Yoshi P & The Dev team, the players have spoken and you should listen!

I rather enjoyed the relic weapon quest.

In fact I'd greatly enjoy entire sets of armor being done the same way. perhaps as an alternate path for people who just aren't into grinding out raids every week.

3.0 is 2.0 reskinned?

Show me any MMO where the expansion isn't really just more of the same.

Welcome to the MMORPG space.

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Originally Posted by Miscreant

A quick Lodestone search tells me that you haven't cleared Final Coil, Bismark Ex, Ravana Ex or even Alexander Normal (let alone Savage).

It's not Yoshi-P's fault you haven't tried the challenge your self...

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I find it odd how many people who complain about the game not providing any/enough challenge, or whom complain about other people being "bad", haven't done much, if any of the very content they're complaining about themselves.

That boggles my mind.

I mean, I haven't done a lot of the stuff (still playing catch-up on a lot, having returned to the game not too long ago)... but I'm also not complaining about it lol.

So odd, though.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

I find it odd how many people who complain about the game not providing any/enough challenge, or whom complain about other people being "bad", haven't done much, if any of the very content they're complaining about themselves.

That boggles my mind.

I mean, I haven't done a lot of the stuff (still playing catch-up on a lot, having returned to the game not too long ago)... but I'm also not complaining about it lol.

So odd, though.

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I don't think anyone can complain about the game being easy, it's as hard as you make it, e.g. cleared all the content? Do it undersized...

I think when people say its too easy, they dont mean "there is no way to make it hard", they say "you can reach those goals too easily, so everyone has them done quickly. We would like to HAVE to challenge ourselves to achieve goals"

Alexander Savage does this, to an extent. I believe the main problem is, however, that failing is not something players in todays MMO crowd accept anymore. If its not bleeding-edge content, failure is not tolerated. You really dont ever FAIL a dungeon. You may need more time, you may have to replace an exceptionally bad player, but when do you actually fight through it and not make it before timeout? I know a few cases of that happened just after 2.0 release, because some of the 2.0 dungeons (the optionals) like Cutters Cry and Qarn were really hard to do at level with crap gear.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

I find it odd how many people who complain about the game not providing any/enough challenge, or whom complain about other people being "bad", haven't done much, if any of the very content they're complaining about themselves.

That boggles my mind.

I mean, I haven't done a lot of the stuff (still playing catch-up on a lot, having returned to the game not too long ago)... but I'm also not complaining about it lol.

So odd, though.

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My take on it is that they don't want the game to be more difficult for them, just for everyone else.

me thinks this guy is a preivous wow player , wow player go home!!! :P anyway i like the game as it is, and reskin no way theres tons of stuff thats new, some stuff looks the same cuz arr mob are from that part of the area , hello allagan h/e its spelled so theres gonna be some mobs that look the same jeez, but for the most part almost everything i've seen and experience is new. and honestly if youre not having fun cuz of reskins and cuz you have to actually play the game to get stuff , well sir... i suggest you go play guitar hero in auto mode , but then you'd be just listening to music ... oh w/e stop complaining its good as is it

What Yoshi P and Devs are probably thinking right now:

https://i.imgflip.com/p8426.jpg

Can we just leave this thread to rot now...we've already established the OP is an idiot, theres nothing left to be said.

I disagree. The Dev Team should continue to follow the muse that led them to create this awesome game. Listen to players, sure, but most players only know what is good for them, if even that, and have no clue as to what is best for the game as a whole.

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

1. Stop continuing to punish us for devoting time to this game and have it as a hobby. Examples, relic quests and certain gears. Letting people have the same stuff as others for half the effort isnt fair to anyone.

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The relic is grindy, but it wasn't that grindy. It's an MMO, grinds are part of the territory.

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2. 3.0 is a reskin of 2.0. ARR has been out for 2 years wich means you had 2 years to present something to the table that would make stuff interesting but we are still stuck in the DF envoirment.

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It's an expansion, not a full rebuild like 1.0 > 2.0. It should be familiar.

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3. Bigger maps and flying maps where amazing but not when the only thing we can do on big maps after quests is fate grinding hunts or gather and they are mega empty.

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What content are you hoping for?

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4. Gears with more job specific stats wouldnt be a bad idea. -10% damage taken or 10% damage dealt etc.

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I'd like to see set bonuses personally.

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5. Whats the real reason for everything beeing so easy? Who is it going to satisfy? Presenting savage isnt doing the hardcore gamers a favour its devaluing the players overall when it comes to everything else from regular mobs dungeons etc.

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The folks above me said it better than I could. The game is as hard as you make it. I like low stress, so I don't dive into the far endgame pool.

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Originally Posted by riktir

me thinks this guy is a preivous wow player , wow player go home!!!

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Pssst, a lot of us are former(like me) or current WoW players and aren't complaining. Plus his complaints apply to WoW as well. The grind for certain things in world of warcraft makes this game look positively painless. Looking for the recipe for the vial of the sands? Well! I heard you like RNG yo. So we put RNG inside RNG inside RNG so you can grind while you grind

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Originally Posted by Kikoten

What Yoshi P and Devs are probably thinking right now:

https://i.imgflip.com/p8426.jpg

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A-Freaking-Men.

You complain about things like : "The Expansion is just like 2.0"
Yoshi himself stated that "ARR" is actually the Fondation of the Game which he builds on. This means he planned it as the whole "Main" Construction and now he is going to extend it even further.

The Maps are huge mainly because in the Future he is going to add Story Related Content in them, more Features, more Trials and whatsoever.
We're just on Version 3.05 and you expect tons of Trials and Dungeons? Those next Dungeons and Hardcore Content are going to be added later.

Take into Account how much Content 2.0 Version had, the Main Story and very few Dungeons. Through Updates until 2.55 we received so many Dungeons/Trials/Features, have you forgotten that already?
This is going to happen right now in the next Months.

Duty Finder is a Problem you think? Besides Queue Times, I do not think so. Take a look at the Hunts, imagine now a Open World Dungeon where everyone camps in the Last Room waiting for the Boss to spawn, just to kill it in 5-10 Seconds.
I do know this "Open World Concept" very well and it's becoming a huge Problem when something like that is implemented. Not only are Zones much more densed by the amount of Players, nope... it will ruin the Zone completely.

In orde for open world to work they would have to make F.A.T.E.S into over world bosses that spawn every 30s with tons of mobs everywhere.

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

1. Stop continuing to punish us for devoting time to this game and have it as a hobby. Examples, relic quests and certain gears. Letting people have the same stuff as others for half the effort isnt fair to anyone.

2. 3.0 is a reskin of 2.0. ARR has been out for 2 years wich means you had 2 years to present something to the table that would make stuff interesting but we are still stuck in the DF envoirment.

3. Bigger maps and flying maps where amazing but not when the only thing we can do on big maps after quests is fate grinding hunts or gather and they are mega empty.

4. Gears with more job specific stats wouldnt be a bad idea. -10% damage taken or 10% damage dealt etc.

5. Whats the real reason for everything beeing so easy? Who is it going to satisfy? Presenting savage isnt doing the hardcore gamers a favour its devaluing the players overall when it comes to everything else from regular mobs dungeons etc.

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As before I must state again that you are in no means a mouthpeice for the playerbase. What you represent is a small minority most others are simply playing the game or have differing feedback.

To illustrate this fact I wish to list my disagreements.

1. Each piece of gear has an expiration date before it no longer becomes relevant to the current Endgame. At this point in time the items in question may as well not exist. They are glamour pieces only. Easing the content allows players to complete it and focus on the endless climb. In truth, they are not getting the 'same stuff' - they're getting a piece of expired gear with the same glamour - while you likely already have the new endgame piece and have left the Glamour item behind.

"One person's trash is another one's treasure." Do you truly feel upset that someone's rummaging through the garbage?

2. This argument is subjective. It assumes that 'more of the same' is not new content, when, factually, effort was put into the raids and dungeons we currently have. And what we currently have is more than what we had before, when you count the systems that did not exist in 2.0, such as Treasure Hunts, Hunt Marks, and Retainer Ventures. All of this content, including the newer content, got updated, along with an entirely new PvP mode and location. Even if there was consensus that new content on the same system counts as old content (which there isn't), Frontlines Seize alone disqualifies the claim that there was nothing new added in Heavensward.

Just because something new added does not interest you in particular, does not change the fact that something new was added. Narrow viewpoints make for bad arguments.

3. I invite you to actually look into the F.A.T.E. chains, the Temple Leves, and the Gatherer scripts. While not relevant to the highest echelon of endgame, investigating it does point out that these zones are being utilized.

4. This conversation has been discussed and is closed. While they'll continue to consider it, the truth of the matter is, stat bloating is ultimately ineffectual. Ultimately, no matter what you throw at the game, it will boil down to what is best in slot. Not having to argue over miscellaneous stats against an item's 'weight' actually prevents quite a bit of arguing here. I'd rather they add interesting mechanics to the fights and core classes, then stats that just confuse matters. Perhaps we can revisit this at level 100 when 'merits' become a consiteration.

5. Three words: "Ease of Entry." Making a game unnecessarily difficult pushes people away. Keeping it below the difficulty rating of *bashing my head against the keyboard* means players stay longer. True Hardcore players who desire strong challenges are a strikingly low minority. (We're looking sub 10% here.) Players new to MMOs are the ones that often wind up investing log term, so long as they're not outright dissuaded off the bat. That's why things on the leveling and low-end gear tredmill are always going to be easier than the hardcore want. This is not the game to be looking for Nintendo or Dark Souls hard. Savage is as hard as you're going to get and likely one of the only places you'll find it.

Most of these things were either a skewed, mistaken point if view, or just simply part of the backbone of the game and are not going to change.

That means, if you think you can speak for the playerbase - speak with your wallet and leave the game for greener pastures. There's bound to be a game out there that better suits your desires.

If not, then take the time to speak as an individual, and you may get respected more for it.

Hyrist: I promised myself not to reply but I explain myself a bit more.

1. Its not about beeing garbage. You can start going a path to not make gears garbage. I mentioned the relic. They took away any form of satisfaction and feeling that you acheived or earned the relic Z status etc by nerfing everything around it. Expansion or not look at the relic on FFXI it was still amazing at abyssea and that was a 99 area and you could still be there with a 75 relic and do ok etc. I'm comparing games because its the same company and you can learn of what made your flagship a good game at first. Just use some things about it that make it awesome. Players can use currency to get a weapon that has the same ilvl as the process with the relic so why take the enjoyment out of the relic? There is nothing OK with others beeing able to get the same stuff as you with putting in half the work. New gear or not.

Hyrist: Sorry had to chop it up due to 1000 letters.

Its disrespecting and pretty much teaches you like hmm get this now or wait 4 months and still get it vs someone who tries so hard to get it now. You can leave certain things alone not everyone deserves something glowy and shiny sometimes. The glowy and shiny can be a reward thing for a person who has dedicated alot of time to a company product wich is FFXIV the product of Square Enix and you should be rewarded. The mentality of everyone who pays for a subscription is entitled to everything everyone else has with less effort but at the cost of not beeing "first" promotes lazyness. There are people on my server who have kids and jobs and still found time to do the Zetas with the time sink gilsink and repetative dungeon grind that game with it. If people in thoese situations can do that there is no excuse honestly.

FYI: They feel exactly the way I did (I have 7 zetas if you must know) they just don't feel that their voice will be heard if they said something so im expressing our voice. This is just not about the zeta its about so many other things honestly its just the relic weapons is the easiest one to explain in detail imo. Find a balance. New players or not you cant just have a game strictly for casuals only when and everyone else that has an opinion about anything that they see negative becomes by defeault a player from WoW or elitist etc. I'm a FFXI gamer that came straight to this and joined in 1.0 when this game was beyond horrible. Yoshi P has done a fantastic job getting it back on its feet and as a business overall he is doing what a director should do. As a director thats trying to find balance and caring for anything else but the casuals I think that ship has sailed a long time ago.

Hyrist: Beeing the FFXI player that I have to compare games a bit not that the same content should be introduced but more rather Yoshi P and his team had 2 years to present something and this is what they came up with. Each FFXI expansion that came out had new content and with each FFXI update new stuff got introduced to mainstory. Each FFXI expansion that came out gave us something new endgame that didnt feel like a reuse or reskin of something imo. Sky, Sea, Limbus, Einjenhar, Dynamis, Salvage, Assault, Beseiged, Skirmish, Delve, KSNM BCNM etc. If SE and Yoshi P likes to recycle so much that it would make Captain Planet so proud recycle some stuff from FFXI I promise you stuff from FFXI is still considered new to all players that have no clue what FFXI is and they would enjoy it.

Hyrist: Lets say 1.0 was FFXI and the count from 2.0-2.95 was to Zilart it can be considered equal and empty in content like ARR was since they had to go back on their feet. Chains of Promathia took a while for it come out the same with Heavensward except in heavensward everything in 2.0-2.95 is usless gearwise and the only endgame stuff i have is alex and 2 ex roulette dungeons. CoP still gave you sea Limbus and new dynamis areas and you still could backtrack and content is still fun rewarding and you can enjoy gears from it. To some players here that think you should have constant new gears every 6 months or something that must be the younger generation i think? 6 months isnt enough time to enjoy your gears when you have weekly lockouts. You barely enjoy what you have before a new wave of gears come out making your current grind useless. Everyone who played FFXI know you earned your gears and levels regardless of the annoying grind fest it was. It made gears and levels rewarding.

OP is talking for me too, gotta beat thesae naysayers.

I apologize for comparing games its two different games I'm aware of this but I'm comparing content and how gameplay was rewarding I don't need new dynamis sea limbu etc I'm just saying introduce something correctly from the start. When you make stuff so easy to level aswell ofcourse people will complain what do you think? We don't need to log in to afk in foundation as it becomes the new Mor Dhona after you done your weekly stuff. FFXI if you had a static everyday you could do something new endgame. Again if you like to recycle it and eventhough I wouldn't approve of this use some FFXI content it will be a repeat for the 10% but for the new generation that everyone is talking about they would have no clue what it is. It will be something new and fresh for them something WoW never had. Simple things as adding items we need to forcepop bosses on worldmap that only you and your party can claim and get decent rewards wouldnt be a bad thing.

what are you on about?

I can't understand what you're saying with #5 at all and the rest I can only half understand what you're trying to convey.

Higashikata: I'm not sure what more there is to say honestly.

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

Hyrist: Lets say 1.0 was FFXI and the count from 2.0-2.95 was to Zilart it can be considered equal and empty in content like ARR was since they had to go back on their feet. Chains of Promathia took a while for it come out the same with Heavensward except in heavensward everything in 2.0-2.95 is usless gearwise and the only endgame stuff i have is alex and 2 ex roulette dungeons.

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Why are you still going on about a lack of endgame content when you haven't even done the endgame content from ARR or HW?