What's the point of being elite at your job?

Winning with others is more fun than losing with others. Gate Keeper Faust demands you git gud.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

Your last line is something I'd be hesitant to proclaim with confidence. It's basically a chicken/egg problem that predates this game (heck, predates gaming entirely in a vague enough sense) by quite a bit. It's a fine opinion, but I wouldn't use it as something axiomatic to form an argument out of.

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The "cause" is simple really. Player interdependence.

So long as the whole group is "punished" for the failings of a few, there will always be conflict.

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Originally Posted by Bishop81

The "cause" is simple really. Player interdependence.

So long as the whole group is "punished" for the failings of a few, there will always be conflict.

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Sure I guess?

I don't really get what point you're trying to make with that tbh.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

Sure I guess?

I don't really get what point you're trying to make with that tbh.

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To be frank, I'm not entirely sure what you meant in the last line of post #80 either.

Just saying, so long as interdependence exist, players will always have the "urge" (and justification) to butt in on other's business. And no one likes unsolicited "advice".

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Originally Posted by Bishop81

To be frank, I'm not entirely sure what you meant in the last line of post #80 either.

Just saying, so long as interdependence exist, players will always have the "urge" (and justification) to butt in on other's business. And no one likes unsolicited "advice".

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I was saying it's a bit iffy to say the elitists are the source of the problem. It's akin to saying the chicken certainly came before the egg. That's fine if that's what you think, but it's certainly not universally accepted.

It's not really "other's business" if it's group content though. You're interdependent. One person's actions have a clear and immediate effect on the people around them. Your business becomes their business once y'all share a common goal. Nobody likes "advice" in quotes (which I assume to mean condescending or rudely offered advice?), but actual advice is great. It's much easier to improve with help from more experienced people. Obviously giving that advice in a rude way is rude, but advice itself is fine. If someone gets genuinely offended by neutral advice, they're being defensive.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

I was saying it's a bit iffy to say the elitists are the source of the problem. It's akin to saying the chicken certainly came before the egg. That's fine if that's what you think, but it's certainly not universally accepted.

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Oh, it is other people's business. It's just that given the current design of the game, their business affects yours.

The vast majority of the whining and toxicity encountered in the game can be traced back to this "interdependence".

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Originally Posted by FrejyaAthenes

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Sorry had to snip coz the quote would have been huge lol. But I see what you are saying and I agree to some extent and of course we should all try to get along. There is nothing wrong with being given a token item for your trouble either. For example the Final Coil gear could be considered such a token. Before the echo and the release of HW it was a gear set you did not see that often and acted as that visual cue to others (there is also the Alexander Savage gear now). So these items you speak of do exist, so I don't see the issue there.

The token item itself is not the issue though, I think it is fine if they exist. My issue is the people who then use that as a means to belittle others or act in some way entitled and just generally have a bad attitude. When really they should get enough fulfillment from completing that content, getting the gear, and then helping their fellow players instead of just thinking about themselves and how "elite" they are. It's a poor attitude. But of course not all great players are like this, which is why there is a distinction between great players and elitist players.

Also what the OP and the elitists are failing to realize is of course the Final Coil gear (and other hardcore gear) is going to get easier to get. The game is still rather young and level caps and ilevels will continue to raise, so naturally hardcore content like Coil and Alexander will become easy enough for casuals to complete, that's unavoidable. But just as there is Alexander Savage now, there will always be hardcore content like this that will continue to be released with accompanying gear until the game finally reaches its max level/ilevel cap.

So in fact there is something for the great players and always will be, it's just that until the max level/ilevel cap is reached then casuals will eventually be able to run that content also as they naturally increase in level and stats. But when the casuals are running Alexander Savage, the great players will have moved onto the next thing and getting the next set of token loots. So being that one step ahead should always be good enough, anything else just seems selfish and poor attitude.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

As for the topic-- I always love when people pay money for a game and then treat it like it's a part time job. At work, I try to do my best because it means I get promotions, raises and a paycheck. But when playing a game (especially one I'm paying money for every month) I play it to have fun. I try to do my best because I want to see if I can top myself each time, not because I expect to be rewarded or want to lord it over everyone else. That's what a game is. And you can't measure a person's skill in damage numbers alone. I'm a MCH. My dps is naturally lower, especially when I'm supporting the team in something like A4 by throwing down an MP turret during phase 3. If you're basing everything on a parser, you're doing it wrong.

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I mean, I didn't realise that wiping repeatedly because someone idiotic random who was too lazy to read his tooltips is wiping you repeatedly was fun. Maybe we have different definitions of that word.

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Originally Posted by FeiXue

I mean, I didn't realise that wiping repeatedly because someone idiotic random who was too lazy to read his tooltips is wiping you repeatedly was fun. Maybe we have different definitions of that word.

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Nobody's forcing you to stay in the group if you don't find it fun.

lol at thinking the point of playing a game well is having others know you are good a pushing buttons and knowing mechanics...


thats more than a little sad

Lets not forget that there is a difference between players clearing an instance, and farming an instance.

I.e. there were significantly less players (pre-Heavensward) that were capable of forming a disciplined static to specifically farm T13 for gear.
According to a statistical report done by SE, something on the order of 10-20 people on a server of thousands.

These are what we would consider "elite". You don't get any more of a "special cookie" award than getting the high end gear.


Also as mentioned in many posts beforehand, teamwork is essential. No matter how "elite" players think to be.
Even stacked ilvl130 groups could wipe in Sastasha NM if the healer is out to lunch. Compound that problem to raids with a DPS check where each damage point could make the difference between winning and vote abandoning, each player is only as good as their weakest party member.