolos is from Latin. Maybe we should start looking at these names for their in-franchise resonance? Cait Sith in FFXI for example, or as you say, Cu Chulainn separated almost entirely from his legend.

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Originally Posted by vientown

It's good that you're raising the significance of these names in the Ulster Cycle

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I was just pointing out the commonality of the names, and I highly doubt there's any more significance than that, since there very rarely is in Eastern RPGs. Also, the entire second paragraph was just a Gae joke.

So I didn't want to start an entirely new post about this so since this seemed the closest to relevant I thought I'd brush the dust off it instead.

I may have been mentioned before but finishing my SCH relic today I noticed when talking about the original Zodiak weapon it said it belonged to a Nymian SCH called Golbas Rombas who saved the people of Nym from the Calamity at the start of the Sixth Umbral Era.

Now this has a few interesting implications.

Firstly it meant that Nym was still a functioning state at the end of the Fifth Umbral Era suggesting that the Mhachi hadn't conquered Nym.

Secondly it means the people of Nym were saved from the disaster though what happened to them after is unclear.

I also find it interesting the name of the Zodiak relic is The Last Resort. Plus Nym was destroyed in some kind of disaster involving Aetheric Wind.

Maybe the Nymians attempted to escape the Calamity in a similar fashion to the Mhachi but rather than trying to build a vessel they tried to levitate their entire city?

Floating ruins of Nym for the 3.3 raid?

Yeah, it would make sense that Nym would try to make their Floating Island levitate even further up the atmosphere in order to escape the flood assuming the flood could reach them. As seen with the ruins, that failed

One has to wonder why a maritime nation would worry about a flood... Amdapor would drown, but Nym presumably had ships... Perhaps the floating city was meant to be the hub of a flotilla? Really hope we do get a Nym raid in 3.3, I'd love to know what happened to the rest of them... Given the Scholar quests I assume they just failed to contain the Tonberry curse though, though a Tonberry Raid would be amazing... 3.5 better explore Amdapor in West Shroud, too, there has to be a reason that structure in West Shroud is so beautifully framed by the main window in Amdapor Keep...

Wait... Was Wanderer's Palace effectively air locked, or are Tonberry able to breath underwater? Given the state of the place (and fact they seem to crawl out of the water during the King Tonberry fight), I'd assume that later... Were Mhach really that bad? Oh sure, a Tonberry curse seems down right diabolical, except it apparently saved plenty of Nymian lives... The whole Rancor thing is still a bit of a problem, but Nym still came out on top of the War of the Magi thanks to the Mhachi... They knew the flood was coming, they tried to save themselves and failed because they couldn't totally control Voidsent... Who's to say they didn't try to save Nym, and the Voidsent that powered that plan isn't the cause of the problems? Or even just Nym itself... Heck... Remember what Diabolos had in XI? Dynamis. Who's to say they didn't attempt to save Amdapor by having Diabolos whisk them away to Dreamland, where they'd be safe. Our fight with him does involve him summoning doors that allow us to hide out in the Void (or something) to avoid the dangers of the physical world...

Sure, the three were at war, but who's to say the nation which realized their war was heading towards a Calamity, didn't also turn over a new leaf at that point? Shame none of them survived... Add Cait Sith to the long list of NPCs I want to interrogate, you're up there with Midgardsormr now, puss. Given Cait Sith is a familiar in the same sense as the brooms/poroggo, I can totally see a sect of Mhachi society forsaking conflict and instead opting to merely record history...

I don't think the Mhachi tried to save either Nym or Amdipor.

The Tonberry curse had a pretty elaborate lead up with the Mhachi finding and summoning an undetectable voidsent that could deliver the curse. Then that was bound to a item and taken to an island where pretending to be natives they gave the item to a Nymian trading vessel as a gift. Then the item had to come back to Nym, find its way into the city. Only then did the curse start and it wasn't fast or rapid. The Nymians spent some time trying to cure it before shoving all the 'infected' into the Wanderer's Palace and sealing it.

Tonberries do seem to be aquatic though they thought the Flood was the other Nymians trying to drown them. This though was probably an unexpected side effect by the Mhachi rather than intentional.

As for why a Maritime nation wouldn't just use boats, the answer there could be either the nature of the flood (how quickly it happened) or the fact they simply didn't have nearly enough boats for everyone.

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Originally Posted by myahele

Speaking of Pandemonium, I never realized that Void Ark's architecture looks very similar to FF9's Pandemonium:
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...oniumHall1.png
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...mElevator2.png

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I think the original Pandemonium was a kind of palace that rose up from hell or the underworld. Given that the Void Ark is made of imprisoned voidsent. If the void fills the spot for the underworld/hell, then it could be possible that a palace in the void could be a version of Pandemonium in a similar scheme. If any expansion to the current Ark raid involved a castle rising out of or seen floating on the otherside of that rift. Then there's a good chance for a throw back to a mix of FF2 and FF9 with Silver dragon replacing Tiamat.

On a side note, I'm hearing FFIX is getting a HD port to IOS and Steam. Probably just to the cut scenes but its still food for thought. Given all the current references to FFVI we already have in FF14. Seeing some nods in future patches to IX wouldn't be a stretch. At least if enough people on both sides of the sea ask the developers anyway.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

The Tonberry curse.. snip

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But was the Floating City of Nym always floating or was that done in response to the flood? Last I understood it was for defense so it may have always been in the air making a flood kind of useless. But then the Wanderers Palace was locked away in a lake. Given the Tonberry regained their senses after we killed the Tomberry king. By extension, would that mean the Tonberry King was the void sent or manifestation of it that cursed the Nym and filled them with rancor that it fed on?

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Originally Posted by Kotemon

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On the subject of a tower/ castle; the Void Ark can be seen next to what appears to be a Tower with what appears to be a giant Statue of those male highlanders we see inside the Ark

http://i.imgur.com/oBHSuQc.jpg

This could be the next part of the raid, especially if it's some time of control tower for the Void Ark

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Originally Posted by myahele

On the subject of a tower/ castle;

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For some reason I keep associating that picture with the talk about the Anti tower that's supposed to be part of MSQ in 3.2 somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Kotemon

But was the Floating City of Nym always floating or was that done in response to the flood? Last I understood it was for defense so it may have always been in the air making a flood kind of useless. But then the Wanderers Palace was locked away in a lake. Given the Tonberry regained their senses after we killed the Tomberry king. By extension, would that mean the Tonberry King was the void sent or manifestation of it that cursed the Nym and filled them with rancor that it fed on?

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Honestly I don't know. A sightseeing log entry states that modern scholars believe the city of Nym was destroyed in some disaster involving Aetheric Wind. Wether it got the name 'the Floating City of Nym' from its current state or if that was its actual original name I don't know. Clearly the city isn't there anymore.

The SCH quests gets more into the nature of the Tonberrycurse. The Tonberry King wasn't the voidsent. None of the Tonberries were voidsent or at least not originally. Since we don't entirely know the nature of the Tonberries current form and Voidsent have been known to be able to turn people into voidsent I'm not sure on the Tonberries current definition.

The Voidsent itself you actually discover in the SCH quests. The Nymians had no idea what the source of the Tonberry curse was until the subject is revisited in the quests. They thought it was some messed up disease from the south seas. The Tonberry King I suspect was a Nymian royalty who was effected by the curse. The item holding the Voidsent was kept at the palace so it would hardly be surprising for a member of the royal family to become effected. I suspect as the leader, he was just the focal point of the rancor. Much of the source of the rancor was the sense of fear, abandonment and betrayal the Tonberries felt when the Nymians locked them away.

To clarify on Pandaemonium: the original one was from II, and yes, was the palace of Hell that the Emperor dragged with him when he returned. The one in IX, like so many elements of that game, is an homage to a previous title, in this case the aforementioned one from II; it even plays a remixed version of the BGM from II's Castle Pandaemonium.

As for Nym, the official story as far as I know is that the Mhachi sent them a trojan horse with a voidsent that started and spread the Tonberry curse. (I really need to do the SCH 50-60 line - got no excuse, I even have ACN at 60 so...) From what I understand the city itself was wiped out, like the rest of then-modern Eorzea, in the Calamity of Water the Elementals brought forth in response to the War of the Magi using so much aether (though that makes me question where the Elementals were during Allag's reign). There are Nymian ruins around, such as the Wanderer's Palace and the Floating City of Nym which are both visible in-game. That said, I will be kind of surprised and disappointed if we don't visit the Floating City during the "Shadow of Mhach" series.

If the evil sky pirate lady gets possessed by Scatach (sp?), I really hope somebody picks up that phone.

Apropos of nothing, I finally finished my Anima weapon. Strange how good help is easier to find at 4 A.M. vs. 4 P.M.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Strange how good help is easier to find at 4 A.M. vs. 4 P.M.

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Hence why I always do everything after 12AM. Anything in the afternoon and evening is terrible.

The SCH quest tells us that the Nymians never realised it was a Mhachi ruse, at least as far as the Tonberries know. The believed it was some form of magical disease from the southern Isles. They didn't put together the truth till the SCH quests. The always believed the original source of the plague was the sailors, not the stuff they brought back. This only works because the Voidsent in question is almost completely undetectable. The Nymians never knew it was there.

The main reason I brought this up again is that I discovered in finishing the SCH relic, The Last Resort, that the original Zodiak weapon belonged to a Nymian SCH called Golbas Rombas who was credited with saving the Nymian people from the 6th Umbral Calamity. Combined with the fact that the Sightseeing log at the site of the Floating City of Nym says modern scholars believed that the City was destroyed in some type of disaster involving Aetheric Wind, I speculated that Golbas Rombas might have tried saving the Nymians by literally levitating the city. After all the relic is called the Last Resort.

On the topic of the Allag and the Elementals, there is obviously several possible options for why the Allag didn't suffer the same fate. Its possible they found a way to supress or pacify the Elementals. I personally suspect, being a group that far surpassed any civilisation since in their understanding of the nature of Aether, they recognised the nature of the elementals as nature spirits and they understood the importance of Aether in the natural world to produce a healthy environment.

The other thing you have to consider is that the Allag didn't power their magics the same ways. The Allag produced magics that civilisations of the 5th astral era almost certainly didn't manage to replicate. However the Allag tended to power their magic from concentrated power sources like the Crystal Tower and Primals. The Elementals aren't concerned on morality as much as Balance and the natural order. As long as the Allag weren't screwing up nature, the Elementals were probably pretty tolerant. They also seemed to be more tolerant back then in general.

The War of the Magi introduced a form of Magic that drained Aether from the world around the caster to power his or her spells, allowing much more powerful spells than a individual could cast without the aid of a power source like the Allag used. The War, and the arms race that was born from it, resulted in an ever escalating drain on the Aether of the natural world. They were literally sucking the life out of the land. This was too much for the elementals which is why they unleashed the flood.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

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Nice discovery of the relic weapon and that theory of the floating city.