Loosing players after update?

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

The SMN is fine as it is. I like it like that from day one. I really don't understand why some people want to mess with the summoner so much.

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I'd say one of 2 reasons might explain this:

1) They envisioned a job that would outdamage every other job by a factor of 9000 (agreed, that's a gross exaggeration but you get the idea)

or 2) They envisioned an underpowered job they could use as a healer (because "efficiency")

I don't understand why people get upset on a minor patch.

9 pages in and no jokes about the misspelling of losing? Yes...it's true. I am immature.

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Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

9 pages in and no jokes about the misspelling of losing? Yes...it's true. I am immature.

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It is because people know that you can not edit the title.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

It is because people know that you can not edit the title.

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FFXIV: The Considerate Community.

Carry-on. Just joking. In all seriousness - decent conversation going on.

Sargatanas is extremely populated and it is a legacy server. I would go as far to say with a noticable increase of players.

My server is just as busy.

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Originally Posted by Shiken

Sargatanas is extremely populated and it is a legacy server. I would go as far to say with a noticable increase of players.

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I disagree. I see less players overall on Sargatanas.

I took a break for quite a while and came back a couple weeks ago. I was worried I wouldn't see a bunch of folks crafting in the cities and farming outside like I did a few months ago, I'm glad to see busy people all over the place doing stuff and the noises of HQ things being created (during peak hours anyhoo :). Can't wait to get home and do some exploring.

@OP to answer your question. It's not just you, but you could be exaggerating a tad?

Excalibur is busy, people are getting a little upset still in the ls about the limits on Coil and such, and not being allowed to raid more than once. But not fleeing in flocks by any-means.

Good game, will be around for a long long time, and I look forward to it (I'm rather casual).

-Tari

p.s. Not saying I don't have my fair share of gripes...just saying I look forward to it ;)

I didn't leave the game because of the current patch. Rather, I left after reading all the announcements of Yoshida on the direction of the game. The patch just gave me some minor gripes and a little relief.

(1) He can't seem to figure out that he is squandering all the potential of a Final Fantasy job system by cleaving all the potential hybrid options out of the cross class skill system, and as a result locks up the inventory system with huge cooldowns as well. It creates an overall system that doesn't even resemble a Final Fantasy game by the time end game is reached.

(2) We're regaled with a cutscene depicting a mass battle at the very start of the game and nothing like that ever happens in the game. Armies of adventurers clashing in coordinated units against an encroaching army determined to take Eorzea for itself is MMORPG material, and its something not delivered on.

(3) Continuing to give the same stuff that is available in every MMORPG like they are required features (when they're not). Battleground PvP is not a required feature of an MMORPG. What it is an example of is a dead horse that keeps getting beaten for the sake of it being there. If they'd cleaned up Blitzball and made it so you could go against other teams of players, that would have been something incredibly unique to draw people to the game.

(4) Bad end game encounter design that pits players against one another inevitably with time. Had they stuck to being more tactical and loose with combat, we wouldn't be having the kinds of elitism issues we're having right now. End game encounters lead people to attack who they perceive is the weakest link instead of working with the fact that players will have varied levels of experience and skill. They don't need to have fights that are tweaked to the utmost peaks of difficulty. They just need fights that are fun. Lockouts prevent people from bull-rushing content anyway.

Is it a bad game? No, but it squanders so much potential for the sake of following the dead horse of MMORPG design that the game is a 6/10 for me in the long run.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

We're regaled with a cutscene depicting a mass battle at the very start of the game and nothing like that ever happens in the game.

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To be fair, that's a cinematic depiction of the end of 1.0.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

(2) We're regaled with a cutscene depicting a mass battle at the very start of the game and nothing like that ever happens in the game. Armies of adventurers clashing in coordinated units against an encroaching army determined to take Eorzea for itself is MMORPG material, and its something not delivered on.

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It was delivered, before the calamity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLd-AYXaaKs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_36...22E4C3766EBA70
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZFi...22E4C3766EBA70

It's because se has sent us to the dungeons for this relic, instead of running around zerging hunts, like previous relic.

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Originally Posted by RiverTams

Is it just me or does it seem like the servers are emptier as updates go by? My fc hardly even logs on anymore even though they were all very active.

No one seems excited about the update and mordhona is a ghost town on a legacy server.

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On a legacy server that may indeed be the case, but Behemoth still seems to be quite bustling. I could see legacy players either burning out or getting frustrated by SE and leaving though... I have a couple RL coworker friends who were on Hyperion that quit a month or so ago.

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Originally Posted by Felis

It was delivered, before the calamity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLd-AYXaaKs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_36...22E4C3766EBA70
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZFi...22E4C3766EBA70

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I was thinking about this and it would have been nice if they carried on the tradition of main scenario building up to something grand with small hints and event to keep players interested. There is two patchs left though so who knows.

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

I don't understand why people get upset on a minor patch.

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My main language isnt english. Sue me?

Scratch that. Wrong reply. Phone isnt very useful on forums.

However i have to agree with a prior poster, when you reach endgame some features dont feel very FF like. It almost seems as if the game is getting further away from the FF feel.

FFXIV 2.0, in it's current state, for many people, is just a filler MMO. We play it when we have nothing better to do. As soon as a new game like "Destiny" comes out, we cancel our sub and go play the new games. If we get bored, we come back. E.g. this is a fall back MMO.

SE could have made this game great, but there decision to go with 4/8 man party sizes, the slow speed of new job releases, the way lockouts work, etc (Could go on all day) has caused many of their dedicated core fanbase to lose faith and leave. And I'd wager most of their dedicated FFXI players have left to play wildstar or gone back to FFXI.

I MAKE THINGS UP BASED ON MY OPINION.

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Originally Posted by Radaghast

I MAKE THINGS UP BASED ON MY OPINION.

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Assuming you are referring to me... I said many people, which could be as few as 4, and "I wager" as in I'd bet money on it. What I said is 100% accurate as to myself, and no fewer than 20 people I used to play this game with, "E.G. Our entire launch FC quit and has moved onto greener pastures." And in some cases, we've gone back to burnt pastures to see if they are fertile again.

Coming from FFXI, this game didn't live up to what I'd hoped it would be, and I'm sure many people feel the same as me. And now that newer games like Wildstar, Destiny, etc are launching, people are disappearing rapidly.

I come from xi as well. And while i didnt expect the same game at all, what i stumbled on seems like a dissapointment for a FF game.

We pay subs but this feels more like a f2p game with all the vanity. It has FF aesthetics but it doesnt feel very FF when you play it.

I always played the FF games because of the wide variety of jobs and all the fun and diversity they provided.

XIV calls its classes and jobs after originals from the other games but they dont really feel like it when you play them...

Maybe they should stop trying to be WoW and try to be more FF, after all, the title is FF

However i do have to peep in and say they got pretty creative with the DoL and DoH. ^^ the game still needs work though. And id like it if it headed into the direction of a more FF feel.

Sad to say that even though I'm only in a small fc of 12 people, all of us have now stopped playing xiv, with only two of us logging on once a day for gardening. Which once their grown, we will both stop too.
It's a shame that a game who's company asked us to trust they can make reborn work, have bought shame on to their brand by repeatedly slamming down the player base and ignoring anything that isn't high praise.

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Originally Posted by Zaiken

Rev Toll is definitely less people now on Sargatanas anyway. I guess people are just bored. There is not much new in 2.38. Most people got their sand already from Hunt. Ramuh, no one still bother even with i110 rings. There only Relic Weapon left, and that won't hold people for that long since the grind is so huge and boring that force you to do more old content over and over again.

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O.O I'm in Rev Toll atm and it is full of people....

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Originally Posted by RiverTams

I come from xi as well. And while i didnt expect the same game at all, what i stumbled on seems like a dissapointment for a FF game.

We pay subs but this feels more like a f2p game with all the vanity. It has FF aesthetics but it doesnt feel very FF when you play it.

I always played the FF games because of the wide variety of jobs and all the fun and diversity they provided.

XIV calls its classes and jobs after originals from the other games but they dont really feel like it when you play them...

Maybe they should stop trying to be WoW and try to be more FF, after all, the title is FF

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If you could choose a number of things to change some being conservative and a few being all get out expensive, what would start your list to make the game feel more like a FF game?

I'm curious what would restore your FF feel the most.

Perhaps not for FF feel but some things I've always wanted:

I would like to work with the overworld (terrain/quest script) and music team for a bit of my desires, I think both are doing really great and my memories of FF games have a lot to do with the sounds and locations, quirks, the journey. I might see small changes made like different chocobo pathings to be more exciting and a better network, more FATEs with unique circumstance feeling more like a quest less like a leve (remember the WoW abomination quest*, relating to that also a few more unique chains) FATEs music not starting until you start the FATE, trying to ensure that the sound of the environment isn't too disjointed (a lot of interruptions doesn't let the soul of the area shine, imo), giving monsters their sight, sound, true sight, magic, and ect detection, making them have behaviors like was done in XI/1.0, things to find not made obvious like the riddle quest, removing invisible barriers**, less teleporting more natural travel***, bunch of little stuff and in the end I know that it would only meet tastes similar to mine. . Hard to be dev but don't stop giving feedback :P (just include examples of what you want too).

*There was a quest in vanilla WoW where you would start collecting random items that were like liver, intestine, and other meaty things. At the end of the fairly long quest chain you helped create an abomination for a bad guy who sends it against a town (Alliance), and you have to stop it. Other quest in WoW where you actually do an evil dead against your main city and get negative reputation and you have to redeem yourself. These were vanilla things, WoW actually has a lot of quirky quests since then too (some too quirky imo lol). A few someone made a wiki out of lol.

**Anywhere that isn't stopping you from going off the map imo (so when they/if add swimming, take out the walls make sure there are a few ramps and call it done deal).

*** I'm not saying wait 15 mins here, 5 mins there, 50 mins to get to your destination. You can have natural fast travel - riding the boat for 30 seconds to get to an island in WoW was neat (of course it was also open world, but still neat). When going from Aleport to Umbral island, that should be a boat ride imo (a fast one, but a ride). Also not saying "no" teleporting, just less.

^^^
Above is not my only concerns or even primary, just encouragement for you to list some changes and the above being one of the things that kept me going in other MMOs even if I didn't like some larger blaring feature (bunch of little things making the "soul" of the game (soul being an imo ofc)).

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Originally Posted by RiverTams

I come from xi as well. And while i didnt expect the same game at all, what i stumbled on seems like a dissapointment for a FF game.

We pay subs but this feels more like a f2p game with all the vanity. It has FF aesthetics but it doesnt feel very FF when you play it.

I always played the FF games because of the wide variety of jobs and all the fun and diversity they provided.

XIV calls its classes and jobs after originals from the other games but they dont really feel like it when you play them...

Maybe they should stop trying to be WoW and try to be more FF, after all, the title is FF

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The classes cannot be how they are meant to be, unless you want a BRD sitting there doing confuse/toad/sleep on players in PVP and Nin would be nothing like FFXI, they'd have no images from magical attacks and be able to use almost any wep plus toss them (plus stuff like flare/flood etc.) SMN would be a GIANT mobber with a giant mp drain and cd. BLM would have no elemental wheel and spells like stop and break.

It's hard to implement this kind of stuff and find a balance, They could do things exactly like they would in a single player game but... it'd really break the balance of stuff and even if they nerfed / adjusted it... you can't make stuff the original SMN without a huge burst of dmg... just not right imo... >_>; And it'd be super unbalanced to allow certain things I think. (There's just adjustments that had to be made to make an appropriate balance for an MMO game.)

Anyways; I sorta feel like the population is low sometimes but... other times it feels really populated and I realize it's probably just me or the day itself and while I'm sure people undoubtedly quit the game or took a big break due to some patches... I think people will return to try Ninja in 2.4 and see if it's anything worth leveling/playing for again. Some will quit even with Ninja added after a bit and so on though, it's how some stuff goes. I wouldn't let it stress you too much, it happens.

Famfrit, a low population server, yesterday....had a queue line.

I highly doubt its a queue line to quit the game....

I think its fine if some of these people quit, it'll help ease the queue lines for people who actually enjoy the game and enjoy the features we currently have offered to us.

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Originally Posted by Ryios

And I'd wager most of their dedicated FFXI players have left to play wildstar or gone back to FFXI.

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Tbh, I'm actually thinking of going back to XI. There's just not much to do in XIV, especially since they out date content as fast as they release it, we're all pretty much paying for 2-3 days a week of gameplay :/ Seriously, it's kind of a huge let down that you can do everything you can possibly do in that week...on a tuesday.

I honestly don't know how people can sit here and deny the fact, XIV is losing players and quite quickly. It's fairly obvious, just by taking a look at all the populated places that are almost ghost towns now and the lack of anything on PF / hunts, compared to a few months ago.

I agree, SE could have made XIV a great game. It feels like they realized they messed up and are just trying to get as much money as possible before it dies off. Which it will happen. I can promise you, with the way SE is doing things, it'll either go f2p or die off within the next year, unless they do something.

As I've said in multiple topics, I don't get why SE went the WoW model for XIV. It's been proven in the last couple of years, that those who go that route end up killing themselves off within 1-2 years or even a few months. Remember Wildstar? Whats Wildstar? Exactly. Even Archeage seems to be going that route, after all the hype they built up about it being different (it's not). SE already has a mmo that's lasted for 11+ years (XI), so I'm not sure why they didn't base more ideas off of that. There's a reason it's lasted for so long.





>_> Now to sit back and watch the butt hurt people come in and try to argue with me, with high chances of them dragging their FC members in to attack too lol Because that's all people do on the forums when someone posts valid points or good ideas. "What's this? That guy is correct on the issue? Better attack him and bring my FC members in to help too"

@ Obysuca; not gonna even argue SE did mess up here and there, I don't agree with some of your points... like as far as I know? AA's biggest problem was the PK killings going on for anyone after lvl 30 but it was at some point you'd just be PK'd in a map that was being PvP'd on unless you're at the safety stone. Builds are a bit broken too there. (Though if I remember right some of that is similar to WoW. but maybe not? didn't really play it.)

Wildstar, I actually liked the game but.. I didn't like the map system among other things and I was already paying for this anyways. :x

I don't completely agree that the game will die next yr. But I don't think that they should base everything 100% around weekly content either. There's still time to change things...

However overall we got barely any content under the base of it all really, sure we got small little stuff here and there but nothing big like expansions or game changing contents.

Also if they based stuff around FFXI then why not play FFXI? there would be no point, they need to try to take FFXIV into a route of it's own IMO not the route of other or older games like FFXI or WoW. :x

(FFXI has had expansions out the buns by now too as well as other games so.... I can't really judge FFXIV based on the processor fairly.)

Oh and No FC members for me considering I only got a two person one. :P

Edit: Oh and some of my own thoughts are.... There's just nothing to do atm, it goes beyond personal housing. Most content has been beaten by players who did do everything, who can ex primal, who do coil, who got T9 on farm or even people whose at T9 and progressively going through it.. after raid time, there's almost nothing left to do.

Granted some people are still stuck on T5 or ex primal etc but I'd gander that some that passed that stage start to think "Now what to do next? Blank" Because that was really all that they could find left to challenge themselves with IG that they actually cared about unless they are going to Atma farm which some players don't really care for, or raid which again... not everyone cares for and the same goes for hunts so yeah...

I think subs are just evening out, just like all WoW clones cut from the same cloth like ARR is. Active subs will most likely hover around the 500k mark and go lower or maybe higher at times, regardless of how many accounts and "adventurers" there are.

Thing is most MMOs don't need millions of subscribers to stay afloat, just look at XI with their lower than 500k subscribers still getting substantial updates every month, not just every 3 months and their monthly patches have more content than ARR's somewhat monthly 2.x5 and 2.x8 patches. Legacy servers will obviously always be the most populated, because of the people playing on them since 1.0. Most people will have an attachment to their characters and the game by now and will stay around for a long while.

That core group of loyal players is what drives pretty much every MMO regardless of their age, financial model and server populations, and of course you also have the usual minor band of apologists who'll defend anything and even if a game suddenly started charging $1 per dungeon run they will call you entitled for not wanting to pay.

Whether this inevitable drop in players will be good or bad for the game will depend on how they handle it. XI has been doing great adding and tweaking a lot of features and content to what a couple of people around here would otherwise call a dead game, even Everquest is getting its 21st expansion soon. There have been very few MMOs that have completely disappeared and failed, so it's very likely ARR will still be around even with a huge drop in subscribers, for better or for worse.

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Originally Posted by Roris

just look at XI with their lower than 500k subscribers still getting substantial updates every month, not just every 3 months and their monthly patches have more content than ARR's

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Not to mention XI's content stays relevant for far longer, which is a good thing. Unlike XIV how once the next update is out, the previous content is obsolete and dead. It doesn't help that SE seems to focus on vanity content on XIV, rather than real content :/

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Originally Posted by Lillia

Oh and No FC members for me considering I only got a two person one. :P

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Well, your post wasn't bad :P Unlike most people who jump into topics and skip over what most people say, sometimes changing it, then going "You're wrong! Quit assuming stuff! Waah Waah Waah!" etc lol And my FC is down to only two of us too :/ We used to be a decent size one but the last few months have dropped us down to only 2-3 on

@Roris; I wanna hug you after reading that comment... :<

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

I honestly don't know how people can sit here and deny the fact, XIV is losing players and quite quickly. It's fairly obvious, just by taking a look at all the populated places that are almost ghost towns now and the lack of anything on PF / hunts, compared to a few months ago.

>_> Now to sit back and watch the butt hurt people come in and try to argue with me, with high chances of them dragging their FC members in to attack too lol Because that's all people do on the forums when someone posts valid points or good ideas. "What's this? That guy is correct on the issue? Better attack him and bring my FC members in to help too"

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Where are these ghost towns? O.o

Since you are being uber defensive I'll leave it with that question. But seriously, where are these ghost towns?

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Where are these ghost towns? O.o

Since you are being uber defensive I'll leave it with that question. But seriously, where are these ghost towns?

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>_> Try playing on a non-legacy server. Mor Dhona only has about 10 people in it, even during prime time hours compared to a few months ago when it was so packed, you couldn't see yourself in the crowd. I haven't seen people crafting near market boards in months and the housing wards are pretty dead empty too, maybe only 4-5 people. Also only 1-2 things on PF all day.

The lack of content is mostly to blame. Each update, you can finish the whole amount of content in the first day or two, then just grind the same dungeon for 4-5 months.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

>_> Try playing on a non-legacy server. Mor Dhona only has about 10 people in it, even during prime time hours. I haven't seen people crafting near market boards in months and the housing wards are pretty dead empty too, maybe only 4-5 people. Also only 1-2 things on PF all day.

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Exactly how long does the game need to be out before people stop trying to compare the population of legacy and non legacy servers like there is a significant difference between the two? There are non-legacy servers with more population than legacy, its a moot point.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

*snip*

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I'm myself a veteran FFXI player so I agree with your statement, on a side note I doubt anyone would be dumb enough to attack you about what you said, for sure XIV is a different game BUT both come from the same game company, they should have re-used the good ideas coming from XI in the XIV aslong it doesn't directly interract with a different battle mechanic (which leave many good things/ideas from the XI to put there).

Keep in mind FFXIV isn't dead yet, we will be able to tell that (hopefully not) when the expansion come out, FFXI only had storyline to shadow lord for about 1 year and half before CoP and zilart came to save the day, maybe it's going to be the same for XIV.

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Originally Posted by Atomnium

on a side note I doubt anyone would be dumb enough to attack you about what you said

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You'd be surprised lol I've had people attack me for very very little reason. I've even had people go so far to skip 90% of what I posted, quote a single word or two and go off assuming something completely different

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

You'd be surprised lol I've had people attack me for very very little reason. I've even had people go so far to skip 90% of what I posted, quote a single word or two and go off assuming something completely different

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I know :p I did this to poison the well, disliking hating trolls and know how to make them run away from a forum (I had a troll Master).

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

-snip-

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I understand where you are coming from and how things may seem like ghost towns compared to a month or two ago. There might be other reasons for a particular area that used to be crowded to no long seem as busy. At launch, you couldnt even get a claim on a lady bug out of the gates cause, thats where every one was at that point. Eventually people progressed and the main clump moved further and further up the ladder. When FC housing was implemented, again it looked like people were missing, but many of them were busy in the new wards and housing (those rich bastards...) or in dungeons trying to get money for a house. Now again a new housing patch dropped and while the prices are high, people have more time to get money for them and the wards are once again quite busy. Also, there is the usual ebb and flow of the player base. New content gets dropped in the major patch, people come back to check it out, play it, then drift off until the next patch. In addition, there have been some big title releases recently that will naturally draw some people away for a time (Destiny, ArchAge) as well as school starting up this month.

Now this is not a general rule or anything, just some circumstances to consider when making the claim that " the game is dying/the game is hemorrhaging players" as some people put it. As though this is some kind of fear they are using to try and validate the changes they want as some kind of savior to the games success. I am inclined to see what the census says regarding population vs subs vs active accounts. But even that is not a completely accurate look at the actual population in the game because it cannot properly take into account extenuating circumstances such as RMT or people who log in once a week for 30 min.

Personally, I see the game have its ups and downs but i don't see it dying off completely. People like to blame things on "PS limitations" but if anything it is something that would do more for keeping the game alive than to kill it in the long run. It is an almost completely untouched medium for the MMO genre and will have people playing who might not normally. I feel the game has at least drawn in a stable crowd that will be sticking around for quite some time to come. The devs have plans outlined all the way up to 4.0 at the very least, if not further by now. So barring any major disasters, like all their servers somehow being physically destroyed, I don't see the game disappearing or going free to play. And the game would be shut down before ever going free to play.

Just my 2gil.