The final part of ARR story doesn't make enough sense.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

Ohh huh I needs to check that out then as my jobs cause I went to places in ul'dah but not there

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Personal favorites: WVR, GSM, and MRD. Important NPCs also have some good dialog (however, as far as I can tell none of the Job trainers have new dialog. Disappointing :( )

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Personal favorites: WVR, GSM, and MRD. Important NPCs also have some good dialog (however, as far as I can tell none of the Job trainers have new dialog. Disappointing :( )

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I wouldn't have expected the Drg teacher too since he's in Ishgaurd just like us. I expect him to be complacently shocked to find that his adopted son is still alive. There was no need to change his dialog after the steps of faith because we see what looks like a dragoon. We didn't bother mentioning it because even though the PC is the Current Azure Dragoon (Assuming they have completed it) there are still normal dragoons besides us. And Drake Armor isn't Azure Dragoon exclusive per-say as a mark of an elite among elite. Since there can only be 1 at a time I'd say any others that wear the drake armor are just potential candidates to be the next one The Eye Chooses.

So only we the player at the screen saw that it was the supposedly dead rouge dragoon from the quest line. not like he jumped down and said "What's up Rival, how've you been?" he just kinda watched us kill Vashir and talked to him self before jumping off to Althik knows where.

Are people really still saying they are too OP to get capture. Never mind that fighting back just increases your guilt. When...ever have you fell a primal by yourself? Show me when you did that? When did you take down the Allagan Empire? When did you go into the void and fight and return all by yourself? When have you braved dungeons all alone? Seriously, where is this delusion coming from? Do people just ignore the fact that they have party members or what? Sure, NPCs hold you in high regard, but they also acknowledge that you haven't done it alone.

So what makes anyone think they are solo an entire army of brass blades? I'd love to see someone solo an army of lvl50 mobs. Go do it. Show me so this ridiculousness can make sense.

No one says that. People like you just saying this, to give you a point. No one who argues about the critical points of the story ever said, that we should or could fight all Brass Blades.

It's getting annoying, that this, beside the assumption, that we got no weapon and are totally helpless even as classes who don't really use weapons outside of gameplay, is the only point people got, because it is none.

In gameplay I solo army of Level 50 mobs all the time, but as said, that's not the point. No one wants that, it would be totally dumb, if we would go on a rampage in Uldah. Even a bit more than being forced to do absolutely nothing and just running away like a super-guilty criminal...

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Originally Posted by Dererk

ok this person has lost all talking privileges its getting very weird don't go brining that real world stuff in here man.

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I did not. Others did. I just answered to that. Still: you ignoring facts. That's why it's pointless to discuss with you, since you avoid any possible discussion this way.

You do realise that Yda did bring up the fact about pummeling the brass blades and Papalymo did point out that it wouldn't be such a great idea to fight them much less all of them given the entire situation of it right?

It's a fact, that "we" = the scions, are killing a lot of Brass Blades and Crystal Braves, no? Instead of running away together - or fighting the real guilty guy, not his poor minions.

People always say: But if we fight, it proves our guilt. You know, the Scions DO fight and there is no real difference between them doing this or us as part of the Scions.

If a group which is called "terrorists"/"imperial spies"/"regicides" is killing some policemen, reasons aside, so one of them can escape, would you think this guy running away is less guilty than the others?

As said: The plot holes are not that big. The story could be exactly the same. But while they are not big, they still are... odd. And that's sad.

I'm starting to see that you have no idea of the concept of Sacrifice for the greater good. They chose to fight due to the fact that they knew they had to keep the guards at bay so you could run to clear your names. Lolorito, the brass blades, and the Crystals Braves were ready to lynch mob you to burn you and everyone at the stake.

You were weaponless and defenseless due to your visit with the Sultana and even then when Thancred and Y'shtola were about to stay Minfillia ran off while you stayed behind like you wanted to fight. When Minfillia went to go back you argued with her about it and with the dialogue the way it was atleast in english you wanted to stay but you knew you couldn't because of the burden you have as BEING the Warrior of Light.

I have a question how many fantasy books do you read? (and this isn't a provoking question it's serious) Because in damn near a lot of the ones I have read there is always someone or a group of people who will sacrifice everything to keep the hero from being harmed. Weither it's keeping them from being killed by taking the blow for them or by staying behind for capture so the one who is innocent can escape.

There is also the fact that while yes you are escaping without fighting (unarmed, going to stick with decidedly and obviously unarmed) the leader of the people after you just brutally outmatched /Raubahn/ while he was fully armed and in full rage-mode.. twice, it was time to leave until you can regroup and hunt down the people framing you on your own terms..

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

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We did solo all the primals (except maybe Leviathan? and Bahumut) ourselves. But, killing one big enemy is a lot different then fighting thousands of little ones especially when all those little one are people and we don't have the convenience of someone to heal us when we get a knife in the gut.

And I could solo an army of lvl50 mobs just give me holy and i'll be good to go ;).

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Originally Posted by Aryalandi

There is also the fact that while yes you are escaping without fighting (unarmed, going to stick with decidedly and obviously unarmed) the leader of the people after you just brutally outmatched /Raubahn/ while he was fully armed and in full rage-mode.. twice, it was time to leave until you can regroup and hunt down the people framing you on your own terms..

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Well Raubahn being in rage-mode probably wasn't helping him all that much. Ilberd defeated him with skill not just strength. It's not that we couldn't defeat Ilberd it's that we weren't in a situation where we could even try. There were guards everywhere on our heels and we didn't have our weapons. You might have been on the cut scene as a MNK (for example) but I was on SCH and without my book I am defenseless.

Not to mention Minfilia was in the room. She's non-combative and our boss. If not for our own sake for her we needed to get out of there. Mind you she kinda wasted all that by running back but what can we do. If your boss says "Get the Seven Hells outta here! We need you alive not dead/captured!" Then you go.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

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I have a question how many fantasy books do you read? (and this isn't a provoking question it's serious) Because in damn near a lot of the ones I have read there is always someone or a group of people who will sacrifice everything to keep the hero from being harmed. Weither it's keeping them from being killed by taking the blow for them or by staying behind for capture so the one who is innocent can escape.

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Just read what you are answering to, instead of totally ignoring it and writing the same thing again and again and again. Your post got nothing to do with mine.

@ Question
I read thousands of tales, not only fantasy, but sages, legends and fables of all nations and cultures. Different stories got different demands. There is no need for political schemes inside a fable, but if you implement one, it should make sense. And it's really not good idea to tell people, they should accept something, because it's a cliche. Cliches are nothing you want in a deep, non-humoristic story.

Anyway, the point is not that this all happened. The point is not, that we have to flee. The point is not, that the Scions had to sacrifice themselves, that the Sultana died, that Raubahn was defeated by Ultberd or that the other Leaders did nothing about it, not even trying to restore peace with a few words, only running away, putting the fate of Uldah and the Alliance mainly into the hands of the regicides.

The point is, how this all happened. It felt forced and exactly that is the point.

To tell that the story writers just means, that he/she may think about it. Maybe there is even already a plan, which explains it, maybe not. Maybe there is one, but it simply was not clear enough. Critic helps to make things better. People would not write here, if they wouldn't want to help. They would write in another MMO or Games forum, how "shitty the story is" and that "no one should play this", if they hate the story, FF, Square or whatever.

Nobody demands, that they should change it, no one has the right to do this, it's their story, even if we are the customers and people who pay for it. But when someone tells me, as an author, that he thinks something inside my story does not make sense, I'm really, really glad about it. Because this way I can think about it and improve my story (writing).

I had some situations in my life, where others got critic about their work and I got none. I was not glad about it, because I knew, that what I did was for sure not perfect. Critic from outside helps to improve, because it comes from a different perspective. Threads like this should exactly do this, delivering a different perspective.

the fact that it doesn't go the way you way makes it more realistic... shit don't always play out the way you want it to.

So we all agree that there was nothing we could do but flee then? To recap, Out Numbered, hostile territory on enemy's home turf, political reasons stopping Kan-E and the Admiral from helping, and the Scions ultimately sacrificed them selves for the good of the realm. Trust me, no one is more unhappy about Minfilia telling us to go on with out her or ticked about Lolorito winning than me, but it happened.

All we can do is bide our time in Ishguard and wait for our chance to take down Lolorito and avenge Nanamo and the Scions. Cue the start of my 3.0 RP.

I just make sure to shoot Lorolito's ugly statue in Vesper Bay with my magitek armour whenever I can now. ;)

We also have to keep in mind that Kan E and Merlwyb were surrounded. Even if they attacked they only had a few body guards with them.

They were given a clear choice to leave, or be arrested as well

Eh I honestly doubt that the monetarist would have the balls to arrest two nations leaders. That would have definitely started ul'dah down the path of a war on three fronts and I'm not even including the garleans. However, we can't be entirely sure and this is all my opinion.

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Originally Posted by lilirulu

We did solo all the primals (except maybe Leviathan? and Bahumut) ourselves.

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We don't, not even Ifrit, even though we get captured without anyone else, there's an NPC nearby who leads out out of the area you're in. He tells you to go get help and then come back to defeat Ifrit.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

We don't, not even Ifrit, even though we get captured without anyone else, there's an NPC nearby who leads out out of the area you're in. He tells you to go get help and then come back to defeat Ifrit.

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I believe merely for gameplay purposes. Story-wise, we do face each primal, solo.

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Originally Posted by Mimiru_S

I believe merely for gameplay purposes. Story-wise, we do face each primal, solo.

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Of course, "solo" in this context means "relying very heavily on the Crystals of Light and/or Hydaelyn."

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Of course, "solo" in this context means "relying very heavily on the Crystals of Light and/or Hydaelyn."

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As in physically, just you vs the primal.

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Originally Posted by Mimiru_S

As in physically, just you vs the primal.

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Yeah, but it was with Hydaelyn's help, which we aren't going to get while facing the Braves and Blades. So saying, as some are, "Hey, we fought the primals solo!" doesn't mean much. The bulk of our power at the time was coming from the Crystals.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Yeah, but it was with Hydaelyn's help, which we aren't going to get while facing the Braves and Blades. So saying, as some are, "Hey, we fought the primals solo!" doesn't mean much. The bulk of our power at the time was coming from the Crystals.

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Lol, if I recall correctly, when we fought Ifrit we only had one of the crystals. So other than the Echo, maybe we didn't rely as much on Hydaelyn, as you believe.

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Originally Posted by Mimiru_S

Lol, if I recall correctly, when we fought Ifrit we only had one of the crystals. So other than the Echo, maybe we didn't rely as much on Hydaelyn, as you believe.

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At the risk of turning it into a story versus gameplay conversation, though, at the time he was summoned with less crystals than he would later be, and we ourselves weren't at the height our powers would eventually reach. :p

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Originally Posted by Mimiru_S

I believe merely for gameplay purposes. Story-wise, we do face each primal, solo.

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I disagree. Story-wise we are always told to gather adventurers or get help. If it would be for Gameplay purposes only, why should the npcs mention it? Why would they show other Party-Members in Cutscenes in Dungeons and Raids? We really aren´t that strong. Story-wise I would consider the GC-Leaders, the Scions like Thancred, Papalymo, Y´shtola and Yda, the Ascians and the Garlean Generals stronger than us. Don´t think, we would stand a chance in a one on one. Even against the Garlearean Generals it was a 8 on 1 in most cases. We defeated Ultima and Lahabrea only with massive help from Hydaelyn.

Even in the instanced Fights in some Story or Class-Quests we wouldn´t accomplish much, if we wouldn´t have help from various NPCs.

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Originally Posted by Aylon

I disagree. Story-wise we are always told to gather adventurers or get help. If it would be for Gameplay purposes only, why should the npcs mention it? Why would they show other Party-Members in Cutscenes in Dungeons and Raids? We really aren´t that strong. Story-wise I would consider the GC-Leaders, the Scions like Thancred, Papalymo, Y´shtola and Yda, the Ascians and the Garlean Generals stronger than us. Don´t think, we would stand a chance in a one on one. Even against the Garlearean Generals it was a 8 on 1 in most cases. We defeated Ultima and Lahabrea only with massive help from Hydaelyn.

Even in the instanced Fights in some Story or Class-Quests we wouldn´t accomplish much, if we wouldn´t have help from various NPCs.

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Lets just agree to disagree, shall we?

As said: I don't see anyone who really wants to slaughter the poor Brass Blades, many of them for sure even don't know what is happening and just thrown into this treachery. And also no one says: omg, I'm the WoL, I could pwn this city! Totally!

It's simply about the... try to stop this coup. Remember FF9, when the group tries to save the city and fought against Beatrix. Hell, she owned the group at the end of the fight and when Ilberd is indeed some "hardcore" agent of someone, prepared for all this, so he may have some tricks ready to beat us - perfectly fine. No one says and wants, that we simply stomp the bad guys. But just running away like a coward, abandoning the Sultana, Raubahn, the Scions and all the people of Uldah... I mean, we are no princess (or prince). We ARE somehow the first and last line of defense against the worst evil. It just feels wrong to turn around and run without a real reason, even IF a fight may cause some political mishaps. But we are no politicians. I think the way most people play their character would mean anyway, that they would not even give it a first thought. - And a coup, especially one bloody like that, means anyway, that diplomacy is dead.

It feels forced, because the reason we flee is... odd. The WoL is exactly the one, who does not flee. S/he is the one, who stays. Even if she dies. To save others. That was the main story of our characters.Story-wise I always see the elite guardians of city getting simply slashed by normal attacks. I don't think that they sent some mere recruits to the most horrible places, just to die there.

But it's always tricky, especially in a FF game. Even the single player games of FF always had such moments - for the sake of the story.

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Originally Posted by Pterois

the fact that it doesn't go the way you way makes it more realistic... shit don't always play out the way you want it to.

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The opposite is the problem. Things go exactly like they want it. We are robbed of the control over our character and a forced to behave like they want. And exactly THIS is not realistic. It would be, if they really mind control us, something like that may be possible in the reality of FF. But that we just totally act out of character is unrealistic. That's the problem.

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Originally Posted by myahele

We also have to keep in mind that Kan E and Merlwyb were surrounded. Even if they attacked they only had a few body guards with them.

They were given a clear choice to leave, or be arrested as well

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Are you kidding me? You want arrest the leaders of Limsi and Gridania? If someone would really not want to do this, it is the putschists. They would have a civil war which, in addition, is pushed by two armies. They would be dead or had to flee before they even had the opportunity to call in allies like the empire. And it would be even worse, if they kill them. It would be like... the republicans killing Obama, Putin and Xi Jiping to take over the USA. But again: no one said, that the leaders should start a slaughter. But maybe avoid it. They have lost the Uldahn leaders of the alliance. Because Raubahn and the Sultana were their allies. Lolo? Not really. And they could have saved Raubahn at least. But yes, this one is tricky. What I miss most there is some more reactions after this. A political earthquake just hit Uldah and the alliance with it. And there is not much of a reaction. Would be fine to more...

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Of course, "solo" in this context means "relying very heavily on the Crystals of Light and/or Hydaelyn."

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This merely means, that he just can't turn us, like the others. He's still a giant beast with immense powers. Of couse - and I say it again and again - no one wants to slaughter Uldah or the Brass, that was never the point.

Ill post a very constructive post from another thread :

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Originally Posted by Cilia

1. My character could have taken on the Brass Blades that arrested me!
-Maybe, but it wouldn't have helped prove your innocence. You'd simply be leaving more corpses in your wake, and giving the Monetarists more reason to apprehend you was the last thing you needed. Their numbers were too great to take them all on anyway; the entire city's law enforcement was out for you, not just the four Brass Blades that came in with Teledji. And, again, that's assuming you would be holding yourself together well enough to actually do anything, much less fight.
b]2. I still had my weapon, or wouldn't have given it up![/b]
-From the moment you trigger "The Parting Glass" until you've disembarked at Black Brush Station, you're unarmed. I didn't consider the lack of a weapon all that jarring; no matter how benevolent, would you allow a highly dangerous and armed individual to privately speak with a head of state? That's like sending a French general to go meet with the President alone while the former is toting an M-16, or something to that effect. That wouldn't happen in a hundred years.

3. There weren't enough Brass Blades or Crystal Braves to stop me!
-The entire city's law enforcement was out to get you. The entire city. While yes, we've downed an upwards of seven primals at this point and countless other foes besides, that doesn't make you an invincible combatant. Not by a long shot. With a city full of both Brass Blades and Crystal Braves out for you, their sheer numbers would be enough to bring you down. They wouldn't need to ring an alarm bell because the standing forces of both armies in Ul'dah had been told to hunt us down if we escaped. And, again, you were unarmed during the escape. Where's the plot hole?

4. I wouldn't have fallen for such a cheap trick!
-Well... neither would I. I wouldn't have even taken that vial in the first place; what use do I have for it? I could make one of my own in-game with a little mudstone. I could leave it with Momodi and pick it up later, since she's the one who sent me on that errand. I could leave it with Severian and have him analyze the residue inside. I connected the dots fast enough in reality to tell Nanamo her wine was poisoned. There are any number of things I could have done - from fighting a dozen Primals to wasting time shooting hoops in the Gold Saucer - but from the storyline's perspective our PC was rushed and didn't think it was important, so we took the vial with us. End. Of. Story.

5. I could have stayed for a trial and proved my innocence!
-Ah, no. With Nanamo dead and Raubahn imprisoned (under lawful charges of murder, however sympathetic he might have been), the law can now be bought and sold in Ul'dah. The only people that could testify to your innocence (Laurentius and Ilberd) are known traitors as well, and it's highly unlikely you'd get honest testimony out of them. Assuming there's a jury the Monetarists / Lolorito could probably bribe enough of them to get an outcome favorable to them. They also probably have the judges / magistrates / whatever in their pocket. So good luck with that one.

Honestly, the only bit of writing I have a problem with is where Laurentius insists you take the vial. I immediately get suspicious when people insist I do things. Aside from that though I didn't feel like any of the writing was particularly flawed, and instead of being outraged at how my PC was made... you know... Hyuran (or Roegadyn, or Lalafellian, or Miqo'te, or Elezen) came out feeling more like this in the end.

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Plus ill also add some of my opinions:

Both Kan E and Merlwyb just escape and do nothing!

They both were on a diplomatic visit on a foreign soil. If something as big as a regicide happens, their security forces have the duty of get them out of danger ASAP since the place it has become a dangerous one. Plus if they tried to step in they will be intruding on another city state internal affairs and that could lead to a very serious diplomatic conflict, even war.

Their responsabilities are with their people first, then with the rest, no matter their personal feelings.

My character is a super sayan 4, power level wise, cant be beaten by mere soldiers!

Yes and no. It is true that the Wol is VERY powerful, but not as powerful to face so many soldiers alone. Plus people will tend to not believe what you have to say if you kill half of the city army trying to escape even if you succeed.

Despite that he/she is amongst the strongest eorzeans alive

One thing to remember, even if the Scions, The WoL, ALL THREE GC Leaders, and every one else in the room called BS and rushed Lolorito and Teledji, we were still waaaay out numbered. And it only takes ONE lucky shot with an arrow to take any of us out. And they had a lot of arrows.

Take Thancred as an example. It only took one arrow in his knee to render all of his years of combat training and Rouge expertise completely meaningless.

Now imagine if that had hit him in the spine, then some one got a shot off in Y'shtola's chest. Now we don't have a cave in. Back up to Yda and Papalymo, Arrows are faster than spells and you may dodge a few arrows but you will never dodge ALL of a few dozen arrows.

I'm sorry but the one doing the most arguing and saying we're wrong about logical conclusions taken about certain aspects of the storyline will not even acknowledge any or all logic behind any action that our character did or did not take within the plot. They are wanting every tiny detail explained which is completely and totally unneeded for this type of story telling. They're saying it was too forced then fine they can have that opinion. But I'll now be putting then on my ignore list until they can actually come up with a valid plot hole in which can't be explained by logic, which is what a plot hole is.


You know my only thought now is was the poisoned wine meant for us as well they made too much of a show of the hand maiden walking away with the wine bottle that makes me want to think our glass had the poisoned wine in it as well.

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Originally Posted by Mimiru_S

I believe merely for gameplay purposes. Story-wise, we do face each primal, solo.

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They usually mention that you should get (before), and sometimes mention that you had (after), a band of adventurers with you.

I believe even sometimes said in the course of the story dialogue that you should get the adventurers who helped you before.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

One thing to remember, even if the Scions, The WoL, ALL THREE GC Leaders, and every one else in the room called BS and rushed Lolorito and Teledji, we were still waaaay out numbered. And it only takes ONE lucky shot with an arrow to take any of us out. And they had a lot of arrows.

Take Thancred as an example. It only took one arrow in his knee to render all of his years of combat training and Rouge expertise completely meaningless.

Now imagine if that had hit him in the spine, then some one got a shot off in Y'shtola's chest. Now we don't have a cave in. Back up to Yda and Papalymo, Arrows are faster than spells and you may dodge a few arrows but you will never dodge ALL of a few dozen arrows.

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This one shot arrow made no sense, because in this case Thancred wouldn't even have been able to meet us anyway. It's one of those typical "cutscene" cliches. You can't just mess around with the power and tell people, that this makes sense. Either you got people with "superpowers" in comparison to reality - or not. If you switch it off and on - what indeed happens all the time in many stories and still it does not make any sense - it's simply enforced. There are even tropes about this and they don't say: Wow, look at these typical cliches, they are awesome!

And you (and I don't mean you alone) don't have to get defensive again. I know, for you all is perfect, so you ignore the points again, make up own points again no one is talking about, just to falsify them and so on. Such "discussions" I know of kindergarten. Impossible to take them serious. Okay? So don't waste your time. You like it. I know this and accept it. For YOU everything is fine. So just ignore this thread. Okay?

And we were not outnumbered. Not in the slightest. They were. And before people start again with a whole army waiting outside:
WE HAD A ****** DISCUSSION OUTSIDE! For minutes! NO ONE came. There was no one waiting outside. And we SAW this. And even after this, TWO scions "kicked the asses" of at least 1-2 dozen guys. The cutscenes even show this. No. At start, THEY were outnumbered. by far. So you can't bring this point. It does not exist at all.

But again:
You like it. I know this and accept it. For YOU everything is fine. So just ignore this thread. Okay?

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

They usually mention that you should get (before), and sometimes mention that you had (after), a band of adventurers with you.

I believe even sometimes said in the course of the story dialogue that you should get the adventurers who helped you before.

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Yes, they do. But it's for gameplay's sake. Storywise it would often enough not make sense and if you look at the cutscenes you are in most of them the only one there.

The thing is anyway, that the WoL should really not be able to defeat armies. But some people just bring this up, so they can ignore the original critic. This "but there is an army right on the other side of the door" is their main argument, even though it makes no sense. A look at the cutscenes alone is proving this.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

I'm sorry but the one doing the most arguing and saying we're wrong about logical conclusions taken about certain aspects of the storyline will not even acknowledge any or all logic behind any action that our character did or did not take within the plot. They are wanting every tiny detail explained which is completely and totally unneeded for this type of story telling. They're saying it was too forced then fine they can have that opinion. But I'll now be putting then on my ignore list until they can actually come up with a valid plot hole in which can't be explained by logic, which is what a plot hole is.


You know my only thought now is was the poisoned wine meant for us as well they made too much of a show of the hand maiden walking away with the wine bottle that makes me want to think our glass had the poisoned wine in it as well.

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Please, don't act like a kid here. What you do is a trick I know of children, who just blame the others to do, what they do. I don't even know what people like you are doing in this thread. You really are only here to say, that it is dumb and everyone discussing here about odd points is dumb, too. Why? If everything is fine for you, why even write here? Why read this thread? It would be one thing if you would try to explain these points. But that's not the case. People who "argue" here against the OP are just ignoring them and throw other stuff at it, to "win". This is no PvP here. You can't win anything here. You don't get marks or items or anything.

Its starting to get sad now lol I think pretty much half here says the story and reasons we ran wer fine others want to lock up all the writers in a remote place and threaten to kill them if they don't re write it while they sit quietly and suck their thumb and when they are at last done the people will still throw a hissy fit saying no no no no you can't do that.

why we ran chance of doing anything but will result in a civil war in Ul Dah leaving Eorzea weakened.

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Originally Posted by RobinRethiel

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Robin, I'm only going to respond to you one more time as you're beginning to bore me by willingly ignoring any thing but the fact that we can prove why we couldn't stay and fight.

You mentioned something being wrong with my assessment on archers, so I'll go ahead and enlighten every one to the fact that I am an Archer IRL and have been for almost 10 years.

Now it only takes one shot to kill some one if well aimed, in humans it is The Neck (A hard to hit sweet spot and near instant death), The Chest (Takes about 10-15s to die) The Spleen and Liver (Not instantly fatal but will kill via blood loss in an around one Hour) and the Arm pit and Groin (Both of which are difficult and circumstantial "Lucky Shots" that will cause fatal blood loss in about 5-10 minutes).

So then there are plenty of ways to disable and or maim with arrows like when they shot Tancred's knee. One archer wouldn't be able to kill us all but we saw at least 4 aiming for Thancred and any medieval style standing army will have a Dedicated Archer regiment. (The God's Quiver in Gridania being a specialized Archer Corp.) So they had enough archers to do the job. Even if they had one archer per scion they could have taken us down easily. It's the 12th Century equivalent of bringing a knife (or sword in this case) to a gun fight. And even if the PC was a Bard or Archer, that's 1 vs an Army. Still not good odds since they would have been surrounded and over run by ground troops while targeting other archers.

Most of our problems with your posts have been your unwillingness to acknowledge any flaw in your arguments and your unnecessary inclusion of real world politics and propaganda (Which is what I had a personal problem with since I'm from the USA my self and what you were saying about us is as far from the truth as mole men in antarctica) so if you're willing to be civil and adult like we'll happily acknowledge you again. But until then this will be even my last acknowledgement to any of your posts.

I'm sorry, but that's how it is. Good day and Good Luck.

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Originally Posted by Dererk

why we ran chance of doing anything but will result in a civil war in Ul'dah leaving Eorzea weakened.

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I've been holding off on saying this but Gridania & Limsa Lominsa vs Ul'dah is not a Civil war. All three are different Nations. After all the Autumn War in the 6th Astral Era was Ishgaurd, Gridania, Ul'dah, and Limsa Lominsa vs Alamhigo. That was the origin of "The Grand Company Alliance" that still exists and upon Ishguard's rejoining will once more be complete.

The Syndicate & Brass Blades vs The Immortal Flames and A People's Militia would be a Civil War. Remember that each city state is it's own Nation and a Civil war is a war within a single nation's people (See French Revolution and American Civil War for Examples)

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

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Details aside, the point is that such a conflict would basically scream to the Garleans "HEY LOOK WE'RE INFIGHTING COME TAKE OVER." Especially with a new emperor, that is an extremely dangerous prospect.

However, your information on archery was quite enlightening. Thanks for the read. (However, by "Growing" did you mean groin?)

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Originally Posted by gamesmart

However, your information on archery was quite enlightening. Thanks for the read. (However, by "Growing" did you mean groin?)

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Yes, and thank you for catching that spell error, I'll edit that real quick. The Spell check knew I spelled it right, it just didn't know I used the wrong word. lol

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

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Very awesome read. Makes me wish my cousin would have taken me hunting cause he would always use a bow. It was very informative and I enjoyed it. Any way very good read.

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Originally Posted by gamesmart

Details aside, the point is that such a conflict would basically scream to the Garleans "HEY LOOK WE'RE INFIGHTING COME TAKE OVER." Especially with a new emperor, that is an extremely dangerous prospect.

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Yeah, and where have we seen this before? *cough* Ala Mhigo *cough cough* The more I think of it, the more I'm certain the Syndicate's rebellion is actually part of a Garlean plot to 'divide and conquer' Eorzea - they know Gridania is too insular to destabilize and Limsa Lominsa being a Thalassocracy simply could weigh anchor and evacuate to calmer waters. But Ul'dah was the most obvious choice to destabilize politically - it's the centre of Eorzean trade as well as having the most weak government, a figurehead monarchy with power vested in a rich plutocracy was never going to last.

And like what happened in Ala Mhigo with the purge of the Fists of Rhalgr (Ala Mhigo's most powerful military force) and the overthrow of the 'King of Ruin' Theoduric after a brief civil war, assassinating the benign yet heir-less and powerless Sultana, framing 'Eorzea's Champion' the Warrior of Light and the Scions of the Seventh Dawn for the crime, and then watching the plutocratic Syndicate tear itself apart through infighting as each member draws a line in the sand and unleashes their private armies against each other - soon the beleaguered Ul'dahn citizens would be begging for the Empire to move in and restore order - befret of the Scions and the Warrior of Light, they would obviously feel that Imperial domination is preferable to complete anarchy.

As Kan-E-Senna said in the original ending scene following Operation Archon, (paraphrased) "If one nation falls, so shall we all." Ul'dah's fall would quickly result in the rest of Eorzea being brought to heel under the Garlean jackboot. It's so obvious as to be pretty much shouted in big flashing letters. :p

I really hope I'm proven wrong though. :)

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

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I think that's more in line with

Messenger: "Your Highness! The Eorzean City State, Ul'dah, just erupted into complete Anarchy after a shady change in power. And what's more the Adventurer who defeated General van Belsar is being accused of the Sultana's murder as well."

Garlen Emperor: "Well we were planing an invasion but now it seems like the people of Ul'dah would be practically begging us to save them if we showed up now. Lets send a Legion there to settle things, then after things are under control maybe I'll stop by to pay my new subjects a visit."

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

I think that's more in line with

Messenger: "Your Highness! The Eorzean City State, Ul'dah, just erupted into complete Anarchy after a shady change in power. And what's more the Adventurer who defeated General van Belsar is being accused of the Sultana's murder as well."

Garlen Emperor: "Well we were planing an invasion but now it seems like the people of Ul'dah would be practically begging us to save them if we showed up now. Lets send a Legion there to settle things, then after things are under control maybe I'll stop by to pay my new subjects a visit."

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you forgot him lighting a cuban cigar sitting back and smoking it in pleasure for the new territory he got

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

Robin, I'm only going to respond to you one more time as you're beginning to bore me by willingly ignoring any thing but the fact that we can prove why we couldn't stay and fight.
You mentioned something being wrong with my assessment on archers, so I'll go ahead and enlighten every one to the fact that I am an Archer IRL and have been for almost 10 years.

Now it only takes one shot to kill some one if well aimed, in humans it is The Neck (A hard to hit sweet spot and near instant death), The Chest (Takes about 10-15s to die) The Spleen and Liver (Not instantly fatal but will kill via blood loss in an around one Hour) and the Arm pit and Groin (Both of which are difficult and circumstantial "Lucky Shots" that will cause fatal blood loss in about 5-10 minutes).

So then there are plenty of ways to disable and or maim with arrows like when they shot Tancred's knee. One archer wouldn't be able to kill us all but we saw at least 4 aiming for Thancred and any medieval style standing army will have a Dedicated Archer regiment. (The God's Quiver in Gridania being a specialized Archer Corp.) So they had enough archers to do the job. Even if they had one archer per scion they could have taken us down easily. It's the 12th Century equivalent of bringing a knife (or sword in this case) to a gun fight. And even if the PC was a Bard or Archer, that's 1 vs an Army. Still not good odds since they would have been surrounded and over run by ground troops while targeting other archers.

Most of our problems with your posts have been your unwillingness to acknowledge any flaw in your arguments and your unnecessary inclusion of real world politics and propaganda (Which is what I had a personal problem with since I'm from the USA my self and what you were saying about us is as far from the truth as mole men in antarctica) so if you're willing to be civil and adult like we'll happily acknowledge you again. But until then this will be even my last acknowledgement to any of your posts.

I'm sorry, but that's how it is. Good day and Good Luck.

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Kid. This is not reality... don't start to argue with it. It would be dumb. I know a lot about real weapons far above arrows. But this is worthless here. In reality no one can destroy a stone pillar with one hit. You can't summon ray bombs. Or heal people with a simple touch.

It's desperate what you are trying to do here. Don't try to make me feel embarrassed for you. Just think before you write, okay?

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Originally Posted by gamesmart

Details aside, the point is that such a conflict would basically scream to the Garleans "HEY LOOK WE'RE INFIGHTING COME TAKE OVER." Especially with a new emperor, that is an extremely dangerous prospect.

However, your information on archery was quite enlightening. Thanks for the read. (However, by "Growing" did you mean groin?)

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We got this situation now because we did not solve it. We now got the problem, that Uldah is in danger to become a Garlean exklave with Lolo at power. If we had done something to stop this coup, then no. But of course it is not real and Square can simply decide what happens. They could also just put Lolo in a dress and make him dance with the cat girls, never caring about this at all. But if this would be real, the chance that Uldah now just allies with the greater power of the empire - would be major. Also the danger of a civil war is now the greatest. With a Lolo alive, not dead. Civil wars are pretty standard in coherence with change of power. Of course, like the thing with Lolo who suddenly wants to dance instead of rule, Square can switch this on and off as they like.

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Originally Posted by Dererk

Its starting to get sad now lol I think pretty much half here says the story and reasons we ran wer fine others want to lock up all the writers in a remote place and threaten to kill them if they don't re write it while they sit quietly and suck their thumb and when they are at last done the people will still throw a hissy fit saying no no no no you can't do that.

why we ran chance of doing anything but will result in a civil war in Ul Dah leaving Eorzea weakened.

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Seems more like you want to kill someone. No one ever said, that the writers are terrible or something. It's about some minor points which don't make sense and could be improved or solved in the future. Just because you and some others are ignoring them does not make them go away. As said often enough: Critic helps people to advance. No one is perfect. Of course the critic has to be valid.