Please do NOT alter Dark Knight AF for female characters.

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Originally Posted by Mahri

See, I wouldn't mind them doing this on a handful of sideline armor sets just to see how people set up their glamours.

Hell, look at the female swimsuits vs. male swimsuits. Questionably-supportive bikinis vs. straight-up fetish wear.

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honestly I loved how they handled the bikini situation xD it was like, "oh you want the girls to dress less? here! they would like you to as well, now bow to your miqo'te mistress'!"

Yes, please. D; I do not appreciate that as a DRG my belly has to be shown off and I am sure I won't like it as DRK either if it happens.

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Originally Posted by Mahri

See, I stand by my opinions on exposed skin...but I'll agree that putting girls in buff chiseled dudeplate looks precisely as silly as giving guys armor with built-in breasts. If you're gonna have that look you might as well go the whole way on both genders. That soldiery gear wouldn't be nearly as jarring if the breastplate were a smooth conventional one.

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Agreed, I was so dissapointed with it (and the warrior of light armor from Labyrinth), it saddens me lol.

Why? You don't want to look like this?

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/20...00-d4qfh64.jpg

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Originally Posted by Mahri

See, I stand by my opinions on exposed skin...but I'll agree that putting girls in buff chiseled dudeplate looks precisely as silly as giving guys armor with built-in breasts. If you're gonna have that look you might as well go the whole way on both genders. That soldiery gear wouldn't be nearly as jarring if the breastplate were a smooth conventional one.

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I agree with your original post (it's not clear to me if we have some sort of disagreement somewhere). If there is some disagreement from my previous comments, I want to make it clear I've been only talking about non-vanity armor. Sexy lady and beefcake man outfits have their place, but armor should be armor (especially for tank gear) and shouldn't have some strange cutting out of a piece of gear for females just to show some skin.

with dark knight we could probably look at Livia Sas Junius as a rough draft of how they would like to handle the AF at the very least, if not heavy gear all together for females. You can tell she's a women, it's plated but tight, and shows her figure, unlike Gaius or Nero whom are a bit more plated. This was and still is more or less by design to still show some sex appeal w/o showing the skin. On a side note, she was also a very empowered bad girl character, and I look forward to more like her in this game. (Cloud of Darkness incoming :D)
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...sas_Junius.jpg

I do have to wonder though.. tank gear is usually not as exposed/exposed at all as mentioned above so why would they change that now? Even the Bravely Default one was completely covered.

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...ark_Knight.png

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Originally Posted by File2ish

I agree with your original post (it's not clear to me if we have some sort of disagreement somewhere). If there is some disagreement from my previous comments, I want to make it clear I've been only talking about non-vanity armor.

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Oh, I don't think we really disagree, looking your posts over. At least not much.

For those that DO disagree with my point: If they ended up cutting pieces of the Dark Knight armor off to make it sexier there's still a slim chance it'd look fine in it's own right, just less, y'know, Dark Knight.

By the same token, if the gun class ends up being Corsair or something similarly pirate-themed, it would seem like a missed opportunity not to have at least a partially bared chest for guys and some kind of gratuitous corset/bodice for girls, in the vein of the DoW shirt gear you get while leveling.

Honestly I'm largely impressed by what the art team for this game manages to put out and every piece of feedback I have comes out of good faith.

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Originally Posted by Esper

with dark knight we could probably look at Livia Sas Junius as a rough draft of how they would like to handle the AF at the very least, if not heavy gear all together for females. <snip>
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...sas_Junius.jpg

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See, I thought about that 'bad girl' angle, and how if you look at comics you'd see all kinds of belief-straining half naked examples even in villainous warrior types. But Livia's design kinda nails it in that you need not bare anything and still have a feminine look.

See what I mean about this game's artists? :D

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

I do have to wonder though.. tank gear is usually not as exposed/exposed at all as mentioned above so why would they change that now? Even the Bravely Default one was completely covered.

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...ark_Knight.png

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Because completely covered characters would all look the exact same. People tend to want to see their character in the gear in MMOs and not just be a walking gear model.

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Originally Posted by Ladon

Because completely covered characters would all look the exact same. People tend to want to see their character in the gear in MMOs and not just be a walking gear model.

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The tanks are all covered now outside of the head piece and all look the same though..? And I never said that this is how it would look I was just using that as an example.

no we must have a thong that gives a stupid amount of armour for the sex appeal lol nah i kid but yeah please don't give females skimpy outfits last i need is a tank with nothing but a bra and thong...

That or males should also wear the same because damn im a sexy widdle lalafel in my huge armour thong :D

Fully agree, the female DRG AF had a bad modification. It's not even sexy, just ridiculous, a huge gaping hole in the armor. Why wouldn't an enemy just stab them right in the nude body. I wouldn't mind the female DRK AF being a little different, but it shouldn't have illogical holes to show bare flesh.

i guess you could say it gos by the logic men are less agile then woman hence why woman have less armour in locations.

I'd end up glamoring it anyway, but I too dislike the over-sexualised armors at times. It's one of the reasons I play a Lalafell.

This is something the game has *mostly* been good about. I loved the Paladin AF for how cool and serious my characters could look; still the same as the male paladins. The DRG AF armor was honestly what made me decide not to play them when I first started. I saw the helmet and shoulders and thought "Oh this looks cool" but then as soon as my eyes hit the midriff I just thought "This is stupid as hell, I don't want this" (and there were no glamours at the time, mind you). "Sexy" clothing is fine. "Cool" armors and clothes are fine. But do not try to mix them because the results are always idiotic and just make me veer away from them regardless of potential benefit.

would much prefer a more skin showing drk imo.

hate a full coverage ...anything so I gotta disagree with op.

to each his own but I definitely prefer less>more

I dont have a problem with armor exposing skin, but speaking of drg af it just looks stupid.

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Originally Posted by Fue

I dont have a problem with armor exposing skin, but speaking of drg af it just looks stupid.

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Agree. I agree with this so much. I want full armor. I don't want to show my belly. >_>
I really hope AF 2 doesn't have it.

I also don't have an issue with armor exposing skin also. But the giant hole just doesn't make any sense to me. It feels like a giant target that says "HEY! I'M UNPROTECTED HERE! STAB ME!"

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Originally Posted by Mahri

You see this?

snip)

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Just want to point out that the male DRG AF also has the belly hole, the male one just has a chainmail undershirt. The hole itself is still there.

...Okay, when people keep saying they don't care for realism, yet bring up continuously how "impractical" the Dragoon AF armor is in an MMO that makes you fight things that would kill you, damn whether you are plated in full deck armor or not, I end up just laughing rather than think the same way.
For this topic, I'd rather that DRK Armor actually BE on the same level as Cecil's and Livia's rather than full body armor as is now.
I'm the type of person who loves seeing the female body, BUT I do stand against ridiculousness(but I don't have that at all with the DRG armor), but I hate when people toss out the "reality" segments in an MMO that features monsters that can end you even in full plated armor, let alone anything else.

Also going to point out that the much more recent Ninja AF design features not only the tights instead of the hakama (throwback to FFXI for those diehards I guess) but also a completely arbitrary boob window.

I don't know if male/female gear appearance equality is important to the designers anymore. Check out all that male-exclusive vanity ... I mean wut?

Starting to think I'm a massive perv for loving the DRG AF on females <_<

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Originally Posted by Xhominid

...Okay, when people keep saying they don't care for realism, yet bring up continuously how "impractical" the Dragoon AF armor is in an MMO that makes you fight things that would kill you, damn whether you are plated in full deck armor or not, I end up just laughing rather than think the same way.

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See though, there's nuance.

The female DRG armor isn't bad because it's impractical-looking. The Dragoon armor is completely ludicrous and unrealistic to begin with. Anyone who tried wearing such a thing would need to be sent to the ER if they so much as attempted to scratch their back carelessly. It's bad because it feels like a cynical and lazy attempt to add sex appeal.

If they designed it from the ground up to look deliberately hotter on female characters, it'd be one thing, but the design reads more like the art team got a memo a few hours before a patch went live saying only "NOT GOOD MAKE SEXY" so they just threw up their hands, yanked out the scaly middle section, and called it a night. Maybe that's not literally what happened, but it sure looks like it.

The artists for this game can do better than that. Hell, FFXI's Dragoon AF pulled it off far more reasonably: The metal bits were mounted on a full-body suit for males but a leotard for females. It wasn't practical and it didn't need to be, but at least that design helped to sell the high-flying gymnast aspect of the class. As lots of people in the thread pointed out, that bared stomach of the DRG AF in this game doesn't say anything so much as "stab here".

http://i.imgur.com/KMpPj0w.png

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Originally Posted by Mahri

"...The female DRG armor isn't bad because it's impractical-looking. The Dragoon armor is completely ludicrous and unrealistic to begin with...If they designed it from the ground up to look deliberately hotter on female characters, it'd be one thing, but...The artists for this game can do better than that. ..."

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Like I said, this is a fantasy game ya know? Not a simulator based on realism. If you don't like the art direction of a game, you could always just build your own instead of being a backseat dev, lol.

boob plate, yes please
cut stomach part, yes please
hot pants, yes please
:3

/signed to this

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Originally Posted by Mahri

QQ DRG armor QQ".

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you do know you are playing a game called Final "FANTASY" yeah? Not "let's have everyone in a tin can yay" >.>. Armor from Blade&Soul looks very cool and sexy, some armor in this game sexy, or FFXI red made hot pants very cute and sexy. I really hope SE does not give a damn about this, i can't stand tin can armor.

Personally I want sexy Dark Knight AFs for my female character BUT I wouldn't worry about it too much, I would just like to see some additional glamours in the spirit of light steel and taffeta stuff and hope that the AF gloves and boots work well with them :D

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Originally Posted by ArcticFang

They didn't cut corners for female versions of PLD/WAR AF, so I would expect them to respect the proper plate-covering necessary for their DRK counterparts.

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This. I'm not worried.

Signed. I want my female-highlader DRK to look incredibly cool and that armor is the thing I've been lookig for.

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Originally Posted by Mahri

Snip

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1. Isn't that the same issue on Males? Because the "opening" is the only thing I keep seeing people complain about, not the spikes that obviously would never be on any armor ever. And again, I like the Female Dragoon Armor, barely matters since Dragoons aren't MEANT to be tank level people, their jumping skills basically give them all the evasion in the world so if anything, LESS armor would help them with that realistically.

3. Again, you OUTRIGHT say the armor you praise isn't practical either, but then toss out practicality with the FFXIV. That's getting your cake and eat it too, which doesn't work buster. I LOVE the Monk AF gear because it looks right, would I like it if there was a boob window or a bit more open? Sure, but I'm not craving against it and dead honest, that's not all that practical either for the monsters we face. Stop using that as anything less than it is: You just don't like the outfit.

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Originally Posted by Xhominid

1. Isn't that the same issue on Males? Because the "opening" is the only thing I keep seeing people complain about, not the spikes that obviously would never be on any armor ever. And again, I like the Female Dragoon Armor, barely matters since Dragoons aren't MEANT to be tank level people, their jumping skills basically give them all the evasion in the world so if anything, LESS armor would help them with that realistically.

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pshhhh it's only "slutty" "taky" when it's done to females don't bring reason to this :x

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Originally Posted by Xhominid

Again, you OUTRIGHT say the armor you praise isn't practical either, but then toss out practicality with the FFXIV. That's getting your cake and eat it too, which doesn't work buster. <snip> Stop using that as anything less than it is: You just don't like the outfit.

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I think you might want to reread my posts. Gonna sum this up real quick:

1. Dark Knight armor looks seriously cool like it is and removing chunks of it to make it sexy on girls would only weaken the effect.

2. Dragoon armor's crazy spiky daredevil look is okay, but just yanking the midriff section out for female characters just kinda looks ridiculous and lazily conceived. That's the precedent on which I base the "don't try to sexy it up" suggestion.

3. Who cares about realism? It isn't necessary if an unrealistic design is strong enough to sell the concept. That's the key, though.

If you want to try and mince around my posts to drop the context, or read into them to find a message that isn't there, then I'm flattered. Go crazy. Pretty sure most people in this thread got the message though.

For my part, this is my feedback for Square-Enix to take if they will, because I like what they're doing and I want to see them do it well. If they don't go this route, okay. Lame, but probably still gonna play the job. Maybe it'll look cool anyway, or I'll just glamour over it. :rolleyes:

Lets not forget that there are two sides to this matter. There are people that want a skimp-a-rific version of this armor. SE will adjust it for female characters, I would be very surprised if its identical to the male version.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Starting to think I'm a massive perv for loving the DRG AF on females <_<

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Yeah, I never realized how many people didn't like it. I always liked it fine. I do hope they keep the Dark Knight armor for females looking just like the concept in the OP though.

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Originally Posted by Mahri

I think you might want to reread my posts. Gonna sum this up real quick:

1. Dark Knight armor looks seriously cool like it is and removing chunks of it to make it sexy on girls would only weaken the effect.

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You see that's a personal opinion. I don't want to walk around in that armor as a female. I would prefer something different. If you want that armor create a male AV. I don't see the need to make armor unisex. SE please don't listen to every gender should look the same crowd or at the least provide more than one option for users.

I wish SE would learn that sometimes, less is more, and I dont mean "exposed open spots" in the armor.

This video describes my issues with most of SE's designs....

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide...th-Square-Enix

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Originally Posted by Ladon

Because completely covered characters would all look the exact same. People tend to want to see their character in the gear in MMOs and not just be a walking gear model.

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I agree with this. While I am not a fan of DRG's ridiculous belly window (really? A class specializing in using long, pointy sticks has a hole in their armor PERFECT for jabbing a long pointy stick into?), neither am I a fan of armor that makes it impossible to differentiate between race and gender. I loathed the "tin can" armors for that reason, particularly Darklight. While imposing to be sure, I want to show off my character, not my Darklight.

I tend to doubt, though, that the Dark Knight armor will fall into either trap (needless skin or complete anonymity). There will be differences in design between the male and female armors, as well as changes due to race (I suspect Miqo'te will get their traditional "ear armor"). As others have mentioned, SE is USUALLY pretty good about that kind of thing, outside of wierd anomalies like DRG (or Evenstar - yeaugh!).

In a fantasy MMO like this one, realism can, and should, take a back seat to style. It's not as important that you look realistic, as it does that you look good. That said, it all comes down to what you consider "looking good"; for some, it means more skin (and not necessarily just on females). I don't hold that opinion, but I DO think men should look like men, women should look like women, Elezen should look like Elezen, and so on.

I'm all hands for this!