A serious discussion about abridging the story quest 1-50 (discouraging new players)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Luvbunny

FF14 is a Final Fantasy games first.

---

I have to disagree here. If it was meant to be a final fantasy game first, why even make it an mmo? The story can be told
Just fine as a single player platform. Why network it? So much time and effort for a game focused on single player content is...
Odd.

I believe this is an MMO first, or should be. The MSQ is, largely, sp content. If it was meant to be a sp game first, keep it sp.

This game offers serious competition to other mmos. Now is a prime
Time to get new mmo players. However if content remains gated behind 100+ hours of sp quests, this game will be dead to new players by the end of 3.0

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Titor

I believe this is an MMO first, or should be. The MSQ is, largely, sp content. If it was meant to be a sp game first, keep it sp.

This game offers serious competition to other mmos. Now is a prime
Time to get new mmo players. However if content remains gated behind 100+ hours of sp quests, this game will be dead to new players by the end of 3.0

---

This, like FFXI, is a main flagship title in the Final Fantasy series. The story is just as paramount as it is in the other games. Just because you can play with other people doesn't mean they care any less about the story content. They want people to enjoy the most alluring aspect of a Final Fantasy game, which is the story. This game isn't for grinders who want to just ignore the story and min/max their gear.

What they just need to do is consolidate the story quests. Get rid of the non important ones and have the 2.1-2.55 quests start at lvl 45

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eisen-Zorn

Wanting to skip through the main story just so you can get to the new jobs and content is like wanting to play FF VII, but wanting to skip to disc two because it's old and you can't be bothered.

---

No one is talking about skipping through the main story.

People, PLEASE read the OP.... :(

I agree with consolidating story, or they should have make a BETTER story structure in the first place instead of insane fetch quests. But this is one game where you should take your time, enjoy, and do it slowly. As Yoshi has stated many times, he is building this as if you are watching a TV series - 2.0 being one season. Honestly, if you are focusing on main story, it goes by rather fast, it is not that bad at all. I know this since I have to do it THREE times for my main and alts. But you know, a lot of players are impatient bunch, GIMME SOME HOTFUZZ ACTION KILL KILL KILL KILL everything!! NOW NOW NOW.

I have to say this game is not lacking story for sure. Most players go here to play Final Fantasy game and EXPECT a FF treatment on their story and CS. They are NOT looking for "western action game with barely any story and dungeon grinder". The fans all WANT and DEMAND story driven similar to how all past FF offline games works. Even FFXI gated and locked out contents behind main story - they ease up some restriction eventually - but always lock all the good stuffs behind main story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eisen-Zorn

Wanting to skip through the main story just so you can get to the new jobs and content is like wanting to play FF VII, but wanting to skip to disc two because it's old and you can't be bothered.

---

Rather its like replying to a thread with an idiotic reply because you can't be bothered to read the OP?

The MSQ needs to be more streamlined and involve MUCH less running back and forth between the same places doing filler tasks for essentially no purpose. Let's say they release another expansion pack down the line which requires having completed the MSQ of HW. This results in you having to do the entire MSQ of the base game as well as that of HW just to access level 60+ content, a new player would be two games behind and most likely in even more deserted zones than we have at this moment in time....forget about them even being able to complete the trials at level 50 unless they are powered through by a FC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Luvbunny

But this is one game where you should take your time, enjoy, and do it slowly. As Yoshi has stated many times, he is building this as if you are watching a TV series - 2.0 being one season.

---

As I said earlier, the issue is that most of the MSQ involves very little actual story but is instead a bunch of busy work that involves little to no actual plotline.

I can understand from a story perspective why SE wants us to clear the 2.55 story prior to Heavensward. However - it's ultimately going to hurt them. If you haven't noticed - there haven't been a lot of review in progress stories from critics. Many critics have flat our acknowledged that as a returning player who reviewed the game when it was first released and hit level 50 - they assumed they would be able to access the expansion zones. Should we blame them? What other MMO expansion has ever locked out players who reached the level cap? This is just going to piss off returning players and give the game less exposure from websites who can't conduct a review in progress.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

What other MMO expansion has ever locked out players who reached the level cap? This is just going to piss off returning players and give the game less exposure from websites who can't conduct a review in progress.

---

FFXI is one, and it used to be their main flagship online RPG. The first two expansion for FFXI locked out some areas from players - and Chains of Promathia main story is a nightmare to complete when it was first launched. All of our complaints about FF14 is pale in comparison when you have to deal with FFXI expansion and add ons. FF14 is a walk in the park in comparison, SE went out of their way to spoon feed you and put a comfort blanket on all of us.

FF is not your "totally mainstream Activision - EA - Bethesda" type of games. It caters to specific taste and demographic, and I am ok with that. I can understand trying to bring friends to enjoy the game though. They should treat the main mission as "a break" from the break neck pace of dungeon grinds. What they should do is, log in, complete all the duty roulette, take a break in between those doing 3-6 main missions each session. It will take awhile but its better than trying to do a marathon session of main story. Again, this game is not to be completed in 3 days...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Titor

I have to disagree here. If it was meant to be a final fantasy game first, why even make it an mmo? The story can be told
Just fine as a single player platform. Why network it? So much time and effort for a game focused on single player content is...

---

Think of it as offline RPG with some online component. Your daily duty roulette provide "matchmaking features" for your dungeons grind and activity. Your main story, quests, levequest, gathering and crafting are focused for the "antisocial" person - or player who just want to log in for 30-60 minutes, turn in their daily crafting allowance. Most of the leveling are a mix between quest + dungeons grind, you can do FATE and Levequest only if you are that antisocial. I love what they do, catering heavily to casual gamers and giving people OPTIONS - this game respect my time.

I just thing they should abolish the filler MSQ that have no real purpose at this point. There're times when you have to kill mobs or talk to NPCs for no real reason in terms of the story. The EXP is nice, but with the boost now, I don't think it's needed and it may seem overwhelming to a new player.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Luvbunny

As Yoshi has stated many times, he is building this as if you are watching a TV series - 2.0 being one season.

---

Fair enough analogy but now people have to watch all the episodes from all the seasons in one sitting and they cant skip the commercials.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miya_Carbuncle

I just thing they should abolish the filler MSQ that have no real purpose at this point. There're times when you have to kill mobs or talk to NPCs for no real reason in terms of the story. The EXP is nice, but with the boost now, I don't think it's needed and it may seem overwhelming to a new player.

---

You do realize that 3.0 main story and quests are largely the same inane fetch quest, go to point A to B, talk to npc? The grind is obnoxious obvious when all you want to do is "let me fly" and they put a big HUGE wall of main story and bazillion quests (and you gotta to attune to all the aether crap for each areas). If new players + returning players + your friends and a friend of a friend + everyone else, HATE and DESPISE 2.0-2.55 main story, just wait till they get to 3.0. Might as well quit now, you won't like it and you will absolutely hate the "gated access" to 3.0 content, even when you are in 3.0 as of now.

3.0 Areas are HUGE HUMONGOUS and just tedious to navigate, everything is so spread out, wide open. It makes 2.0-2.55 MSQ such a cakewalk in comparison.... The amount of fetch quest, talk to npc "I am so lazy, I can't do anything right, not even lift my fingers" are insane, backtracking, kill x amount of mobs.... On top of that most dungeons is "gated", its a good 50-60 hours worth of "hitting skip CS buttons" over and over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Luvbunny

You do realize that 3.0 main story and quests are largely the same inane fetch quest, go to point A to B, talk to npc? The grind is obnoxious obvious when all you want to do is "let me fly" and they put a big HUGE wall of main story and bazillion quests (and you gotta to attune to all the aether crap for each areas). If new players + returning players + your friends and a friend of a friend + everyone else, HATE and DESPISE 2.0-2.55 main story, just wait till they get to 3.0. Might as well quit now, you won't like it and you will absolutely hate the "gated access" to 3.0 content, even when you are in 3.0 as of now.

---

...I'm only suggesting it because that's old content now and seems unnecessary. Yeesh. I actually enjoy fetch quests to an extant, it's just that new players are going to want to catch up with us which is understandable. MMOs are all about being up-to-date and enjoying the latest content for most people. Not that you should rush through everything, but once again I think at least some of the MSQs should be trimmed down a bit to help. It's quite a lot of stuff to do just to start the new expansion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miya_Carbuncle

...I'm only suggesting it because that's old content now and seems unnecessary. Yeesh. I actually enjoy fetch quests to an extant, it's just that new players are going to want to catch up with us which is understandable.

---

LOL, they will never be able to catch up, 2.0 main story is huge, 3.0 MSQ is double of that. So if these players hate pressing ESC skip CS buttons, they will get double the dose and just flat out quit. There is really not much about 3.0, you have a good 4-6 hours worth of "wall of text story main mission" at least, before you can even fly, then you gotta "attune" - cough cough, go find things on huge map and do more "slave works".

Old content is not "a big waste of my time" - they did a great job keeping the old dungeons 2.0-2.55 still usable (even if you only do it once a day via Duty Finder or farming tomes). I like that they keep everything relevant and make sure that new players can enjoy 2.0 contents as well as hopefully 3.0.

Again, FF14 is first and foremost FF games - which means a good deal of 50-60 hours main story (with some online grouping required to clear dungeons) before you are set free to do things as you see fit. As much as it borrows a huge deal from WoW, Rift and Guild Wars 2, at the end of the day, it is a FF flagship, so we are stuck with having to deal to slog through "wall of text skip CS" ring a ding dong.

I know that most of the comments here wish, can we just make 2.0 story optional, and let us just go to 3.0 with talking to one npc and be done with it, and gimme me flying ability ASAP (and just talking to one NPC) - stop asking me to attune and do bazillion quests. Let us just do dungeons, trials and raid ASAP - don't force us go through the "skipping cut scene" mini games that is 120 hours long (2.0+3.0). Sadly that is not FF14, you can try Destiny, I heard that game has 10% of garbage story and purely action, ASAP nonstop.

Naturally my keyboard didn't copy the post. x___x Re-typing...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Luvbunny

LOL, they will never be able to catch up, 2.0 main story is huge, 3.0 MSQ is double of that. So if these players hate pressing ESC skip CS buttons, they will get double the dose and just flat out quit. There is really not much about 3.0, you have a good 4-6 hours worth of "wall of text story main mission" at least, before you can even fly, then you gotta "attune" - cough cough, go find things on huge map and do more "slave works". Again, FF14 is first and foremost FF games - which means a good deal of 50-60 hours main story (with some online grouping required to clear dungeons) before you are set free to do things as you see fit. As much as it borrows a huge deal from WoW, Rift and Guild Wars 2, at the end of the day, it is a FF flagship, so we are stuck with having to deal to slog through "wall of text skip CS" ring a ding dong.

---

Did you even read my post? I'm talking about the MSQs that weren't at all important to the story and were just fillers. Also I'm talking about people who do want to enjoy the cutscenes and the story, but also want to catch up with everyone else. The only reason I'm saying it should be trimmed down is because it's old content now and there's a lot to do (especially when cutscenes can be really long) before players can start HW.

This has nothing at all to do with 3.0 quests and on-wards. I don't think you understand what I'm saying at all, or the mindset of a typical MMO player. It sucks being incredibly behind and not being able to enjoy new content with everyone else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Luvbunny

You do realize that 3.0 main story and quests are largely the same inane fetch quest, go to point A to B, talk to npc? The grind is obnoxious obvious when all you want to do is "let me fly" and they put a big HUGE wall of main story and bazillion quests (and you gotta to attune to all the aether crap for each areas). If new players + returning players + your friends and a friend of a friend + everyone else, HATE and DESPISE 2.0-2.55 main story, just wait till they get to 3.0. Might as well quit now, you won't like it and you will absolutely hate the "gated access" to 3.0 content, even when you are in 3.0 as of now.

---

I could not disagree more.

The HW story is incredibly on point and there's been very little busywork involved thus far.

Yes I understand your post, and I agree that most of them do feel a bit like "filler" and padding up content. And this is the same exact identical problem with 3.0 main story (and its bazillion inane quests). So if you feel 2.0 is such a slog, you get to 3.0 thinking "horaaayyyyy - here finally" and then having to deal with the same exact thing again.. after slogging through a good 10 hours of 2.1-2.55

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Yes I understand your post, and I agree that most of them do feel a bit like "filler" and padding up content. And this is the same exact identical problem with 3.0 main story (and its bazillion inane quests). So if you feel 2.0 is such a slog, you get to 3.0 thinking "horaaayyyyy - here finally" and then having to deal with the same exact thing again.. after slogging through a good 10 hours of 2.1-2.55

---

But that's current content. You say you're understanding me but you're clearly not lol. In a MMO people typically don't want to be so far behind the rest of the crowd. Playing catch-up sucks, especially when people grow impatient about others watching cutscenes in a dungeon after a month or two.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RichardButte

I could not disagree more. The HW story is incredibly on point and there's been very little busywork involved thus far.

---

You mean the go to point A and B, go inside the mansion for one measly paragraph of text? Talk to NPC so far in the map (so you can explore) for a meager one paragraph of text? Kill X amount of mobs, go fetch my package!! Yes they "remix" a bit of the activity on some missions to give it fresh spins. But 3.0 largely is more of the same "how fast can you hit skip CS" buttons over and over. I do find the story intriguing, but for people who hate CS, they ain't gonna find anything interesting in 3.0, and end up hating it even more after the amount of filler in 2.1-2.55.

I wish they would have just created some short CS videos and placed them under Movies in the Main Menu to catch new players up to speed with the current story arc. Then give them the option of starting the story from the new expansion with the option of going back and getting the fine print details from the Main Story 2.x arcs.

The only other alternative would to be create any future story arcs that were separate from the other much like FFXI. You had the option of starting any of them and completing them at your pace with some limited gating such as level or Rank.

I'm a big story person so being made to go through the whole story to fully understand the happenings certainly makes sense, but that was 2 years of content slowly released over time with lots of silly quests. Go get this thing right there on the table and take it to another zone, then bring it back to me after you do something trivial to it. Now that you have done said trivial thing please destroy a primal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miya_Carbuncle

But that's current content. You say you're understanding me but you're clearly not lol. In a MMO people typically don't want to be so far behind the rest of the crowd. Playing catch-up sucks, especially when people grow impatient about others watching cutscenes in a dungeon after a month or two.

---

I know what you mean by catching up - maybe they should not be away so long. All these main scenario content is pitiful, they are so short when you actually here during each patch. Most patches missions total are 3-4 hours long (if you include the dungeons). But yeah, if you have been gone in since Nov 2013, suddenly you have 25 hours or more content to go through before you can even open 3.0. Not to mention they have a good amount of dungeons 2.1-2.55 to go through, enjoy the trip, learn mechanics, etc.. Every new players MUST go through at least the last 9 dungeons they introduced in patch 2.3-2.5, they need to learn mechanics.

The last thing you want to deal with is a bunch of "Abusea Babies from FFXI" who suddenly get to high levels skipping all 2.0-2.55 dungeons mechanic and have no clue on "why are we wiping over and over" again - must be cuz the tank is bad and the healer not doing their job - when it is clear as day that the DPS have no idea of what to do when it comes to mechanic (well, or you can have a tank and healer who have no idea how to deal with mechanic too :)

Think of it this way, you REALLY DO get your money's worth. Waiting one week to reach 3.0 is not a big deal, you can catch up with other jobs, crafting, side quests, get familiar with the changes, etc.... And for brand new players, they MUST go through the MSQ, not even optional, sorry - I rather not deal with freshie to 50 with instant level up buttons who have zero clue on how to play their classes. I understand the filler quests ain't teaching them how to be a good player, and mainly serve as a "break" while you wait for dungeons, and giving you something to do. There is absolutely no reason to RUSH, gimme 3.0 NOW OK NOW NOW NOW!!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Luvbunny

I know what you mean by catching up - maybe they should not be away so long. All these main scenario content is pitiful, they are so short when you actually here during each patch. Most patches missions total are 3-4 hours long (if you include the dungeons). But yeah, if you have been gone in since Nov 2013, suddenly you have 25 hours or more content to go through before you can even open 3.0.

---

I actually just recently caught up after being gone a while, but I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about brand spanking new players. Not everyone joined during vanilla and there're people who joined because of the expansion or maybe they just-so-happened to finally decide to join for their own reasons. :P

Do an abridged version, Ok. I'd be fine with shortening it, eventually. Not quite yet though. Maybe once 4.0 hits then they will need to do something because it will start to get a little ridiculous for new players. It's not so bad yet but I love that they are making people play through the main story to proceed to the next "game" I think more devs would love to be able to do that, you can have a better, more cohesive story this way.

For those complaining and saying its an MMO, well there is a second half to that acronym RPG. Its nice to see Story take main stage in a game like this. FF is known for their stories so people picking this up as a FF fan, wont be surprised but should be happy. Either way, this concern has been mentioned before and I'm sure it is duly noted.

Soon to be released in Mog Station, for $20 you can buy "Skip CS Fantasia" Phial for any of your alt character, by using this magical elixir, you now can skip all the main mission from 2.0-2.55, instantly get all the gears, 200k gils, and become level 50. Catch up with all your friends to Heavenward 3.0 without doing any work and dealing with our "dumb beyond belief" NPC who can't seem to do anything right - for a price of course. Time is money, you know, why waste 75 hours slogging through 2.0 when you can become level 50 instantly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miya_Carbuncle

I actually just recently caught up after being gone a while, but I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about brand spanking new players. Not everyone joined during vanilla and there're people who joined because of the expansion or maybe they just-so-happened to finally decide to join for their own reasons. :P

---

Yes, I understand. If I were a brand new player, I WANT to go through 2.0 because that is a great deal of XP to get me to level 50, as well as teaching me slowly how the game works and let me enjoy the game world. I am not gonna be cheated of 50 hours worth of content just because someone wants "instant level up" and skip everything. I rather FF14 be an acquired taste, and cater to specific kind of players who enjoy the FF brand and storytelling. As much as I hate these inane quests and dumb NPCs, it's the reason I am here, for JRPG version of WoW + Rift + GuildWars 2 and a heavy dose of FF fan service.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tuathaa

Fair enough analogy but now people have to watch all the episodes from all the seasons in one sitting and they cant skip the commercials.

---

I can use the analogy of Games of Thrones, which is now just wrapped season 5. Do I want a 5 minutes version of season 1-4, so that I can catch up to Season 5 NOW ASAP RIGHT THIS MINUTE OK!! Absolutely not! That would be dumb and pointless. I want a rich storytelling (and their inane filler quests). Plus there is always the skip CS button when I don't feel like I want to watch poorly written dialogue. You can't skip cs or loading scene in Destiny, the atrocities!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Think of it as offline RPG with some online component.

---

It would be nice to have an option to do a condensed story or the full story. Keep the full story there for the option for those playing it for the RPG aspects, but make it easier for those playing it for an MMO aspect.
I personally play for the MMO aspect, I care quite little about the full story, it is way too long to me, and I skipped most of the cutscenes. Nevertheless, the value of my sub vs someone who is playing just for the story is exactly the same. It would be nice to have options. You want the story? Go for it! Enjoy it! You want the RPG/Raids/PvP/Endgame? Go for it! Get there however you want (Grind, quest, whatever) and have fun.

Sorry but i dont think this is ok. Everyone has to work to get to high level content. they shouldn't be granted a quick point. They need to go through the content like everyone else, or else they get to the end of the content way before they should and have nothing to do. The higher level friends can always go play with the lower level friends in dungeons and fates.

Also, do you want to know the main reason they did this? To deter RMT from spamming the "I love you too" friend request and spamming you tells while you are in Heavenward area... For this reason alone, EVERY single new player must go through all of 2.0 main missions, no exception. 60 hours worth of content for each RMT bot that has to reach Heavenward is a lot of work. I rather not have the market board being flooded with items gathered by mining and gathering bots in HW areas...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Also, do you want to know the main reason they did this? To deter RMT from spamming the "I love you too" friend request and spamming you tells while you are in Heavenward area... For this reason alone, EVERY single new player must go through all of 2.0 main missions, no exception. 60 hours worth of content for each RMT bot that has to reach Heavenward is a lot of work. I rather not have the market board being flooded with items gathered by mining and gathering bots in HW areas...

---

Other games are able to combat RMT without locking new players behind 100+ hours of quest delivery content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Luvbunny

FFXI is one, and it used to be their main flagship online RPG. The first two expansion for FFXI locked out some areas from players - and Chains of Promathia main story is a nightmare to complete when it was first launched. All of our complaints about FF14 is pale in comparison when you have to deal with FFXI expansion and add ons. FF14 is a walk in the park in comparison, SE went out of their way to spoon feed you and put a comfort blanket on all of us.

---

You weren't locked out of starting COP if you didn't beat Zilart. Yes - you couldn't do the final Apocalypse Nigh quest if you didn't complete both Zilart and COP - but you could always start COP and jump into the promies. With Heavensward - you can't see a single new zone without having fully completed a real reborn. Big difference.

I have to say that this thread really cheers me up: I was starting to begin that only few people actually thought differently about the MSQ and how it can halt a new player's progression. Sure this doesn't affect me, as I beated the content long ago, but it does affect new players such as my sister who hoped to return to FFXIV in the expansion only to find that she had to do ALL of the old content before even entering HW (and she's level 49).

Alas, she never will.

But yes I do wish that the story would be shortened in someways: I know that the game focuses a lot on story (be careful with that though: let's not forget what 1.0 taught us) but I can't lie that I barely cared about it because it was barely about story and more about "do this and that". I didn't even see the ending of the story because my excitement died long ago but I know people do like the story and everyone is free to have their opinion.

The best idea would be to make the 2.00 story optional to follow but if that's not possible, I'd love that they'd remove the dungeon parts and similar (or make them soloable?). If it wasn't for those parts the MSQ wouldn't be such a big issue and it would just be a matter of "go here and go there", without being worried about gear. It would take a lot of time, but it wouldn't make a new player actually halt and gear up before proceeding.

I don't know how much the MSQ has changed right now because I'm not currently playing the expansion, but I'm pretty sure there are dozens of ways to improve the MSQ to new players.

I mean, I had Chrysalis as a trial once and even with people full 130 we wiped at least 5 times. I can't imagine those new players with half the gear, and half the knowledge in tactics...

2.0 Dungeons and Trials teach you so many mechanics about the game though. I'd hate to have a bunch of new players who are unfamiliar with how the game mechanic works and what you are suppose to do.... Again, as much as I want everyone and the whole village play this game, it is best when only the one who care enough about FF (and its quirkiness) stays. Otherwise you get player of the month who play for 3 weeks and decided to quit because "there are too much story to deal with". Those type of players are better off play WoW or Destiny where stories are pretty much optional (or in some case, there is not much story to begin with lol).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Luvbunny

2.0 Dungeons and Trials teach you so many mechanics about the game though. I'd hate to have a bunch of new players who are unfamiliar with how the game mechanic works and what you are suppose to do.... Again, as much as I want everyone and the whole village play this game, it is best when only the one who care enough about FF (and its quirkiness) stays. Otherwise you get player of the month who play for 3 weeks and decided to quit because "there are too much story to deal with". Those type of players are better off play WoW or Destiny where stories are pretty much optional (or in some case, there is not much story to begin with lol).

---

But they aren't fun anymore. If you started from scratch - you literally have 75+ hours of quests that you wipe the floor with (as a result of higher item levels / etc.). That's a huge hurdle to get to a challenge (that people still actually play). A lot of people can't have fun with a game unless there is a challenge.

If you start from scratch at level 1, you CANNOT wipe the floor with higher item level, level 1-50 you gotta go through massive 35 hours level grinding doing MSQ and opening up dungeons. Endgame dungeons at level 50 are optional but you definitely want to do them to be able to get lvl 120 gears which are better than the starting 115 gears in HW, plus you can upgrade to 130 which last you till lvl 55.

Dungeons that you must complete for MSQ are not something you can sneeze at, just because horay level 120 (which will take you awhile to gather gears). Some of the mechanics are still deadly if half your alliance are new (and refuse to do any research beforehand). Steps of Faith, even after the big nerf - still causing party to wipe over and over (yes, even on Japanese server...). Keeper of the Lake with a bunch of newbies, could potentially causing wipe or two, or at least 45-60 minutes long run.

Obviously if you were gone during patch 2.3, you can catch up a bit faster, since you have less to do. But please be aware, 3.0 is a massive snooze inducing fetch quests in your first 3-5 hours, no action jackson here. If you love skipping the CS, 3.0 will give you twice the amount of fingers exercise, get your "skipping CS macro button" at the ready. They designed 3.0 in the same structure as 2.0, 4 hours of "exploring" while giving you decent 115 starting gears, then mix it up with "solo instanced" missions. It will take you a good 5 hours or longer to open the first dungeons, only to realize, you need to be lvl 52 (which should be fine if you do daily roulettes + plus FATE + quests + MSQ).

Also the first few dungeons on 3.0 is not a big challenge at all, they are rather easy to do, even if you go blind without instruction (assuming you are well versed with 2.0-2.55 dungeons mechanic). It's the same trick that SE pulls with 3.0, easing players to new contents, gearing them with basic gears to be sufficient enough, peppering them with fetch quest and long CS to break the pace of "dungeon grinds". Don't expect 3.0 to be "OMFG ACTION JACKSON Shoot Everything" Challenge to the Waazo!! At least not till you hit the conclusion and do the endgame stuffs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Luvbunny

I can use the analogy of Games of Thrones, which is now just wrapped season 5. Do I want a 5 minutes version of season 1-4, so that I can catch up to Season 5 NOW ASAP RIGHT THIS MINUTE OK!! Absolutely not! That would be dumb and pointless. I want a rich storytelling (and their inane filler quests). Plus there is always the skip CS button when I don't feel like I want to watch poorly written dialogue. You can't skip cs or loading scene in Destiny, the atrocities!!

---

A more accurate analogy is FFXIV is like those Shonen Jump series like Bleach or Naruto or w/e where as in every season you'll find ludicrous amounts of episodes where as the only thing to happen is slice-of-life bullshit. I'll admit to watching Naruto, I was curious and it was popular to people. The parts with action were exciting enough and the story was stupid, but interesting. But for every couple episodes where they fought a big baddie, you had an entire episode about the main character having explosive diarrhea and the whacky hijinks that ensues. That show didn't need episodes about shitting, and this game doesn't need quests about going to the market and picking up fucking tea leaves-GOD DAMNIT TATARU, YOU LAZY MIDGET I HATE YOU.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

But they aren't fun anymore. If you started from scratch - you literally have 75+ hours of quests that you wipe the floor with (as a result of higher item levels / etc.). That's a huge hurdle to get to a challenge (that people still actually play). A lot of people can't have fun with a game unless there is a challenge.

---

MSQ 2.0-2.55 should be take a lot less to complete due to the increase in XP boost from level 1-50 (if new players are doing the MSQ, Roulette, FATEs, weekly challenge). They want everyone to get up to speed for 3.0, but other than giving everyone "instant 50 button", the game still will take a good 35-50 hours to finish for 2.0 before you can arrive in 3.0

I came back about a month before the expansion (hadn't played since 2.2) and it took me over 2 weeks to get through the extended story. And then I just had to go through 3 days of grinding to get Astrologian to 50, so now I can start the 3.0 story.

I think at the very least they should make you be able to access Ishgard as long as you own the expansion. Then at least people who started playing for one of the new jobs can pick it up at 30 and play the rest of the story as it, if they want. Then they can use the 2.1-2.55 extra story quests to help level past 50 in multiple jobs.

Thank you for posting this. Really well put.

I totally agree. I am catching up right now but I am not enjoying it in the least. I'm sure each chunk of the main story was fun when in manageable chunks over a few months with nothing else to do, but it is absolutely overwhelming and tedious all put together. It's getting harder and harder to convince myself that it's even worth it to get to the Heavensward content, and I also have friends who I don't think I will be able to convince to do all of this. It's not that I don't want to know the actual story, but each chain is hours of find kids / make tea / teleport here / talk to a goblin / wait in a DF queue for like one actual cutscene that really advances the plot.

PLEASE streamline this or make some of the questing optional for those who want to be completionist. It's just crazy and frustrating, and it makes me sad that even if I do all of this, I probably won't be able to get my friends to play Heavensward with me.