Lilies on the grave... (HW-spoiler ahead!)

Can we just.

Sacrifice our Light and bring him back?

And then, to keep drama intense and the story going, Hydaelyn says "Again? You're on your own this time, buddy."

And we go "Well we have Haurchefant alive again. Just because we have no Light, what's the worst can happen? Oh, the ASCIANS? Huh, yeah, I didn't think this through...."

No, huh? No to all of that? Bad idea? Aight.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

Why is it that the first idiot that comes to mind is his younger half brother?

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

Or Francel in a fit of desperation.

Or the Warrior of Light.

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Or... the numerous Role-Players who already created a perfect replica of Haurchy and are walking around in Ishgard. Still very salty about how SE changed the color scheme for Haubergeon armors....

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Originally Posted by Heavensword

Or... the numerous Role-Players who already created a perfect replica of Haurchy and are walking around in Ishgard. Still very salty about how SE changed the color scheme for Haubergeon armors....

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I saw one of you bastids sitting in HIS chair at Dragonhead once. I had to do a double take.

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Originally Posted by FJerome

A primal version wouldn't be the real Haurchefant anyway, though?

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Not the point. Whether he is brought back "in spirit" or "for reals", bringing someone back from the dead for drama is extremely lazy storytelling. Death of a character shouldn't be made so lightly (I'm looking at YOU, Nanamo!). I'm afraid I must quote Frozen and tell everyone to let it go.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Not the point. Whether he is brought back "in spirit" or "for reals", bringing someone back from the dead for drama is extremely lazy storytelling. Death of a character shouldn't be made so lightly (I'm looking at YOU, Nanamo!). I'm afraid I must quote Frozen and tell everyone to let it go.

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I agree to a point. A death done well in a story can be poignant.

Whether we agree (as a playerbase, not you and I) that Haurchefant SHOULD be dead or not is moot the way I see it. The fact that he grew on us so intensely and that it hurt so much to lose him SHOWS that this was a death done well. That's why I say if (IF) we got him back it would have to be through equally dramatic and plot relevant means not some aside cutscene telling us he's fine (Nanamo). This death had true emotional impact (though no plot relevant impact at least not yet).

However...

I dislike it when stories use character deaths as a shorthand for drama and I worry Heavensward is going there. War stories always have a lot of death but if people just keep dropping it becomes hard to care about anyone. Why care if they're just going to die? It's like watching a teen horror flick and everyone just becomes a number in the death count. I like the characters in this game so I hope they find ways to keep the story intense without continuing to kill people off. I'm already starting to side eye Yugiri. I want to like her but I have a creeping feeling she's next.

We really don't have a lot of interaction with Yugiri so I'm not terribly worried. Haurchefant was introduced sometime in the 2.X storyline and he had time to develop as a character where he stuck up for the Warrior of Light and had their backs through the thick and thin and even in the darkest hour. His sudden death trying to protect the WOL made the scene all the more tragic because of how well we got to know him and it made the WOL want to bring justice to Thordon and his Heavens Ward knights for killing him. That's why his death works so well and that's why I'd be livid if they brought him back in any form just to tease the heartstrings of the audience for the heck of it. His story is finished.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

That's why his death works so well and that's why I'd be livid if they brought him back in any form just to tease the heartstrings of the audience for the heck of it. His story is finished.

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When a character is this beloved both in-world and by the fandom and there's at least three different ways in canon to "bring him back wrong" (the ever-popular Primal option, Edda-brand Necromancy and whatever Amon did to resurrect Xande) it just seems weird that the game wouldn't at least deal with the fact it's an option? I don't feel his story is quite finished until they wrap up that loose end.

The resurrection attempt doesn't even need to actually happen, we can foil in time, but I would like to see it addressed.

After passing that quest, I finally feel safe enough to read and post here.

I just wanted to say I also support the idea and prefer the German version. I also envy Ayuhra in a good way for translating it better than I:

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

Well as we know when Haurchefant lays dying in the English version he says "You...you are unharmed? F-Forgive me... I could not bear the thought of...of... Oh, do not look at me so. A smile better suits a hero..."

In German it's "Odd…We’re finally so close, and yet ...I can hardly feel you… Now, don’t be sad… It doesn’t suit you…my hero…"

It gives the impression that he's been longing to be close to you but hasn't been until that moment. And that moment IS the very first time we see the Warrior of Light touching someone. Touch is usually a big no in this game due to the insane size differences between playable races.

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Could anyone post the translation of the French and Japanese versions?

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Originally Posted by Vayanne

I just wanted to say I also support the idea and prefer the German version.

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My main problem with the German version is it implies an unconsummated relationship; we spent two weeks living at Camp Dragonhead, more or less, and we've known forever that he's in love with the WoL. If your character was up for it and didn't immediately jump him in the first empty hallway what the hell were they doing with their time?!

I prefer the vagueness of the English version, which was also more neutral for people whose characters would have no romantic interest in him (bonded characters, characters who are only into women, characters who aren't into anyone, etc.)

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Originally Posted by FJerome

When a character is this beloved both in-world and by the fandom and there's at least three different ways in canon to "bring him back wrong" (the ever-popular Primal option, Edda-brand Necromancy and whatever Amon did to resurrect Xande) it just seems weird that the game wouldn't at least deal with the fact it's an option? I don't feel his story is quite finished until they wrap up that loose end.

The resurrection attempt doesn't even need to actually happen, we can foil in time, but I would like to see it addressed.

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The story probably isn't dealing with it right now because we had bigger issues to take care of, such as the Dragonsong War and the empire. I'm sure there will be a mention of mr. popular's passing in the next batches of stories, but I just don't see what purpose bringing him back will fill.

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Originally Posted by FJerome

My main problem with the German version is it implies an unconsummated relationship; we spent two weeks living at Camp Dragonhead, more or less, and we've known forever that he's in love with the WoL. If your character was up for it and didn't immediately jump him in the first empty hallway what the hell were they doing with their time?!

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For me the German version does not necessarily imply that the WoL was "up for it". My character, for example, really liked him but for various reasons poor Haurchie got friendzoned, yet the scene seemed completely natural to me.


I've just checked out the French version. I put his lines in Google translator and if you put only the first part "Tu n'as rien... Tant mieux..." it comes out as "You did nothing ... Good ..." As a healer whose biggest fear is failing to save the tank, that really stung me deeply. Just like those duty finder/dungeon finder tanks who fail to use mitigation when needed.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

I think what gets people about perma-death in Final Fantasies is that it is tragic, yes, dramatic, yes but also puzzling in worlds that have any number of ways to potentially resurrect someone (Phoenix Down being only one of them).

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This. All we need is for the game to explain why, in particular, he is unable to be brought back. It did no such thing. His death scene wasn't saddening to me, it made me angry at the writers for exploiting the death of a good, well-liked character as some sort of emotional impact and hook, but without explaining WHY he was dying when the Warrior of Light was right there (especially if they were a White Mage, or as was in my case, had a Phoenix Down in their inventory). People have tried to claim that characters aren't actually dead, just unconscious, and that spells like Raise just revive them... but the spell descriptions themselves negate that argument when they use the word 'resurrect.'

Does resurrection only work on those Adventurers who possess the echo? Is it impossible to resurrect everyone else? Just give answers and deaths like this would become actually tragic.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

You bring up this game's resurrections spells, but as far as I remember, the info box says it revives knocked out players, not dead ones.

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Incorrect. The spell says 'Resurrect.' You don't resurrect someone from unconsciousness.

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Originally Posted by FJerome

My main problem with the German version is it implies an unconsummated relationship; we spent two weeks living at Camp Dragonhead, more or less, and we've known forever that he's in love with the WoL. If your character was up for it and didn't immediately jump him in the first empty hallway what the hell were they doing with their time?!

I prefer the vagueness of the English version, which was also more neutral for people whose characters would have no romantic interest in him (bonded characters, characters who are only into women, characters who aren't into anyone, etc.)

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What I did like in the German version was they made his adoration a bit more obvious, like in Japanese but still not quite that level of "dude, I get it". He waits to see your "marvelous figure" in his doorway says his hearth always "burns for you" and that you are welcome to hold your body against his to escape the cold. It's a shame they washed most of his flirtatiousness out in English, although some of it is definitely still there if you pay attention.


That said I agree that the implication that your character never touched him before then might not work, depending on how you see your WoL.

I mean Gale...... Gale definitely jumped that man in an empty hallway at least once. So it doesn't work with him.

Oh, of course, how self-centered of me, sorry. You are right, the WoL's portrayal often differs from the way we've intended him/her to be. I wish there were more options, I am sure it could be possible to give us some leverage over our character's behaviour without actually impacting the way the story unfolds.

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Originally Posted by Vayanne

Oh, of course, how self-centered of me, sorry. You are right, the WoL's portrayal often differs from the way we've intended him/her to be. I wish there were more options, I am sure it could be possible to give us some leverage over our character's behaviour without actually impacting the way the story unfolds.

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It would be interesting to see the game have subtle branching paths. Elder Scrolls Online does this and I quite enjoy it there.

But don't apologize! I love German!Haurchefant and I'll admit that the implication that we never consummated a relationship with him adds to the tragedy of that scene. It is so sad to imagine this man finally has the person he admires most sitting so close to him but can't feel them because he's dying. FINALLY able to be touched but is too weak to enjoy it. But he still asks you to smile for him.

God dammit.

Who's slicing Thavnarian onions again?

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

Who's slicing Thavnarian onions again?

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*looks up from his Culinarian equipment*

Oh, uh, sorry. My chocobo likes it if I cook it into a stew first..

Phoenix down never says it revives the dead, only revives those who have been incapacitated. Lore in game strongly points to bringing people back to life as a true living being without things like the echo as being very difficult if not downright impossible. After all if it was that easy death would be a much more minor thing. After all you wouldn't worry about going to war much since as long as a healer survived the battle everyone would come back alive.

I wouldn't read too much into single words in skill tooltips. After all by that logic then there would have to be a lore explanation on why some skills only work on party members and their isn't.

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Originally Posted by Vayanne

After passing that quest, I finally feel safe enough to read and post here.

I just wanted to say I also support the idea and prefer the German version. I also envy Ayuhra in a good way for translating it better than I:


Could anyone post the translation of the French and Japanese versions?

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Japanese dialogue is very similar to the English version. The sequence goes likes this:

H: "You are unharmed? ... I cannot bear the thoughts of losing you."
*Haurchefant raises his hand, WoL grabs it*
H: "For a hero... a sad face is... unfitting..."
H: "Just as I expected... for you... a smile is... fantastic..."
*WoL smiles and Haurchy flat-lines*

Note: His last word, which I translated as "fantastic" is "イイ" (Ii, pronounced like the English letter "E"). This word is a general exclamation of ecstasy or excitement, kinda like "Nice!", "Oh yeah!", "Super!", "Fantastic!". It also happens to be Haurchefant's "signature" word in JP client as he practically ends every other sentence with that word. Everything about WoL is "イイ" to Haurchefant. Things that you say, do, your body mass, your accomplishments; WoL was literally a walking, talking superhero action-figure for Haurchefant. His usage of "イイ" allowed Haurchefant to be portrayed as overly enthusiastic (perhaps even a little childish) #1 fan of WoL.

The fact that he died with his favorite word as his last is supposed to serve as an extra punch to your gut that would not be as effective when translated to other languages. In a sense, even when Haurchefant is fading away, he finds a way to praise your character. Another thing to note is that "イイ" also contains some degree of sexual innuendos. Which is why there would be moments in Japanese dialogues where things gets... awkward. I mean, how would you react when Haurchefant is checking your character out, complimenting on how "イイ" his/her body mass is, then immediately followed by wanting to compare muscle sizes sometimes in the future?

I see "イイ" as "splendid" a lot. Seems to work. In English he gets the occasional "splendid" or "magnificent".

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Originally Posted by Heavensword

The fact that he died with his favorite word as his last is supposed to serve as an extra punch to your gut that would not be as effective when translated to other languages. In a sense, even when Haurchefant is fading away, he finds a way to praise your character. Another thing to note is that "イイ" also contains some degree of sexual innuendos. Which is why there would be moments in Japanese dialogues where things gets... awkward. I mean, how would you react when Haurchefant is checking your character out, complimenting on how "イイ" his/her body mass is, then immediately followed by wanting to compare muscle sizes sometimes in the future?

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You know...

It is a DAMN travesty that man never got a shirtless scene. I mean...I know how fangirl that sounds but I don't even mean it like that. He's so into your figure and muscles and strength and wanting to cavort around in a mankini with you...some of this even in the English version....

...ordering leather harnesses...asking you if he can mount you...

He has dudes doing shirtless calisthenics as a form of endurance training all over the place.

I've rarely seen a character in fiction who wanted to take his shirt off more. I guess there's the Dragonsong War story but I'm not counting that.

Stop it Ayuhra you give me all these images of what he could have done with these things :o I feel like crying and drooling at the same time at the missed chance of him being shirtless. Maybe its for the better that it never happened or I might have died from all this sexiness....:o

The easiest way (imo) for Square Enix to make a change to the memorial is by making it possible to click on it. Maybe (since I don't know how a controller works in the game) if you make a right click with your mouse you will we able to read whats written on it and otherwise if you click on it like you do with other people and objects, you would be able to interact with it . We would be able to at least use emotions.(But at the same time make it so that you cant attack it because I am sure there are people out there that would do that while someone is there..)

On a semi-related topic I came across this one Goldsmith Levequest that when I first saw it I assumed House Fortemps were just being stiff-upper-lip about it all but now having seen them react to Haurchefant's death I'd say it seems oddly out-of-character for them to act that way;

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One of the newest inductees of hospitaliers has recently experienced the first loss under her care, a frail son of the lord of House Fortemps. The first death is always the most unbearable, yet the Fortemps family allows her no rest, blaming the poor woman for their son's early ascension. She has spent recent days withdrawn in repentant prayer to the Fury, and I wish to help her through the pain by giving her a pair of earrings to soothe her soul and eventually beckon her back to the healing table.

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Not on My Table

Is it the wrong name and a typo? Is it chronologically out-of-order and did we haul Haurchefant to whatever passes for an A&E in Ishgard? Was there a fourth son and is Count Edmont just having an really bad year?

I've seen that levequest.

Lord Haurchefant is brawny (as far as I know). He's certainly not frail at all. IDK that's a weird one. There are multiple families under each House when you start including servants, knights, craftsmen etc. The phrase "THE" lord of House Fortemps makes this one confusing, though. Neither the Count nor any of his sons mention a fourth child, but maybe that's a plot point the MSQ hasn't gotten to yet who knows.

Hmmm. Maybe the youngest son is a Fourth Astral Era Allagan? I'm going to take a wild guess that they meant to say "the frail son of a House Fortemps bannerman," but it got lost in the consistency checks somewhere. These things happen.