Please Do NOT Introduce Another Melee Tank

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caraway

I'd like to hear your suggestions on how a non-melee tank would work and not be horribly, horribly broken.

An evasion tank would be nice to have (when I say evasion tank I mean like the Monk/Bruiser of EQ2 and not the Ninja of FFXI) as would a mage (damaging soaking barriers?) tank but I think they'd all still end up being melee range.

---

Wildstar has a ranged tank, Engineer, which isn't horribly broken. I'm not sure how that would translate across combat systems, but saying something is "horribly horribly broken" without the game ever having tried something close is straight up wrong.

*skips 8 pages of potentially repeated ideas*

*stares at arcanist summon 2*

if only we had more enmity pet commands and a defensive buff better than eye for an eye...

*casts protect while targeting summon* "wth"

edit: and on note of red mage, element enchants for weapons/shields/armor would work

dark knight if/when it comes will be a magic/melee tank in all likelihood

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xephenon

Wildstar has a ranged tank, Engineer, which isn't horribly broken.

---

How does it manage to stay "at range" ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by roninoftagrm

dark knight if/when it comes will be a magic/melee tank in all likelihood

---

"In all likelihood" Dark Knight will not be a tank

Melee range is unavoidable. I'm more worried about tanking styles; things have to be kept unique. We have insane mitigation in PLD, and insane HP to soak damage in WAR.
One with a parry-dodge focus who deals more in counterattacks. Samurai?
One that directly buffs defensive numbers / debuffs the mobs' offensive numbers. Mystic Knight?
One that adjusts and focuses element / damage type resistances. Blue Mage?
One that directly responds to damage dealt / taken with boosted heals / defense. Dark Knight?
Aside from those four thoughts... what else could be done to make a unique approach to tanking?

It's the "Tanks are responsible for effective positioning" that would seem to be the big roadblock to Ranged tanking.

What mechanic would allow a Tank to hold hate, do damage at a distance, and position the enemy?

Sounds like the Tank would need a persistent "Bind" mechanic, something which would prevent the target from moving and closing to melee range.

Without a position-holding trait, the melee DPS would vote to kill the Tank first, the mob second... :)

Suddenly picturing a combo skill where the bonus combo effect is a Bind (without disappearing on hit or diminishing durations on each hit)... But unless you give the tank a way to apply this to numerous enemies at once, it still defeats much of the purpose of a ranged tank. And the idea seems all but broken if it's allowed to apply to bosses. Binding Nael outside of Bahamut's Claw range? Any other tank would be relatively worthless in such fights.

why are people tossing around the idea of a range tank? The last thing we need is another "dedicated" add kiter. The problem is the balance between the two current tanks. They're so homogenized that people simply opt to the PLD since its easier to use and has a superior "oh shit!" button to the WAR. The only thing war has going for it is its dps potential to push a couple %'s in a long fight while still tanking but who needs that when you have great dps?

and where did this dmg buff for pld's come from? I find it hard to believe that an off defiance war vs. sword oath pld (both in dps specs) will do less damage even with berserk and internal release than the pld's flight or fight but feel free to prove me wrong. Personally I think they should cut the cd of unchained to match berserk and remove the pacify effect of berserk but that's just me.

This game needs another tank that can bring something new to the table and not just a "balanced" version of a previous tank, regardless of weapon. But seriously no range tanks. A mage tank would be good however since atm none of that tanks can block or parry magic.

Maybe this was already suggested, but it would be cool if the non melee tank would use like a shotgun like weapon.

Imagine pulling enemy with an equivalent of Shield Lob/Tomahawk, then use an aoe attack like Flash and Overpower, probably at spread shot looking attack.

Then you'll have your standard combo to keep aggro, and hopefully another one for dpsing, as well as defensive/Offensive CDs.

The difference would be if you're OT, you can sit back at range and dps away.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marxam

They're so homogenized that people simply opt....

---

They are not homogenized. Every play Wow? thats homogenized.

They have done a very good job of keeping the playstyle different. And giving them different abilities.

And yes Sword oath Paladins do = or more damage than a warrior out of defiance.
But warriors do more damage in defiance vs paladin in shield oath. The math is in a thread somewhere.

Probably has to do with the fact you lose wrath, and IB which are both huge for damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xephenon

Wildstar has a ranged tank, Engineer, which isn't horribly broken. I'm not sure how that would translate across combat systems, but saying something is "horribly horribly broken" without the game ever having tried something close is straight up wrong.

---

As someone who mained a Engie tank in all content in Wildstar...

It isn't a ranged tank.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

"In all likelihood" Dark Knight will not be a tank

---

See, I'm up in the air about this one. BRD shows they're willing to mix things up. DRK is also one of the few heavy armor classes that are prominently featured in FF lore, which makes it a possibility. Now, if it were just those two things on their own, then I would still be with you that DRK will not be a tank when it's introduced because Souleater (DRK's defining ability) + tanking seems odd.

HOWEVER...

Lets just say that if you pay attention to the ST story, it hints very strongly at one character being or becoming a DRK. Not quite as obvious as the NIN introduction from 2.2, but it's there and could be expanded on in 2.5 when we see the end of the Crystal Tower story line. Now, I also believe they have said they'll only be introducing 1 DPS & 1 Healer for the expansion. So if they are hinting at DRK in the near future, DRK as a healer seems like a much bigger stretch, which leaves the very real possibility that we could see DRK as a tank come the xpac.

All they said was a new tank and healer were coming with the expansion, in no way did they say that's all that was coming.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Giantbane

Lets just say that if you pay attention to the ST story, it hints very strongly at one character being or becoming a DRK.

---

The way I see it, that one character is not hinted as becoming a Dark Knight but a Warrior of Darkness. The two have nothing in common, and from both the lore of FFIII and FFXIV, Warriors Of Darkness could probably be the opposite of Warriors Of Light.

And even if they create DRK from it, that character is not really a "tank".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duelle

just adding more that hasn't been done yet

---

Evade and counter, Reverse effects, Repostes, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JakzChurchill

All they said was a new tank and healer were coming with the expansion, in no way did they say that's all that was coming.

---

I dunno, they took a year to get NIN out, the gun class is still MIA (look forward to the expansion ... or at least that's the plan until they postpone it again), and are now waffling about more than one job per class. I'm not holding out hope for much more at this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

The way I see it, that one character is not hinted as becoming a Dark Knight but a Warrior of Darkness. The two have nothing in common, and from both the lore of FFIII and FFXIV, Warriors Of Darkness could probably be the opposite of Warriors Of Light.

And even if they create DRK from it, that character is not really a "tank".

---

Ascians seem more like the Warriors of Darkness. And that character is every bit the "tank" that the WAR trainer is.

Look, I'm not saying he's definitely hinting at DRK and it WILL be a tank. I'm just saying it's plausible given what we've seen so far.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Giantbane

Ascians seem more like the Warriors of Darkness.

---

And who said they weren't created the same way ? ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Giantbane

And that character is every bit the "tank" that the WAR trainer is.

---

He has changed a lot since that fight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Giantbane

I dunno, they took a year to get NIN out, the gun class is still MIA (look forward to the expansion ... or at least that's the plan until they postpone it again), and are now waffling about more than one job per class. I'm not holding out hope for much more at this point.

---

What? New classes are almost exclusively saved for new expansions, we were lucky to get ninja like this. So far they have confirmed that with the expansion (which should most likely drop in about 6 months) a tank and healer class will be added, all i'm saying is expect a few more than that as tank and healer wasw only confirmed as an answer to a question about ninja as a DPS.

What if there was a tank that redirected damage? Spread damage on self to the whole party, or part of the party, or be able to take all the party's damage to yourself? Think of all the overhealing caused by ticking regen on parties during raids. It could instead not be wasted by sending a small amount of damage to the party. Or say the party is in trouble, party damage redirection plus cooldowns or hallowed ground equivalent skill. Could have some hilarious situations like the whm pulling aggro but the tank just redirects damage back to him instead of taking it back :D

Just make the Samurai's katana be like a large gunblade. Simple as that. Thats my opinion though lol

AP Master Yi = new tank.

It's really not a bad idea, damage/sustain tank. Kind of like WAR except lower base aggro and lower base defense. Would make it a moderately bad choice for heavy hitting raids but would be a suitable OT and efficient at non-raid clears.

Anybody forget about the fact that a Titan Egi can tank Ramu EX? Friggin Ramu.

Ranged Tank=Not bad idea.
Problem: The mechanics that would need to go behind it to making it workable as well as Balancing it to the level of Paladin and Warrior.