So Why assume removal of Classes?

If they were to add a real subjob system IT would open lots of interesting and possibly gamebreaking combos.
Unfortunately they will not do it!

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Originally Posted by Noll

If they were to add a real subjob system IT would open lots of interesting and possibly gamebreaking combos.
Unfortunately they will not do it!

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Well, there is a subjob system already, the abilities you can get from your 2 classes, well it's more a subclass than a subjob, but it's the same, more restricted than FFXI's subjob system of course.

I don't mind them removing classes, as long as they stop with the dumb limitations of cross abilities. Give me max cross job abilities and I got no reason to miss classes. If I still get stiffed with 5 from two stinkin' choices to cross with then I don't care for losing classes. They still have their solo uses.

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Originally Posted by lololink

That post means that you would be a terrible game designer.

If the job you are talking about is blue mage then you are wrong, you can add it in the game right now even with the current pattern of class/job ( that is not going to be the same considering how ninjas are ). There are no limitations in the class system, except the diversity in kinds of weapon, which can be fixed easily, but they don't want to.

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Ya that basically what I am thinking how Yoshi-P and the developers plan to handle things.

They may keep class system in 3.0 but adjust it a bit for Summoner and Scholar sake.

Then from 3.0 and beyond they will continue to add new Jobs into the game but the New Jobs will be Stand Alone Jobs that do not require a class.

This way they will no longer need to create new classes for every new Job in FF14 while still keeping the current classes in the game.

In short, they don't need to remove classes but they will simply make new Jobs that don't require classes just like how they're handling Dark Knight.

As of now we still do not know much about how they will handle things in 3.0. All we know is that Dark knight do not require a class and can be obtained once players obtain the expansion. There is little info about how we will obtain Dark Knight in the game currently.

That would be just an excuse. Lore, Cutscenes, Quest all can be re-written to reflect the new changes. They want to make jobs more unique and with classes and cross class abilities that wont happen much. We really dont need cross classes. If they really wanted to give cure to X job they can just do it at a much later level than a WHM gets it and done. No need to pick from a list and no need to equip them anymore.

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Originally Posted by winxbloom61

also ecks almost all final fantasys have used the basic jobs

the only expection really is ff8

even 10 used the job system in some way

even 7 did in a way vincent a gunner yuffie a ninja/theif

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Wow, um. Wow. Okay, I'll do the research FOR YOU.

FFI -(going with most recent iteration) Black Mage, White Mage, Red Mage, Fighter/Warrior, Thief, Monk. Which then were preceeded by Advanced Jobs: Black Wizard, White Wizard, Red Wizard, Knight, Ninja, Master.

FFII - Firion - Hero(not sure if he is considered a specific Job), Maria - Archer, Gus - Monk, Leon - Dark Knight, Mindu - White Mage, Ricard Highwind - Dragoon. (there are a few others but they aren't listed as anything specific)

FFIII - Onion Knight, Freelancer, Warrior, Monk, White Mage, Black Mage, Red Mage, Thief, Ranger, Knight, Scholar, Geomancer, Dragoon, Dark Knight, Evoker, Bard, Black Belt, Devout, Magus, Summoner, Sage, Ninja.

FFIV - Cecil - Dark Knight and Paladin, Kain - Dragoon, Rosa - White Mage and Archer, Cid - Engineer (was he playable? I don't remember), Rydia - Summoner, Tellah - Sage, Edward - Bard, Yang - Monk, Palom - White Mage, Porom - Black Mage, Edge - Ninja.

FFV - Freelancer, Knight, Monk, Thief, Black Mage, White Mage, Blue Mage, Red Mage, Time Mage, Summoner, Berserker, Mystic Knight, Mime, Beast Master, Geomancer, Ninja, Ranger, Bard, Dragoon, Dancer, Samurai, Chemist.

Oye.. this is getting tiring.

FFVI - Locke - Thief, Terra - Esper (basically the game's Summoner), Edgar - Engineer/Machinist, Sabin - Monk, Cyan - Knight, Celes - White Mage if I remember right, Setzer - Gambler, Shadow - Ninja, Relm - Artist?, Strago - Blue Mage, Gogo - Mime. (left out the ones with no job equivalent: Gau, Mog, Umaro)

FFVII - Cloud - Soldier/Warrior/Knight, Tifa - Monk, Cid - Dragoon/Engineer, Yuffie - Ninja/Thief, Vincent - Gunner/Berserker. (left out characters with no clear job inspiration)

FFVIII - Squall - Warrior/Knight, Quistis - Blue Mage, Zell - Monk, Irvine - Marksman/Gunner. (left out character I wasn't sure about)

FFIX - Can't comment other than I know there was a Blm character and a Knight character.

FFX - Can only really comment on Yuna - Summoner and Lulu - Black Mage. (not familiar enough with this one and not searching)

FFXI - Monk, Warrior, Black Mage, White Mage, Red Mage, Blue Mage, Thief, Ninja, Samurai, Dark Knight, Paladin, Summoner, Beastmaster, Bard, Dancer, Ranger, Dragoon, Puppetmaster, Corsair, Scholar, Geomancer, Rune Fencer.

I'm going to stop here. This isn't including FFXII and XIII or the Tactics series because I think I've done enough.

My post before this was because you stated "final fantasy dosnt have that many jobs to start with" and then you proceed to ignore that statement in your very next post by trying (badly) to list some jobs from some of the games.

As long ad my sch and my whm will keep swiftcast (and cleric stance for sch!)

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Originally Posted by Ronyx

That would be just an excuse. Lore, Cutscenes, Quest all can be re-written to reflect the new changes. They want to make jobs more unique and with classes and cross class abilities that wont happen much. We really dont need cross classes. If they really wanted to give cure to X job they can just do it at a much later level than a WHM gets it and done. No need to pick from a list and no need to equip them anymore.

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No you can't, that would create major flaws in a lot of quests, WHM, DRG ( why a DRG guild would even exist in gridania ? ) or even SCH or SUM, the player is the only one that can be one of these, you can't have them in the ACN guild. The warriors have been banished from the city states, black magic is forbidden and considered a myth, so no guilds. The only one that could work are PLD and BRD.

I'm going to stop here. This isn't including FFXII and XIII or the Tactics series because I think I've done enough.

My post before this was because you stated "final fantasy dosnt have that many jobs to start with" and then you proceed to ignore that statement in your very next post by trying (badly) to list some jobs from some of the games.[/QUOTE]
um from all those that proves my point we have all those jobs already lol expect the gunner
take a good luck the wizards are just super powered normal so they dont count we got smn the berseker is basicly combined with the warrior ~_~ of course we got blm/whm/sch already and due to the class system some of the other jobs just arent possible

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Originally Posted by winxbloom61

um from all those that proves my point we have all those jobs already lol expect the gunner
take a good luck the wizards are just super powered normal so they dont count we got smn the berseker is basicly combined with the warrior ~_~ of course we got blm/whm/sch already and due to the class system some of the other jobs just arent possible

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Um, but if new jobs don't utilize the class "system" like Dark Knight, then what is holding them back? I'll tell you. It's the DPS, Healer, Tank system that is holding other jobs back because everything has to be pigeonholed into one of those three categories. It has nothing to do with the classes, and all do to with what role they can fit.

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Originally Posted by winxbloom61

I'm going to stop here. This isn't including FFXII and XIII or the Tactics series because I think I've done enough.

My post before this was because you stated "final fantasy dosnt have that many jobs to start with" and then you proceed to ignore that statement in your very next post by trying (badly) to list some jobs from some of the games.
um from all those that proves my point we have all those jobs already lol expect the gunner
take a good luck the wizards are just super powered normal so they dont count we got smn the berseker is basicly combined with the warrior ~_~ of course we got blm/whm/sch already and due to the class system some of the other jobs just arent possible

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Black Mage
White Mage
Red Mage
Warrior
Thief
Monk
Knight
Ninja
Dark Knight
Dragoon
Geomancer
Blue Mage
Time Mage,
Berserker
Mystic Knight
Beast Master
Dancer,
Samurai,
Chemist.
Engineer/Machinist
Gambler
Artist
Gunner
Puppetmaster
Corsair
Rune Fencer

26 jobs, and that doesn't count the upgraded jobs ( like red sage ) that aren't likely to come, but still are possible, and there isn't any of the FF tactics exclusive jobs. ( I also removed THF ).
We have only 10 jobs as from tuesday.

So we don't even have half of these jobs, and I think 26 is a lot of jobs for a game...

Well, obviously, they want someone to tank for all of those new Ninjas.

Keep in mind that there are other options to handle the release of Stand Alone Jobs for FF14.

One way they can handle is that...

they keep classes so Classes can serve as starting (aka Basic) classes and their Jobs serve as starting Jobs. At 3.0 point they will no longer release new classes in 3.0 but instead add in new Jobs as Stand Alone Jobs.

These Stand Alone Jobs will most likely not be playable at the Start like how Rogues/Ninjas are but they will not require any special condition to unlock. However, players will be required to find these Stand Alone Job Trainers some where in the World.

Think of Stand Alone Jobs as those special secret Jobs in a RPG (well not really a secret) where Players can become these secret Jobs anytime they want at any level as long they can find and reach the Job Trainer loction somewhere in the World.

What is far more likely to happen is splitting all current classes into two job choices while at the same time in future occasionally bringing out a new class that will also be split into two options when all current classes have two options each. Such as choosing between PLD or DRK, Ninja or Samurai, BRD or whatever the Gunner is etc. An alternative is the advanced job types which was mentioned a long time ago as possibly bringing out with current job+job equals advanced job. Also keep in mind they would not have added a new class with the rogue if they were planning to remove classes few months later, no new classes in 3.0 could very well mean they have all the classes already added to game which can be used to apply the new jobs which will be the second choice of job on preexisting class.

Thing's aren't looking too good on the variety front

Black Mage-Have it
White Mage-Have it
Red Mage-Planned
Warrior-Have it
Thief-Rolled into Ninja/Rogue
Monk-Have it
Knight-Have it
Ninja -Have it
Dark Knight-Coming
Dragoon-Have it
Geomancer-Rolled into White Mage
Blue Mage-BLU WHEN YOSHI
Time Mage-Most of their skills already in game, Yoshi said we'll never get any speed skills like haste
Berserker-Rolled into Warrior
Mystic Knight- WHEN YOSHI
Beast Master-No comment, don't know about this class
Dancer-Supposedly planned
Samurai-Coming(?)
Chemist-Have it
Engineer/Machinist-Cid is it
Gambler-WHEN YOSHI
Artist-No comment
Gunner-Coming
Puppetmaster-No comment (Isn't this similar to Beast/Summoner)
Corsair-No comment
Rune Fencer-Most likely folded into Mystic Knight

Ishgardian's have no class system.
Eorzan's are the one with the Class to Job system.

Simple.

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Originally Posted by Daranion

Geomancer-Rolled into White Mage

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Nope, Geomancer don't only use Earth magic, but all the elements of nature in a different way mages does.

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Originally Posted by Daranion

Time Mage-Most of their skills already in game, Yoshi said we'll never get any speed skills like haste

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Not really, they could add it if they want, it would be a little different than the classic ones but so are all the jobs in FFXIV, and there are haste skills in the game ( Selene and NIN Fûton )

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Originally Posted by Daranion

Berserker-Rolled into Warrior

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It can still be a different job, especially if they do it like FFX-2 ( so maybe a pugilist second job ? )

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Originally Posted by Daranion

Chemist-Have it

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Err, No ?

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Originally Posted by Daranion

Puppetmaster-No comment (Isn't this similar to Beast/Summoner)

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Not really, there can be multiple job using pets with different mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Daranion

Rune Fencer-Most likely folded into Mystic Knight

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Not really : http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Rune_Fencer
You could also add some classes from the FF tactis such as templar, illusionist, green mage, trickster.

Or they could even create some new ones, I can imagine the hype it would make if they release a judge/legatus job with gunblades.

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Originally Posted by Daranion

Thief-Rolled into Ninja/Rogue

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By that logic, Ranger was rolled into Archer/Bard...but it could still exist as a proper job later on.

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Originally Posted by Daranion

Geomancer-Rolled into White Mage

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Nope. Geomancer skills were dependent on the field they fought on, and while Conjurers/White Mages DO use elemental skills, it's not the same.

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Originally Posted by Daranion

Chemist-Have it

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Nope. Alchemist (DoH) is NOT a Chemist.
Chemist was a job that mixed up items in actual combat.
But given Yoshi-P's stand on combat-based classes not using consumables for their skills, then it's unlikely it'll happen...unless it's altered in some way.

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Originally Posted by Daranion

Puppetmaster-No comment (Isn't this similar to Beast/Summoner)

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In that it's a pet-based job? Sure...but the similarities kind of end there.
What made Puppetmaster different, is that they could "customize" their puppets with different parts to change their purpose and stats.

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Originally Posted by Exodus-E

Chemist was a job that mixed up items in actual combat.
But given Yoshi-P's stand on combat-based classes not using consumables for their skills, then it's unlikely it'll happen...unless it's altered in some way.

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They don't have to use actual items, ninjas don't use items to throw shuriken as they usually do.

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Originally Posted by lololink

They don't have to use actual items, ninjas don't use items to throw shuriken as they usually do.

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Yep, hence the "altered" part in my post.
The way I see it, they could pull something similar to the Ninja's Mudra combinations, except with non-consumable items.

I would rather see classes be made just as good as jobs instead of removed. Just because DRK is coming doesn't mean that PLD and WAR will be obsolete and not worth playing. I want classes to be given the same usability, simply removing it would cut out huge chunks of the game's content and lore, removal would be a huge waste and a missed opportunity in gameplay variety.

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Originally Posted by Exodus-E

That stuff you said

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It's readily apparent I never played 11 so I can't touch on those last two comments. But as for Thief being it's own class, why? Ninja/Rogue got it's steal skill. What else would Thiefs add?

Geomancers in the classic series all boiled down to pressing "Geomancy" and that system obviously won't work here in 14. Conjurers already have a strong base for it and I can see Geomancer maybe getting added as a job crystal with some enhanced skills like "Quicksand" but not more than that. Unless you want Geomancer to work based off terrain in which case, well, that'd be a pain in the ass for Square to do. Also it would probably lead to doing nothing but shadowflare while in Coil for 9999 damage. Actually, let's add that in.

Yes and Blackmage totally can't make it into the game without elemental wheel ! Oh wait...

A simple way to have Geomancer while keeping the original concept would be ( like BLU ) to have them learn skills from the earth during their quest that they can use later, they just have to find a caster gameplay et voilà ! Obviously they'll get away from the original job concept, or else warrior would only spam attack buttons, mages would spam Ultima or meteor, summoner would keep summon Bahamut or Odin, etc...

Hmm so you're proposing a sort of AOE focused class then or something? Because they'd have to be different form conjurers since lol Earth Water and Air are all their things. OR are you saying they should be like a super coinjurer with hyper forms of those spells Like the BLM upgrade to THM

Edit: I meant AOE because most famous Geomancer spells were AOE

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Originally Posted by Daranion

Hmm so you're proposing a sort of AOE focused class then or something? Because they'd have to be different form conjurers since lol Earth Water and Air are all their things. OR are you saying they should be like a super coinjurer with hyper forms of those spells Like the BLM upgrade to THM

Edit: I meant AOE because most famous Geomancer spells were AOE

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They are not all AoE spells there are some single target spells too from Geo :
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/G...l_Fantasy_V%29

Gust, branch spear for instance, of course if it's realeased in FFXIV I think it would have a good AoE capacity like BLM, but they can inspire from the classic spells to get inspiration, Wind blades, spells based on leafs or branches, stalactite, will'o wisp etc... there are a lot of things they can do with it than just CNJ in more offensive.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

I would rather see classes be made just as good as jobs instead of removed. Just because DRK is coming doesn't mean that PLD and WAR will be obsolete and not worth playing. I want classes to be given the same usability, simply removing it would cut out huge chunks of the game's content and lore, removal would be a huge waste and a missed opportunity in gameplay variety.

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Making classes even with jobs defeats the purpose of having jobs in the first place.

"I think they just diversify
Some classes like Arcanist have 2 jobs
Some Jobs will have no class
and that's it...
I don't think they would have introduced Rogue if the plan was to get rid of Class few months later"

Actually if you look at the released skill pools for rogue and ninja you'll see unlike other jobs ninja and rogue both have full sets of unique skills as well as overlapping ones this is unusual for classes/jobs which currently only add about 5 skills after unlocking the advanced job every 5 levels and gated behind quests. Ninja and rogue are designed to split and split seamlessly, both have distinct AF sets and Weapons, as well as separate lore, and unique identity. They are here early because it was promised early and it was either release it now or scrap both. With the release of 3.0 it is highly likely rogue will become the more recognized Thief when the classes are renamed and reworked. Don't get attached to Eorzea as it is the 3.0 team will rewrite the world as we know it, and the final vestiges of the embarrassment that was FFXIV 1.0 Tanaka's $80 paper weight will be gone forever.

Hatred of a game designer is no good reason to make design decisions. We'll see how rogue does in 2.4, and if it stands on its own in 50 content. I'll probably test the experience myself, as I hate ninja anyway.

I have a strong feeling that they will get rid of classes, turn rogue into a job come 3.0 "it already use a different weapon type compare to ninja" only thing they would have to do is give ROG new skills for it to be job and adds new skills to fill what was removed from NIN's class now that class is gone, and SMN/SCH will be separated both will take some skills from acn and both will be given some new skills to set them apart even more. Getting rid of the class system will give the devs more flexibility with adding new jobs.

this only my opinion, when u reach lvl 60 u have an option if u want dark knight u must sacrifice ur paladin soul crystal turn to dark, or if u want still be paladin u renewal ur paladin soul crystal, then for WHM it will be dancer since dancer use staff like this


http://img-cache.cdn.gaiaonline.com/..._005-large.jpg

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Originally Posted by Swanepoel

this only my opinion, when u reach lvl 60 u have an option if u want dark knight u must sacrifice ur paladin soul crystal turn to dark, or if u want still be paladin u renewal ur paladin soul crystal, then for WHM it will be dancer since dancer use staff like this


http://img-cache.cdn.gaiaonline.com/..._005-large.jpg

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Um no some people really dislike the gladitor /paladin just cuz it is paladin

I don't see what the fuss is regarding lack of base class for some jobs. Effectively there isn't a class system now. Who actually plays their base class beyond level 30? It's basically a straight line shot to 50 level job now.

Really, the only thing that the class system does now is restrict the gear that my retainer can use (they are stuck on class and cannot wear job only gear). Which is annoying btw.

Currently, classes are pretty much pointless. There's rarely a good reason to play as a class rather than as a job - even in pre-30 content where the level sync bars you from using any job abilities (and nerfs the number of cross-class skills you can use!), the raw stats you get from the soul gem still typically meant it was better to participate as the job rather than the class.

That said, it was my hope that SE would FIX these issues - that they would make classes viable again. It was possible, whether it be through specialized gear or class-only job abilities. They could have turned it around. The Dark Knight announcement has pretty much dashed these hopes. SE has effectively thrown up their hands and admitted that they lack the creativity or dedication to fix what is broken, and so are tossing it in the trash instead, along with any future hopes of interesting multi-job options for classes (SMN/SCH will likely remain the only such instance).

This was disappointing, but not surprising. By the same token, I very much doubt that the class system that exists will be removed, as that, too, would require creativity or dedication. It's easier to just leave it, a dangling, useless appendix on the game, than it would be to cut it out - so that is what they will do, the easier option.