Abusing the Trade feature to interrupt, etc

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Originally Posted by Darki

What you are saying is that victims should not be obligated to guard themselves in any way. That someone else should do all the work for them. This is highly impractical not to mention a lot less safe than being prepared in the first place. Prevention isn't foolproof of course. But doing nothing...is far worse.

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Being prepared is always a good strategy for anything. Blaming victims for not being prepared enough is disgusting. The focus should be on stopping perpetrators, not blaming victims.

I don't believe this is an argument that I will win with you. You've shown in your other posts that you are eager to blame the victim in this case.

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Originally Posted by Waeksyn

Being prepared is always a good strategy for anything. Blaming victims for not being prepared enough is disgusting. The focus should be on stopping perpetrators, not blaming victims.

I don't believe this is an argument that I will win with you. You've shown in your other posts that you are eager to blame the victim in this case.

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And you have shown in your posts that you are eager to vilify those who do not share your naivete.
Also, I said victims who make no attempt at prevention are partly to blame, Ms. selective reading.
I didn't imply it was pretty. I implied it was reality. When you come out of your walled in garden and see the world for what it is, maybe you will come out of it a little more enlightened.

It's a two way street. Players can take the initiative and reduce the grief themselves, but it doesn't make the process any less annoying and it doesn't get the point across to the offender that what they are doing is wrong. Likewise, not reporting players who keep bothering you gives the offender the message that it is ok for them to keep harassing you because you aren't do anything about it to stop them.


People paid a subscription to play this game, ergo, they have the right to be able to play the game without other people souring the experience for them. If the GMs didn't do anything, then players would cancel their subscriptions and it will look bad on Square if word got out that they couldn't be bothered to deal with harassment or told their players that it's all on them to deal with it.


Just because you can take steps to reduce griefing doesn't mean that it should be your only solution. GMs are there to make sure that there's no grievances between players. That is their job.

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Originally Posted by Najara

Any word on if this is a bannable offense and if it's going to be fixed anytime soon? It's getting pretty old.

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Please SE.... Please stop the teletrolls!
Don't actually make any content...
Just deal with these people who wanna have fun in a game in which there's nothing to do other then cancel portblocking other newbs.

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Originally Posted by Darki

. When you come out of your walled in garden and see the world for what it is, maybe you will come out of it a little more enlightened.

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LOL!

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Originally Posted by Darki

I think you want to be trade trolled so you have an excuse to play victim. There is no other explanation.

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Nice example of enlightenment there.

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Originally Posted by Waeksyn

LOL!

Nice example of enlightenment there.

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Thank you. I enjoyed watching you debunk your own stance. Is it fun self-victimizing? Tell me, are you going to petition that SE remove the vote kick, blacklist, /busy and all the other preventive measures? Clearly you don't think they are worth much. After all why have them when the GMs should be doing 100% of the work? It would be safer that way!....oh wait.

I think there is also just a disconnect in that many people would like not to have to take measures to prevent trade interrupt. But yes, I do understand your point.

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Originally Posted by Darki

I think you want to be trade trolled so you have an excuse to play victim. There is no other explanation.
Support prevention. Not retaliation.

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Lol So i want to be a victim because i feel trolls need to be dealt with accordingly? i'm starting to think your trolling now :P

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Originally Posted by SummonerSenah

I think there is also just a disconnect in that many people would like not to have to take measures to prevent trade interrupt. But yes, I do understand your point.

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Believe me I would love it to if preventive measures were never needed. You know...now that I think about it, I just thought of a new preventive measure against trolls: friendly communication. Too bad Waeksyn has likely left the thread. Would of been nice to test it on her. In retrospect, I should of started with this idea.

Also, thank you for looking at the discussion objectively :)

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Originally Posted by Mogi

Lol So i want to be a victim because i feel trolls need to be dealt with accordingly? i'm starting to think your trolling now :P

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Late to the party? No matter, i'll catch you up to speed. Long story short, people seem to think that I was implying that GMs be taken completely out of the equation. If I gave that impression then I apologize. It is likely that people are aware of the preventive measures and I assumed people didn't want to use them. From my perspective, that is what it looked like. My stance is that both should be used. Preventive measures as a first resort, then GMs if they are needed.

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Originally Posted by Darki

those that are trolled have more power to stop it then they realize. Why not use it?

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You answered your own question. If somebody doesn't know that /busy or /blist <t> will help, they essentially can't use it to prevent trade harassment.

I like both methods too, but I think that mpk via trade-spam is more reprehensible than ignorance of features. Punish the trolls, educate the player. Add a third to the mix, too: improve the system where possible. It's our one advantage over the physical world! :D

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Originally Posted by Waeksyn

Being prepared is always a good strategy for anything. Blaming victims for not being prepared enough is disgusting. The focus should be on stopping perpetrators, not blaming victims.

I don't believe this is an argument that I will win with you. You've shown in your other posts that you are eager to blame the victim in this case.

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What's disgusting is you comparing a small problem in a video game to something that is horrible to blow your point out of proportion. Don't use rape victims as an example for something as stupid as trading. I really cannot take you seriously because of how you put that.

It seems like it needs to be pointed out that GM's are there for anything you might have problems or concerns with. Preventative measures also mean little in the context of reports. Like other games, the fact there is a profanity filter does not mean you can't be reported and actioned for using those words in a public context. If someone is going to go out of their way to repeatedly open trade while you are doing anything else, they know what they are doing. I hope they enjoy their well earned vacations.

I can't honestly say that I understand the people saying "just /busy or suck it up and ignore the trade spam trolls. Don't contact the GMs.". Sticking your head in the sand and pretending there's nothing wrong generally doesn't make a issue like this go away. If it does it only diverts it to someone else who's innocent and unaware and they'll suffer instead of you.

I can agree with not reacting to trolls directly. Don't call them out on it in /say, but it's beneficial to yourself and others to report them to GMs. If they continue to do it after being warned to stop or suspended then hopefully they'll get a permeant ban or something. Another benefit to reporting is that the devs might create a way to prevent it in the future so that no one has to worry about it in the first place. It's not going to be fixed if it's not reported, and if it's rarely ever reported it may take much longer to be fixed.

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Originally Posted by Darki

If you own a car, you have to expect that some idiot might ram into you on the road and damage it. So you buy insurance.

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You are only required to carry liability insurance. If 'some idiot' rams into you and he doesn't have insurance, you get screwed financially, but he gets to deal with the cops.

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If you own a house, you have to expect that someone might break into it. So you get a security system.

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I'd say security systems are actually rather rare. Home-owner's insurance is the only safeguard most people have, and, regardless of what precautions you choose to take, (unless there are regions where this differs) someone that comes on to your property and takes your stuff is still criminally liable.

So, not the best examples since the examples of 'prevention' given don't preclude punishment of the offender.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

I never said it was ok. I said (in the post you quoted, no less) that people are inflating the issue.

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Saying that it shouldn't be punishable is the same as saying it's ok.

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Originally Posted by Darki

Most likely the trade spammers (or whatever you want to call them,) are just stupid teenagers tiring to get a rise out of others.
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If SE was as ban-happy as the latter half of this topic is, there would be no subscribers and thus no game.

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Well, there would at least be a lot fewer griefers amongst the subscribers, which would make it a much better game for everyone else. This sounds as though you think the griefers are a majority of the playerbase, which they're certainly not. Excluding a tiny number of griefers and so making the game better for all the (far more numerous) legitimate players would only help the game as a whole.

I agree that it's mostly just stupid teenagers trying to get a rise out of others, but those teenagers need to be excluded from a few games so they learn just how stupid it is to give up a chance at a game for something as worthless as getting a rise out of someone. Trying to ruin other people's gameplay is not itself a valid form of gameplay and nobody who doesn't know that should be allowed in multi-player games.

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Originally Posted by YmirEsc

/busy is part of the game for a reason- so nobody can bother you.

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It's there so that your friends know that now isn't a good time to bother you with things you'd normally welcome any other time. It's not there to indicate you don't want to be griefed right now. That would imply that normally you (and everyone else) does want to be griefed, or at least that such greifing is acceptable and appropriate.

It's fine to suggest using /busy to block a persistent griefer while you report them to the GMs, but doing so is not a substitute for punishing the offender, because it doesn't accomplish that.

over a year later, why is this still a thing?

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Originally Posted by axenred

over a year later, why is this still a thing?

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I would also like this fixed, I had an incident like this a few months back where two trolls made me miss an hour long mining node because they were trade spamming me. I reported it to a GM, I got a reply saying they would deal with it, but I never found out what happened (as they arent at liberty to discuss)

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Originally Posted by Markas

The simple fact that you're teleporting should be enough that trades aren't allowed. Just this morning someone ran from across the Aftcastle just to trade me as I was teleporting.

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wow ok, i never heard of anything like that, before.
seems like a good way to test if someone is a bot, though.

I actually have another question about this abuse. Why does trading interrupt teleport to begin with?

In other games teleporting isn't interrupted by trading. It is by combat. Not by trading.

Heck there's a reason why in wow there's a glyph for Bubble-Earth combo, but even without that the only thing that interrupts you is the combat.

Just thinking that maybe we should get some fixing about these multi-tasking things (like why am I unable to dye while I'm sit down, or while I can't queue with the chocobo out)

It's a minor thing, but I thought that this trade abuse thing is just weird on its own.

HOLY CRAP NECRO, why bring this old thread up. >.<;

Moral of the story.

Tell them stop then just /busy or blacklist them and move on.

/thread and lock this

omg you guys...really? why are you getting so bent out of shape over troll? and to go so far as to ban these people for it clearly you have too much time on your hands /busy teleport then/busy again to take it off boom done. Yes it makes you laugh when you do once to another person or several (friend that was trying to run away from hug emote lol) but if you keep bothering the GM over something stupid like this they might just turn around and ban you for bothering them making them waste their time tracking down some guy that opened trade while mid teleport when they could be helping someone that got they're money/account taken by hacker. Now caster trying to survive by using a healing spell before mob gets closer to them during leve that's a different story then they are just being arseholes.

I just interrupted someones teleport last night after killing an S rank. Log into forums today and see this thread in full swing again. Maybe it's a sign. W/E, no remorse felt!!! But yeah, I also +1 that trades should not be initiated on players involved in combat, teleportation, or any duty with a timer (maps/fates etc)

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Originally Posted by axenred

over a year later, why is this still a thing?

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Considering that this happened to Yoshi P when he was in Tonberry, I'm surprise that they haven't tried changing it.

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Originally Posted by Verranicus

Come back after people use the exploit to get you killed or fuck you up while doing something important.

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My question is, how you get away with this word, but I get suspended for a few days for masking it by only using asteriks?

Honestly I don't see the harm with trade interrupts, I mean if someone's done it to you over three times in a row then yeah it just becomes annoying, but you can just set yourself to Busy status. You can't help some people amusing themselves.

It adds a bit more to the way we can interact at least. In DCUO (forgive me for the reference to this...ahem...'game') you have a Trinket that could turn you into a Gorilla and throw barrels at people, which would actually knock people around, send them flying or a way to push people who are AFK into another area. Just engage in general jappery.

Look, there should be a punishment for trade interruptions, but a permanent ban is far to harsh. That's like... me getting the death penalty for poking my sister and not stopping when she cries, "Quit touching me".

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

My question is, how you get away with this word, but I get suspended for a few days for masking it by only using asteriks?

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Someone reported you, no one reported him

The point is it should be an easy quality of life fix. And its still not done.

While there are workarounds with Busy, I would like to offer a different point of view.

As someone who was bullied a lot in school, having teleports interrupted multiple times in a row give very, VERY uncomfortable flashbacks to feelings of being unable to escape someone who wishes you harm.

A single interrupt just to be teasing? I'll shrug it off. Having someone effectively lock me down (I didn't KNOW Busy would stop trades and let me teleport in peace) made me log out of the game and not come back for three hours thanks to a panic attack.

If you weren't bullied in school, or if this doesn't affect you, good for you. For others it brings up very bad memories, so please keep that in mind. Having trade not stop a teleport does nothing to make your experience in the game any worse - unless you're the kind of person who only has fun by taking away fun from others, I guess.