I completely support subscription as the basisfor paying forthe game. However, I also realize that as long as an additional service is purely cosmetic, it doesn't impact thegame negatively. The premium house I am referring to offers no functionality above or beyond the regular homes. It would purely be a way of upgrading to what is effectively a detached home with a higher limit on the number of furnishings. Purely cosmetic, and totally optional, to me that is an acceptable way to generate additional revenue with very minimal impact on players ingeneral.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet
By the way, how is having a service such as I describe any different to the different tiers of subscription and the number of characters available? You are essentially saying subscriptions are bad, which I am sure isn't what you mean.
The Housing problem and my proposed solution
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08-26-2015, 10:02 AMKosmos992k
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08-26-2015, 10:37 AMZephyranthes
Honestly, the justification of SE about server limitation is just stupid.
more subscribers = more people wanting houses
more subscribers = more money
more money SHOULD equate to server upgrades
They're getting increased revenues but don't want to give it back to subscribers. Owning a house and the server load that comes with it should already be part of what you're paying to them.
If a change is needed, I'd go for limiting a single house for a single account and not on a per character basis. -
08-26-2015, 10:41 AMZephyranthesSomebody should directly reply to him in an interview to upgrade the servers and what they're doing with our money then. They're getting more subscribers and money anyway right? Why keep the quality of the server the same for 3M and 1M subscribers? In a proper business perspective, this is the logical thing to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaperking386
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08-26-2015, 11:11 AMColorfulI guess it's more about the principle of it all than anything else. If need be, they should scrap and rework the entire housing system. Why else do we pay a monthly fee? Most players expect a triple A MMO for the sub fee, and what we're currently getting with the housing system is not that. Other free MMOs do it without ever needing to see a cent from you, WoW does it with its garrison system, it's not the same system sure, but I'm going to guess that underlying structure is very similar for instanced based housing, not to mention they have seamless transitioning into your housing as opposed to FFXIV non instanced housing, that is also instanced at the same time... >_<Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k
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08-26-2015, 11:23 AMNaunetDon't try and twist my statement. >_> We have an established sub price - the $15/month for the full game. I vehemently disagree with additional monthly fees for supposedly "extra" things. All these things should be included in the actual subscription we already pay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k
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08-26-2015, 11:45 AMShirobiAgreed! Agreed! Agreed! Bolded added by me for emphasis! Its hard to believe a free MMO like Trion's Rift has better housing options than a pay to play one, but it does. EQ2, WoW, all have better options for this. I dont see, what with those games' to draw inspiration from, how SE is struggling so to create a working housing system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorful
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08-26-2015, 12:23 PMKosmos992kThey struggle because they gave in to player demands for housing ina hurry and essentially ditched whatever other housing plan they had in favor a half-assed system imposed over the top of Free Company housing. It's not a coincidence that the way that housing is done utterly ignores so many of the statements and promises made for player housing. Thats a consequence of abandoning a plan in haste and adopting a horrible compromise instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirobi
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08-26-2015, 02:32 PMSandpark
@Preypacer
No these questions are the big point. You seem to think FC housing is just for storage and playing decorate. Those things are great for FC and as long as they give others without FC a smaller scale instance of that then it is super. FC housing is proving that it is more than just an art house and storage with the upcoming airship content for FC. Those things you listed from other housing has been done in most mmos, but there hasn't been many mmos that design content out of it.
These systems would not be separate. Huge FC airships are FC only, SE is only offering airships outside to allow people who do not like big FC or can get one to still have access to some content. If you look at it solely as a housing system. Then perhaps those games you listed were more accessible. FFXIV FC housing is more than just your typical housing district with upcoming content tied to the free company housing. Every hypothetical I listed is tied to the housing system.
Has it been perfect so far? No, they had some design overlooks. But as with everything they create, it is iterative not perfect out of the gate. -
08-26-2015, 02:50 PMColorfulDoesn't make the limited supply if it has actual gameplay tied to it? There are also plenty of games that tie "housing" to gameplay aspects, WoW's garrison system ties their version of retainers to it, ArcheAge ties its gathering to it (more in depth gardening pretty much, plays a major part in AA, or at least it did when I played). A Quick google of Wildstar's housing system tells me that you can set up a mine, excavation area, etc, to further improve your ability to gather, a buff board for XP boosts and the like, etc. FFXIV's housing system wasn't perfect out of the game sure, but as of now, a long time after its initial release, it still hasn't been fixed, adding more plots isn't a fix unless you can add enough for 100% of FCs and more for future players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandpark
It isn't just housing, there are a lot of problems they've neglected for a long time and those add up and give you a worse overall experience. Didn't they say they were looking into fixing the Mudra problem? It's been almost 10 months since Ninjas were released, where's that fix? Queuing while our Chocobos are out, again, where's that fix? These are all things that weren't perfect out of the game, and still haven't been fixed. You can't keep using that excuse while these issues pile up. Fix tthe broken systems before piling up more problems into it. It's almost like an Early Access game, where they add new stuff constantly and then don't bother to fix the old stuff. -
08-26-2015, 08:32 PMSandpark
@Colorful
That content from other games came out after FFXIV's housing system. This sounds familiar, other games are taking ideas from FFXIV? I thought WoW was the game others tried to emulate.
Most of XIV's issues are currently due to servers and server tech.Queuing while your chocobo is out is not a broken feature, but they could still make it better. You may not be able to queue with chocobo out currently. But look at everything it let's you do. You don't have to log into different character to do anything in the game, you don't have to go to a room to switch classes or gear or skills, you get a roulette that keeps old content relevant.
Not saying that everything SE does is sunshine and rainbows or that SE shouldn't try and keep most content accessible to the majority. I am just saying this game's housing system as it stands is more than a house and art simulator and yes it does have some issues that need ironed out. FC company houses are guild content. And I think more games should push for more community based content instead of being solo simulators. -
08-27-2015, 02:05 AMPreypacerAt no point did I say that. I've said quite the opposite throughout my posts, giving examples from other MMOs that have done it well, as a point of comparison for how XIV has done it poorly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandpark
If you're going to respond to my posts, read them first and acknowledge what I say. Don't cherry-pick, or just put words in my mouth. It's incredibly rude, and dishonest.
Boiling it down to the absolute basics, forgetting all the benefits and such of owning one:
Other MMOs have launched housing systems where, upon release, every single character has access to at least one house, without anyone ever having to go without because "the system can't handle it". FFXIV has not even reached this point yet. So, right out of the gate, forgetting everything else, FFXIV is already way behind every other MMO that offers housing of some kind. Hell, on those terms, even FFXI's Mog House system far surpasses XIV's.
They've been done in other MMOs, and in a way that allowed all players to enjoy them, by making sure housing was available to all characters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandpark
Bringing it back to FFXIV, the benefits of housing is utterly pointless when a large number of players have no way to enjoy them because obtaining a house is out of their reach, for reasons out of their control. This has been the core point of my posts, and this thread which, for some reason, you keep completely ignoring.
XIV's current housing implementation was poorly designed and poorly implemented. This is evident in the fact that threads like this even have to be made. The adjustments being made to it are band-aids to lessen the ill-effects. They're not fixes.
Again, the housing in other MMOs does provide additional gameplay benefits beyond just the housing/storage aspects. I've already described this, and have given examples... which, again, you keep conveniently ignoring. And regardless, all of what you say about XIV's housing is irrelevant if people do not have a way to access it, which is - yet again - the main point here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandpark
You've gone full apologist. Never go full apologist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandpark
"some design overlooks"?
You have quite the knack for understatement.
Iterative? This isn't iterative. This is a fundamentally poorly designed system with band-aids being applied to it. -
08-27-2015, 04:13 AMSandparkQuote:
Originally Posted by Sandpark
Do you not even remember what you write? You said it, clear as day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Preypacer
Actually you are ignoring the core point of my post. Free Company houses are for guilds and your instanced version is for non free company members which I want as well in addition to Guild houses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Preypacer
So you have a masters in game design? It is proof of nothing except that people like and hate and post about different things on web forums.
Only relevant example I saw you list was mining areas. I guess mining is comparable on scale for building a frigging huge airship, flying off with friends to amazing destinations in the sky? The smaller scale it is, the easier to do it due to lack of risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Preypacer
One is meaty content for groups with side casual content, while the other is dress me up barbie in solitude in a house. -
08-27-2015, 04:56 AMNaunetGameplay-related elements in WS housing:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandpark
- plugs for the three gathering professions
- farm plug to plant seeds and grow plants (everyone can harvest these)
- "challenge FABkits", which are premade set-ups that you can plop down and interact with to complete various kinds of challenges
- "expedition FABkits", which are premade set-ups containing mini-instances that scale with how many people enter. These are awesome, contain cool decor and dyes as rewards, and are a good way for lowbies to farm renown (a currency you get for doing group content that lets you buy a variety of things like costumes, dyes, decor, bags, pets, flasks, and runes).
- zone-based FABkits that, in addition to being designed in the theme of the various zones, also contain portals to the appropriate zone
- different housing items grant various rested XP buffs, which is relevant in WS even at level cap, as XP turns into Elder Gems (an endgame currency) and past the EG cap, XP converts directly to gold
- buff board that lets you pick between increased rewards in questing/hunting, group PvE, or PvP content for a 24h buff
I may have forgotten something.
Basically, FFXIV's housing is not unique. FFXIV's housing is actually subpar. Horrendously subpar. -
08-27-2015, 07:43 AMPreypacerUmm... I think you're confused.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandpark
I have no idea what you're trying to prove by quoting those two bits... and I'm not sure you know, either.
Your first quote is you putting words in my mouth. That's your post.. not mine.
The second quote is me pointing out that, yes, you have been deflecting in your replies, and avoiding the main point... which I have now pointed out several times, across multiple posts, and you keep ignoring.
You're mistaking me for someone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandpark
I never specifically said they should instance the non-FC housing. That was someone else. My argument has been that they need to go back to the drawing board and re-design the system, because it's utterly inadequate as-is. I've used other MMOs that handled it well, and did it right, as examples they could and, arguably, should have drawn from when designing XIV's.
All of a sudden... out of left field...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandpark
Again, you're confusing me with someone else. I never listed mining as an example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandpark
Seriously... you need to go back and re-read this thread. You don't even know who you're responding to at this point. You're mistaking your own statements with others'.
Meantime, I think this "discussion" is over between you and I.
Good day, sir. -
08-28-2015, 09:03 AMJynx
I don't really care what their solution is but it needs to be something more fundamental than just adding more wards and a decay system, the implementation was flawed and they need to own up to it and give the players a experience worthy of a modern MMO.