[dev1137] Caravan Security

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Originally Posted by Rokien

This is great, it will really split the towns back apart from each other. Good move SE, people will now start to be in grid, LL, and not as much in ULDAH. Hate how Uldah has become the center for everything.

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Actually, it just means you won't be able to do things with friends you meet after you join a company..

This is exactly why we should not have been restricted to a single company..

Chill out people. You can do company quests and guildleves with people from different companies, and you in fact get some undisclosed bonus for doing them with other companies. It's been said a lot of times before. Caravans being restricted will make sure that these things arent swarmed like behests used to be.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

This is exactly why we should not have been restricted to a single company..

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I agree...i think it should be like in FFXI, where you do have access to other cities content, but with some penalty...maybe less reward or a higher price...but i guess the word that is ruling the dev team right now is "Restriction". I feel like they aren't willing to really let players play however they want...its more like when taming dogs...you put collar and keep them until the dog is already conditioned to the way you want...then you can just remove the collar and pretend the dog is free to do whatever it wants because it will just keep doing stuff as it was tamed to.

I do think this restriction will, instead of splitting players into cities it will just cluster everyone even more in Ul'dah...it was a very fortunate comparing it with behest...because that is exactly what will happen...while Thanalan behests are/were (more like "were"...there's a while since i saw people actually doing behest like the old days when it was a prime content) full all others would stay there an entire day without a single sould doing them.

Or, it'll just mean everyone will join Ul'Dah's company.

The whole 'playing with friends' thing isnt that much of an issue, just join the same company? Also, I'm not expecting this to cover a lot of different content types.

You will still be able to do Content with other players of other Grand companies... Just like Darkhold and Toto-rak............. This is a good change. For the repeatable quests to be Grand company restricted will have us playing with different players each run most likely ^^ I like it!.

I really REALLY hope people join different companies and dont just flock to one. Especially since each company has different rewards that are closely tailored to certain classes.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

I agree...i think it should be like in FFXI, where you do have access to other cities content, but with some penalty...maybe less reward or a higher price...

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I have to agree with this.

I primarily spend my time in and around uldah. I love the town, and I love the thanalan badlands. but unless there is a bigger selection of gear and weaponry down the line from the immortals i have to sign up with the maelstrom. that means spending time in and around limsa, and i hate that place with the intensity of a thousand suns.

not to mention that my friends are in the same boat. well at least with being basically rail roaded into joining a particular company due to rewards. I don't particularly know how much they like/dislike the company or area's they cover.

I know this sounds really mercinary of me, but thats how it rolls in the adventure game. You go where the better rewards are for you. Ideology be damned.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

This is great, it will really split the towns back apart from each other. Good move SE, people will now start to be in grid, LL, and not as much in ULDAH. Hate how Uldah has become the center for everything.

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I totally agree, its a great step in splitting people up from the Confined Ul'dah, and I highly doubt EVERYONE is going to do Immortal Flames :p so this is a Positive in the right Direction Great move SE

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Originally Posted by Sephr

Or, it'll just mean everyone will join Ul'Dah's company.

The whole 'playing with friends' thing isnt that much of an issue, just join the same company? Also, I'm not expecting this to cover a lot of different content types.

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What about people you meet after you join a company?

What about people who adamantly believe a different company is better?

What about people who are new and get pigeon holed because everyone is telling them what company they need to join so they can play with them?

One of the best parts about FFXI was the rivalry between Countries. But it was only good because if your friend was from a different country you could still help them. More importantly you could change countries at any time. Yes there was a penalty but you had the option.

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違う都市のグランドカンパニーに入団している人とでも、グランドカンパニークエストを行うことができます。
またPT内に3都市すべてのグランドカンパニー所属メンバーがいると、いくつかのクエストでいいことがあるかもしれません。
You can still do the Grand Company quests with those from other Grand Company nations. When in party if there are members from all 3 nations (3 people from different nations) with some quests there may be good things.

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From Reinheart's translation thread. Caravans might be restricted but everything else will not be.

Also BC's in FF11 you could only do with people that were on that mission or had done that mission previously, so it wasn't all good.

Just wondering two things, hopefully a comm. rep might be able to respond.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Yep, it is possible to enter as a party. Caravan security will function the same way as Behest and allow up to four players to participate at once. Caravan security sessions will take place every 15 minutes.

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As it's said to be the "same way as Behest," it suggests that all the players wanting to participate will have to fight for a spot each cycle.

My question is, is this open world exactly like Behest where there's only four spots for whomever may click the fastest, or is it an instanced activity with a 15-minute personal timer?

Especially since -- as far as we the players know -- there's not many repeatable ways to generate seals, there will be a lot of competition for spots in this activity should it be exactly like Behest. Meaning, a pre-formed party has no guarantee of playing together.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Nope, you won’t be able to join in the operation with a member of a different Grand Company. Also, you will only be able to take part in caravan security from the aetheryte associated with your Grand Company’s city-state. For example, only members of Ul'dah's Immortal Flames can join the caravan security operation in Camp Horizon.

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Being that we're bound to a specific company and unable to participate in other city-state's events, does this mean that the obtainable rewards from each company will change?

Being that there are only two mage classes, one city-state will be left without a form of healing magic if the current form of reward is left intact.

Naturally we're not bound to a specific class/job after joining a company, but which we join will be majorly impacted by which classes can receive the rewards.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Being that we're bound to a specific company and unable to participate in other city-state's events, does this mean that the obtainable rewards from each company will change?

Being that there are only two mage classes, one city-state will be left without a form of healing magic if the current form of reward is left intact.

Naturally we're not bound to a specific class/job after joining a company, but which we join will be majorly impacted by which classes can receive the rewards.

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Dont forget that:

You can still do the Grand Company quests with those from other Grand Company nations. When in party if there are members from all 3 nations (3 people from different nations) with some quests there may be good things.

From Reinheart's translation thread.

Also even in XI, certain cities had better rewards for certain class types, even though they usually had something everyone could use.

Wow, if SE seriously made Caravan Security the same "spam claim" fest that Behest used to be... I'm just at a loss for words.

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Chocobo food will be sold by vendor NPCs in each city-state and the caravan security reception NPC. There will also be other methods to acquire this food!

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Thanks for taking the time to pop in and kick all the Culinarians in the crotch again. We appreciate it.

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Chocobo food will be sold by vendor NPCs in each city-state and the caravan security reception NPC. There will also be other methods to acquire this food!

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Originally Posted by Vesper

Thanks for taking the time to pop in and kick all the Culinarians in the crotch again. We appreciate it.

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who is to say the other methods wont be culinarian or botanist?

Good thing on not being able to join another Grand Companies thing.
I mean, i'm ready for people to leave Ul'Dah. Been my city since September 2010.
LEAVE ALREADY YOU FREAKIN' TOURISTS!

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Originally Posted by Xmbei

who is to say the other methods wont be culinarian or botanist?

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I would say Gysahl Green is more a botanist thing than a culinarian thing.

I say, turn it into a PvP event and have competing Companies harrassing each others caravans.

After all, for some, the only thing better than playing with friends is killing them.

I know and the carrot's and turnip foods for chocobo's... I don't know why it has to be a they hate culinarian's because chocobo's eat harvested vegetables, not your meat miqotikababs

From what I've seen, this looks like a glorified escort mission. I dunno, it could be fun. Just the idea of having to escort a chocobo doesn't seem all that great, in my opinion. I guess we gotta wait for the update.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

I've yet to see a game "do it right" MMO wise.

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Just something that I thought was funny. Perhaps I was wrong to assume everyone knows escort missions are doomed to fail 99% of the time in game design. Anyway if somebody knows an example of a good example in a game (it doesn't have to be an MMO) please point that out and let me know. I'd love to buy that game just to see it!

@Everyone Ragecakin' about: ONLY the caravan quest (to my knowledge) will be company limited, and I highly doubt being able to do this single quest with your friends is going to discourage them from joining their particular company. I'm personally more worried about weapon availability. I play Gladiator and Pugilist (both guilds are in Uldah) but PUG GC weapons come from Gridania while GLA's are from Uldah. You can still do ALL the rest of the game's content with your multi-company friends.

If you want to relate this to XI, relate this to the outpost missions and garrisons. As a San'd'Orian I could not do outpost missions to outposts my Bastokan friend's nation owned. Also, I couldn't do lolGarrison with him and vise versa. It's not really much different. The caravan quest is tied to one particular nation, and calls to that specific nation's army to handle it. This quest will likely be the repeatable seal quest, which makes sense why it would be company-specific.

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Originally Posted by Seif

Just something that I thought was funny. Perhaps I was wrong to assume everyone knows escort missions are doomed to fail 99% of the time in game design. Anyway if somebody knows an example of a good example in a game (it doesn't have to be an MMO) please point that out and let me know. I'd love to buy that game just to see it!

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Most of the time they do fail, mostly because the nature of combat is stationary, against a single target. While escort missions request you fight on the move against multiple targets. This concept works "okay" in FPS because the player can quickly neutralize targets quickly, not so much in an MMO lol.

A few games I have played have circumvented this problem very well though. When they place the player ON the caravan having to defend the caravan (and themselves) works very well. A lot of times they will throw in a big gun or cannon for you to play with making it that much more exciting. Being able to not worry about the "chasing after the convoy" part of it and being able to focus specifically at the threats (who are also moving at YOU, not running FROM you after a convoy) and makes it much smoother and fun.

Examples of this:
Call of Duty 4 (last mission)
Red Faction: Guerrilla (multiple instances)
Dirge of Cerberus: FFVII (somewhere in the first few hours of the game you defend a wagon from wolves with a cannon)

Due to the nature of XIV I imagine we'll see the traditional face-to-keyboard convoy missions that will be severely frustrating for all classes other than ARC and mages lol. I think of the Bombard event and how annoying that was when you were a melee class and had no one to help you lol. Especially when the enemies are ranged themselves /rage

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

i
Nope, you won’t be able to join in the operation with a member of a different Grand Company. Also, you will only be able to take part in caravan security from the aetheryte associated with your Grand Company’s city-state. For example, only members of Ul'dah's Immortal Flames can join the caravan security operation in Camp Horizon.

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On my server that translates into, only people in Ul'dah will be doing these.

this is just 1 diaster after another, "luck" spam join, not only do you have to spam it you have to hope your 3 other friends also spam it otherwise you have to split, then restricting who you can plwy with and what rewards you can get, people will just got for the better, or if im a mage and i think grid would benefit me but my brother is a tank and uldah benefits him then we are forced not to play together.

Bad move Se, thats put a big CON on caravan security for me.

im not to bothered about it in this case, but in future, if they keep deciding to use this approach, then its gunna just make things worse.

Meh, really not looking forward to this any more. 4 man limit = bad. Restricted to the company you join = bad. Going to suck telling my friend they're SoL because of the limit or because we're from different companies.

Maybe we have to successfully complete a Chocobo Caravan Quest in order to be able to get a Company Choco.

Where do you think they gonna get the chocos from?

Sorry if I was unclear about the "function the same way as Behest" part, but yes, it is like the current Behest system where whoever speaks with the NPC first will be able to take part in the security. There won't be multiple caravans, just like there is only one Behest, but with a 15 minute wait until the next one, it won't be long before you have another chance.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Sorry if I was unclear about the "function the same way as Behest" part, but yes, it is like the current Behest system where whoever speaks with the NPC first will be able to take part in the security. There won't be multiple caravans, just like there is only one Behest, but with a 15 minute wait until the next one, it won't be long before you have another chance.

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ಠ_ರೃ

I am not impressed. Not until we have an Ishgard Grand Company and associated quests.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Sorry if I was unclear about the "function the same way as Behest" part, but yes, it is like the current Behest system where whoever speaks with the NPC first will be able to take part in the security. There won't be multiple caravans, just like there is only one Behest, but with a 15 minute wait until the next one, it won't be long before you have another chance.

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This is the only repeatable I see so far that gives company seals. I sure hope there are other methods for obtaining them....

Also, with the distance of client to server, caravans will become a Japanese event. With behest it's the same thing, they see the behest NPC 2-3 seconds before NA do and get first dibs. This is a problem.

That is rather disappointing. =( Probably won't be able to do the escorts with my friend then if we don't both "win the pop" on the NPC.

Is there a timer on when you can do it again like Behest, too? Or can you spam them?

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

This is the only repeatable I see so far that gives company seals. I sure hope there are other methods for obtaining them....

Also, with the distance of client to server, caravans will become a Japanese event. With behest it's the same thing, they see the behest NPC 2-3 seconds before NA do and get first dibs. This is a problem.

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I think Yoship said there will be supply replenishment quests.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Sorry if I was unclear about the "function the same way as Behest" part, but yes, it is like the current Behest system where whoever speaks with the NPC first will be able to take part in the security. There won't be multiple caravans, just like there is only one Behest, but with a 15 minute wait until the next one, it won't be long before you have another chance.

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Man, this is going to be a spam fest to gain access to the NPC like the old style behests. Things like this should have multiple instances running. It's just offputting if you wait for one only for it to fill up 3 seconds after the NPC spawns. Either that or have a queue system so people can go do whatever and be teleported there when it's their turn.

I'm kind of hoping these will have the same one hour lockout current behests have, so that one small group can't monopolize the event.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Sorry if I was unclear about the "function the same way as Behest" part, but yes, it is like the current Behest system where whoever speaks with the NPC first will be able to take part in the security. There won't be multiple caravans, just like there is only one Behest, but with a 15 minute wait until the next one, it won't be long before you have another chance.

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It's better that way too! :D

erm.....sorry the caravan escort is a company quest....well it issues seals as a reward and the npc's in the companies ramble on about caravans somewhere.

so how is it that no one seems to have though....."oh hang on, might be that we get the quest from our company, the tell us to meet the escort at a location and escort it from there"? if your in a party when you gain the quest those party members can then assist.

speculation is as pointless as discussing the removal of anima.

Well, ****
Considering we can only do caravan escorts in the city state we join, I REALLY hope that people spread from Uldah, and I hope that the escort takes about 10-12 minutes, so that theres no way the people who just did it can run back in time unless they tele to the camp.

Why would they make initiating Caravan Security just like initiating old style Behest when they changed initiating old style Behest because it was shown to cause problems?

How does making it 15 minutes each Caravan Security run change the fact that one person could "claim" the NPC twice while the second person could get left out twice?

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

This is the only repeatable I see so far that gives company seals. I sure hope there are other methods for obtaining them....

Also, with the distance of client to server, caravans will become a Japanese event. With behest it's the same thing, they see the behest NPC 2-3 seconds before NA do and get first dibs. This is a problem.

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only if you play during JP prime time..... anyone playing in NA will not have much of an issue unless you are playing at ungodly hours and happen to be on a heavy JP server.. in which case it is still every 15 minutes so you can just wait until the next one starts. I am thinking they probably take at 10-15 minutes anyway. Just wait at the npc, those who are currently on the quest won't get back to the NPC before you.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

I'm kind of hoping these will have the same one hour lockout current behests have, so that one small group can't monopolize the event.

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They start every 15 minutes. A 30 minutes lockout is good enough.