Wait as Default on Controllers

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Originally Posted by sarehptar

Then why is that person bringing that up as an example here? In that case, it's just totally irrelevant to the situation, which is defaulting to wait in places where defaulting to wait actually happens...

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Well, that's how the duty window used to be for all the dungeons. Essentially, it's the past system, and the flaw still shows up, even when the entire group has gathered up knowing that the window will pop soon, the system that some seem to argue that they had absolutely no problem with. It's exactly what some of the posters are asking for; seems relevant to me.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

Well, that's how the duty window used to be for all the dungeons. Essentially, it's the past system, and the flaw still shows up, even when the entire group has gathered up knowing that the window will pop soon, the system that some seem to argue that they had absolutely no problem with. It's exactly what some of the posters are asking for; seems relevant to me.

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As has been stated many times on this thread, it certainly doesn't seem to me that anyone is arguing for a total return to the old methods; clearly, people are asking for an option to select which button will be the default. Definitely no one has said "I want the FCOB of Yes/No" feature everywhere... -.- Furthermore, maybe there isn't a "confirm withdrawal?" option on FCOB, but there is a confirm withdrawal for standard dungeons now, which already protects against this kind of accidental misclicking, meaning that the Wait button is essentially useless for the issue she is describing (accidental withdraw)--on a standard dungeon, when the default was confirm, to accidentally withdraw yourself, you had to press right and then X. With wait defaulted, to accidentally withdraw yourself, you have to press... right and then X! It's exactly the same, so how does adding "Wait" as default in any way protect against accidentally withdrawing from a standard dungeon/trial? It doesn't. Only the added "confirm withdrawal" option does.

It still boggles the mind that anyone would be arguing against giving people more options in this game...

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Originally Posted by sarehptar

It still boggles the mind that anyone would be arguing against giving people more options in this game...

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Quoted for truth.

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Originally Posted by sarehptar

You just undermined your own argument though--if this happened just last night, that means it's still possible to misclick, even with "Wait" as the default. So what is the point of even having Wait? It literally does nothing.

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It's a different window.

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Originally Posted by sarehptar

Then why is that person bringing that up as an example here? In that case, it's just totally irrelevant to the situation, which is defaulting to wait in places where defaulting to wait actually happens...

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It was just an example of a similar problem and how it happens often. The duty confirmation window until recently shared the same problem. I didn't think this was a leap see what I was getting at here.

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Originally Posted by Cutie_McSnuggles

If 'you' read this thread you'll notice that it's asking for an option to change the default. Not to change the default for everyone. So... why are you against it?

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If you notice I said it to a quote where people just clearly don't get why it was added to begin with. Not against the option.

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Originally Posted by sarehptar

It still boggles the mind that anyone would be arguing against giving people more options in this game...

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Boggles my mind that you can't see who what I quoted and responded to in terms of the broader argument. I never said a lack of options was bad. Did I? I explained why this was a good feature.

It's like people only read half of what I said.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Boggles my mind that you can't see who what I quoted and responded to in terms of the broader argument. I never said a lack of options was bad.

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Was I even responding to you anymore? No.

My last point was a general comment that it seems bizarre to me that there even are "two sides" to this issue, given that what is being asked for here is an option, which makes any need for argument completely moot in the first place.

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Originally Posted by sarehptar

My last point was a general comment that it seems bizarre to me that there even are "two sides" to this issue, given that what is being asked for here is an option, which makes any need for argument completely moot in the first place.

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LOL Also quoted for truth. And for making me laugh.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

If you notice I said it to a quote where people just clearly don't get why it was added to begin with. Not against the option.

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Also, sorry Tinggy. I'm just so used to being on the opposite side of discussions with you I automatically assume you don't agree with me. LOL

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Originally Posted by sarehptar

*snip*.

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You said it wasn't relevant, I simply told you why it was. Nothing more, nothing less. You kind of just going off on me for pointing out you were mistaken.

And to be fair the wait option does stop you from accidently accepting or accidently dropping out of the queue.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

You said it wasn't relevant, I simply told you why it was. Nothing more, nothing less. You kind of just going off on me for pointing out you were mistaken.

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Your explanation of why it was relevant was fine by me; I got it when you explained it. What I was "going off on" was your comment of "It's exactly what some of the posters are asking for," because, like I said in my post, it seems (to me at least!) that is really not the case, no one is asking for FCOB yes/ no with no other misclick protection options, particularly as there are already other protections (hence why I brought up confirmation withdrawal) that no one is arguing against.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

And to be fair the wait option does stop you from accidently accepting or accidently dropping out of the queue.

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And part of my post was showing that it doesn't protect against accidentally dropping out in normal dungeons/trials because the number of buttons to accidentally drop out is the exact same as it was when "commence" was the default. It does protect against accidentally commencing before you want to, but a lot of the arguments from people on this thread claiming to have this happen to them (while gathering, while with a retainer, etc.) are actually impossible, so...

Make it an option to select which button you want to be the default, then everyone is happy. Tada. There should literally have been no debate about that at all, is all I'm saying.

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Originally Posted by sarehptar

Your explanation of why it was relevant was fine by me; I got it when you explained it. What I was "going off on" was your comment of "It's exactly what some of the posters are asking for," because, like I said in my post, it seems (to me at least!) that is really not the case, no one is asking for FCOB yes/ no with no other misclick protection options, particularly as there are already other protections (hence why I brought up confirmation withdrawal) that no one is arguing against.

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Well I was remembering some of the posts along the lines of "why did they change it" or "they shouldn't have changed it" or some feel similar to that. Looks like I just used the wrong word.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

Well I was remembering some of the posts along the lines of "why did they change it" or "they shouldn't have changed it" or some feel similar to that. Looks like I just used the wrong word.

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Then I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were talking about the people who just didn't like the new change in general; I thought you were actually saying that some people wanted to go to the yes/no with no protections option. Sorry if I seemed like I was personally attacking you or anything!

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Originally Posted by sarehptar

*snip*

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Don't worry about it, and just for the record, I ran into more trouble accidentally commencing than withdrawing. It wasn't a huge problem per se, but it was definitely a nuisance, especially when it would start pretty much instantly.

Anyway, I don't mind if they add in some option to change the default or something along those lines.

No offense taken McSnuggles. I tend to be an unpopular opinion panda.

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Originally Posted by sarehptar

Then I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were talking about the people who just didn't like the new change in general

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Please read things more carefully to avoid confusion. I was making the same point and Mutemutt was backing it up.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

Don't worry about it, and just for the record, I ran into more trouble accidentally commencing than withdrawing. It wasn't a huge problem per se, but it was definitely a nuisance, especially when it would start pretty much instantly.

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I must be the only person in the world who has never accidentally commenced. XD I guess this depends on what classes you are playing though; I imagine if your queues are super long all the time (poor DPS) you do get bored and start doing other things which could get you in trouble... I wonder also if system isn't part of it. On my PS4, the *ding* sound happens before the duty window pops up, but it sounds like for other people that's not the case?

In any case, I hope in the future this kind of thread will get the devs thinking and make them consider making new features optional right from the start. I'm sure they want their hard work on the new features to be valued, but with everybody's play style and needs being different, letting people select the options that works best for them could save a lot of people getting flustered on the forums. >_<

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Please read things more carefully to avoid confusion. I was making the same point and Mutemutt was backing it up.

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Please don't confuse being talked about with being talked to. Just because I mentioned one small idea of yours in that last post to Mutemutt in which I apparently "went off" (your point about accidental withdrawal) does not mean that post was in any way, shape, or form addressed to you. Please read things more carefully to avoid confusion.

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Originally Posted by sarehptar

I imagine if your queues are super long all the time (poor DPS) you do get bored and start doing other things which could get you in trouble... I wonder also if system isn't part of it. On my PS4, the *ding* sound happens before the duty window pops up, but it sounds like for other people that's not the case?

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You nailed it on the head right there. When queues take forever I don't walk away and just wait for my controller to ding. More specifically I'm on a pc using an xbox controller so I don't even have that ability to hear my controller ding. So i'll be sitting there filling my time doing something else and right as I'm navigating the menu and hit the A button accept a selection or the B to back out and bam the popup window appears right at that moment. Before you realize what happens you've already selected the default option or canceled out.

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Originally Posted by sarehptar

Please don't confuse being talked about with being talked to. Just because I mentioned one small idea of yours in that last post to Mutemutt in which I apparently "went off" (your point about accidental withdrawal) does not mean that post was in any way, shape, or form addressed to you. Please read things more carefully to avoid confusion.

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So I guess you didn't say this right after I made my initial post making the same point?

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Originally Posted by sarehptar

You just undermined your own argument though--if this happened just last night, that means it's still possible to misclick, even with "Wait" as the default. So what is the point of even having Wait? It literally does nothing.

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Right. You didn't say anything to me where reading more carefully may have prevented the entire argument. Gotcha. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

I think this thread has brought forward two really great ideas to cater to everyone's wishes.
1. Give us the option to choose where our cursors defaults to.
2. Give us the option to make pop up windows not pull focus. (Some one specifically mentioned trade windows and I can't tell you how many times I've accidentally canceled those. LOL)

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Originally Posted by Cutie_McSnuggles

2. Give us the option to make pop up windows not pull focus. (Some one specifically mentioned trade windows and I can't tell you how many times I've accidentally canceled those. LOL)

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This would help in many situations. I think that is indeed a really good take away from this thread. The commencement window was a good start, but we need to take it further. Adding adding a default option is a good start, and moving any other attention grabbing windows to the side bar notifications would probably take it even further. What other situations does this happen in? The main one off the top of my head is the coil entry window and thankfully you generally know when that's going to pop since you're in a group. Normally for us it's just someone backing out of a menu canceling the moment the pop-up appears.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

So I guess you didn't say this right after I made my initial post making the same point? Right. You didn't say anything to me where reading more carefully may have prevented the entire argument. Gotcha. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

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Seriously, you are working hard to make this all about yourself, aren't you? I was speaking to you at first, never said I wasn't, but Mutemutt addressed my reply and explained the FCOB differences to me (I wouldn't know about them, I am taking my sweet time with second coil, personally), and then I switched topics to address her line about people wanting it exactly that way, using the original issue of confirmation withdrawal to demonstrate that there are protections already other than needing to default to wait. I was talking to her. If your opinion is the same as hers, that's great, but your original post did not make that clear and no amount of re-reading would have made it so, and in the end, my last reply (which is what I literally just said in my last post) was just not addressed to you.

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Originally Posted by sarehptar

your original post did not make that clear and no amount of re-reading would have made it so

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Mutemutt got it. *shrug*

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Mutemutt got it. *shrug*

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Part of that is because Mutemutt knew the FCOB window was different. But beyond that, I think you are a bit confused about my point--my original post to you was asking what is the relevance of defaulting to wait if people are still able to misclick, as your friend did with FCOB. Mutemutt make it clear the window is different, and then explained further to demonstrate for me--who did not know the window differences--that what you were suggesting was pretty much that wait is useful because in the older system used for FCOB, your friend misclicked. However, my last post in the "argument" to Mutemutt was about people wanting to use the FCOB yes/no + no protections system, and I pointed out that that was not the case and that there are already other protections provided that help to prevent accidentally withdrawing. That's just not in any way directly responding to your original post about wait being useful to you.

I'm still talking about your initial response to me as I quoted above, but as I said, whatever helps you sleep at night.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

I'm still talking about your initial response to me as I quoted above, but as I said, whatever helps you sleep at night.

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And what was quoted was the response in which I was confused about FCOB's window being different. Carefully reading your post would not have made that point any clearer to me, as I was missing a critical piece of information that was not stated in your post... When this piece of information was provided to me, the point of your original post became clear and I dropped it and moved on to a different idea in my conversation with Mutemutt.

So what was the point of this response well after the issue was clarified?

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Please read things more carefully to avoid confusion.

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There was none.

In any case, since you apparently agree that options are good, we're of the same mind in the end anyway. /shrug

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Originally Posted by sarehptar

I must be the only person in the world who has never accidentally commenced. XD I guess this depends on what classes you are playing though; I imagine if your queues are super long all the time (poor DPS) you do get bored and start doing other things which could get you in trouble... I wonder also if system isn't part of it. On my PS4, the *ding* sound happens before the duty window pops up, but it sounds like for other people that's not the case?

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Well I usually queued as a healer, so wait times weren't very long, but I wouldn't go afk or anything during the waits. Since I use x to target everything and make selections in the menu, there's a lot of chances for the commence window to just pop up and whisk me away for another wonderful romp through the Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak. Oh and on the ps3 the "ding" definitely happens at the same time the window pops up, in other words, too late.

And I have to say, it's really weird seeing my name mentioned so much...

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

And I have to say, it's really weird seeing my name mentioned so much...

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I'm sorry that it had to be mentioned that much...

Maybe guaranteeing the "ding" happens a second or two before the windows pops up would be among the best options. I also queue as heals and also use X to target everything but I haven't had the issue of commencing accidentally, probably just because the sound on mine does come first.

Unrelated to your post Mute (now I am paranoid that I have to clarify exactly who I am talking to at any second...), but I don't want to double post: I'm for the idea of the commence window opening the background if it were added as an option, rather than a default. Personally, I am all for minimizing the amount of clicks/work I have to do to get into a dungeon, and on the PS4, sometimes the "select" to cycle through windows isn't as accurate as it could be--if the duty window opens in the background and they aren't careful about which option "select" goes to immediately, you could end up having to cycle through many different options before you can bring up the duty window... And heaven's forfend you click one too many times and have to cycle through everything that "select" can highlight on your screen (chat, open quests, any other open windows, hell, the mini map options if you aren't careful) all over again. That would be a pain. XD

And another patch goes by without fixing this. Please change this SE.

Hi SE, me again. Are you even working on this?

You'll be fixing this next patch, right?

This thread: 'it's maintenance and i'm bored so i need something minor to complain about because gamer first world problems.'

Edit: several patches in a row, i might add. That's conviction.

I'm quite disappointed to see this still hasn't been addressed. :(

Hello again SE. I am saddened to see that this still has not been addressed in 3.0. Would you please consider addressing it soon?

I'm glad they haven;t changed this. It's saved me from hitting the wrong button at times.

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Originally Posted by VoltaAsura

I'm glad they haven;t changed this. It's saved me from hitting the wrong button at times.

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You realize that the change this thread is asking for is an option. You will be unaffected if you like it the way it currently is.

IIRC it was requested by some people. I don't know who they are but this change is annoying.

It's not just controller users. I use mouse & keyboard but usually I'll press Num 0 to confirm duty finder.

And here goes another patch without anything changing. Can you please make this a higher priority?