Scrap the marketplace system please

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JayRising

.........I think a good portion of the community does not how to play the market properly which results in this mess of a market we have now....

---

This is evident by some of the ridiculous prices people charge for lower tier items. If you are going to sell HQ Fish Glue for 2000k each, I will sell a stack of five for 1995 just because. Is that undercutting? Yes. Do I feel bad about it? Not , even, a little. Just because I have the ability to control certain areas of the MB doesn't mean I'll try and hold it hostage.

That mentality is probably bad for my bottom line at times, but I think I do okay so meh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sonofbaldo

All they have to do is make the current prices invisible and problem solved.

---

No, people will charge millions of gil for an easily obtainable item because they are greedy. Like the Fat Cat, 6.5 million gil on Tonberry >.>.

I really don't get the whole "crafted gear is worthless because dungeon drops are better" perspective.

a) every single piece of crafted gear I place on the MB sells within two days, at at least 200% (sometimes stupidly higher) of the cost of the materials - that's anything from iLv 1-50. HQ mind, but if you aren't HQing your crafts you're doing it wrong (or mass-producing for desynth^).

b) I can understand why because ppl would rather use second-rate crafted gear whilst levelling so they can spiritbond it while they level and make a decent profit. If you think you need to use BiS dungeon drops from level 1-50, you probably need to address your playstyle before you worry about the injustice of the economy.

c) even post-50, players will rather use cheap crafted gear to spiritbond for materia either for gil or for their Novus when doing non-challenging activities like... well pretty much everything that's not in the last tier of the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sonofbaldo

All they have to do is make the current prices invisible and problem solved.

---

Definitely not! This is a free market; everyone is free to sell for what they see it fits their revenue. Even I see players charge beans for crafted items (probably leveling up), but it’s up to them to do so, I need to take it as a trader/crafter.

Seeing prices also help you to seek opportunity to Gather/Craft items that bring you profit.

In case you meant to see the price when the listing is selected, it will be more annoying IMO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bikpik

I think the current system is fine, the only change I'd make is to take out the sale history , so people couldn't see what others paid.

---

Definitely not! History trends will show you the real thing, on Faerie a rich player wanted to level up leatherworks, he/she bought Aldagoat skin.. all that was listed for 35 gil up to 600 gil, and only leaving the +1k gil listings on MB. Checking History will indicate that:

1. its a Single buyer, probably leveling up.
2. No real demand, since all the listings were bought from a single person.
3. Know that the 'now' price of +1k gil for Aldagoat skin is not the average (on the long run).

Just to mention; some marketplaces (GaiaOnline in my example), has a Graph for monthly & yearly prices of the items sold! and you're asking to remove last 20 hits?!

Bottom line: No Hidden Buyer names / No Hidden Prices / No Removal of History or Sale time/date

TBH, FFXI-AH will not solve any problem we usually hear in ARR, If someone will have very hard time with ARR MB,
most likely this person on FFXI-AH will not know he had been undercuttered and he had over-bidded, and frequently. ^^;

Moreover, FFXI-AH wastes a lot of time to test the lowest price, and it is easy to input wrong bid, for example, add one or some more zeros, to bid an item and ofcoz, you won the bid immediately. Even I think it is buyer own responsibility but many players will still call GM requesting for 1time restore... ^^;

Another story, in FF11 one day i bidded a belt for 25K while last sold 50K (for exmaple), then I went to level up party, and then 2 strangers popped and kept following me and asking for refund. This was one of my worst FF11 experience^^;

Personally, the only way that I have learned to play the marketplace is to ply against the one thing that does NOT have an unlimited supply: Time. Items that take time to gather and craft are going to be worth more than items you can collect instantly. This is why unspoiled node items in regular demand like clusters sell, and why Demimateria sells well. people do not want to spend their time getting it, so they buy it.

I have made a mil plus in the past 24 hours, just for 8 hours of mindless mass producing and desynthing for demimateria. anyone can do that, but a lot of people don't have 8 hours to mindlessly grind a single button (actually two, but is a directional really a button?). I have a better attention span than average, which gives me an advantage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nutz

Also there were listing fees and items expired after a week, so if you listed something very expensive and it didn't sell you'd be out a decent chunk of gil for nothing.

---

So wouldn't a list fee stop people from 1 gil undercutting and possibly stop people from putting expensive items up for absurd amounts (for example as a means of storing things they don't have room for). This sounds like a decent implementation. The 1 gil undercutting is quite idiotic and just encourages people to market board camp.

I'm surprised they haven't allowed you to place offers for particular items. Seeing that an item is in demand doesn't really help the seller if the price the customer is willing to pay is too low for you. Couldn't you have your retainer buy out certain items as they are put up on the board similar to how the retainer sells your items?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart

No it doesn't.

Crafted gear is meldable.

The best gear is crafted+meld.

Free markets work better overall to move gil around, Sorry that you can't be a gilhorder in ff14, tough luck.

---

Even if crafted gear were better than raid tier (which I'm pretty sure it isn't) it's not worth the absurd cost to get those over melds on ever piece. Tome gear is as good for significantly less.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sibyll

So wouldn't a list fee stop people from 1 gil undercutting and possibly stop people from putting expensive items up for absurd amounts (for example as a means of storing things they don't have room for). This sounds like a decent implementation. The 1 gil undercutting is quite idiotic and just encourages people to market board camp...snip.....

---

Not for me personally. I'll just absorb the margin.

I'm leveling all my crafters at once and my highest is 36. I have to sell crap :(. That's just the way it is. My bread and butter right now is selling triple turn in leve items and miscellaneous HQs. I have to push quantity most of the time. The way I'm pushing product is very similar to an assembly line.

Which is why I need top paged and check the market board as soon as I log on and as soon as I log off. I buy and resell a lot on certain days, and try to gear my production towards items I can use myself worst case scenario.

I almost always undercut by 1 gil. That's respectful to me. Because of threads like this, I started to undercut by 5-10 and even 100 gil because people for some reason seem to be offended by the "1 gil undercut of douchery" (which makes zero sense to me).

I'll go back and forth all day with a product I want to push out of my extremely limited inventory space. When I lose the battle I'll either: buy and resell/take my product off for storage or use/tip my hat, bow in respect, and say to you "Well played kind sir/madam....but I'll be back". ;)

This is business. Unadulterated, mindless, brain numbing, number crunching business. This is common in any economy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stihllodeing

snip

---

Undercutting by amounts that are insignificant compared to the cost of the item (ex: 500>499, or 150,000> 149,900) doesn't benefit the buyer in any way. It only benefits people that camp market boards. A simple non-refundable listing fee, based on the post price, would at least discourage this behavior.

Also I don't know what to tell you. Whenever one can level everything to 50 and gatherers get their own person nodes you are going to have a massive surplus. Unspoiled nodes are better designed in this sense because you can't mass farm them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sibyll

Undercutting by amounts that are insignificant compared to the cost of the item (ex: 500>499, or 150,000> 149,900) doesn't benefit the buyer in any way. It only benefits people that camp market boards. A simple non-refundable listing fee, based on the post price, would at least discourage this behavior...snip....

---

That's true if the behavior is immediate and temporary. If it's a lasting trend, it very well does benefit the buyer ie (50,000-->49,0000-->47,500-->45,000-->40,000-->etc). Imo, adding a relisting fee to an economy that's already established trends and behaviors will do one of two things:

1) Encourage inflation to absorb costs.

2) Exaggerate undercutting to try and avoid relisting fees.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, just not sure if it's the right fit at this point in time. I'll admit though, I might be ignorant because I've never played an mmo that incorporated a relisting fee after the fact.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sibyll

....snip....Also I don't know what to tell you. Whenever one can level everything to 50 and gatherers get their own person nodes you are going to have a massive surplus. Unspoiled nodes are better designed in this sense because you can't mass farm them.

---

I get that and was aware when going in. ;) Like I said, I'm just trying to be responsible about it. I have 3 retainers at the moment, all are 6-7 pages full, and I try to keep between 10-20 items on the market at all times on each retainer. I seem to be doing well, and hope to be back down to 2 retainers soon.

I feel like one of those "super blow out stores" right now though. "You wants Aldgoat Leathers!!? I GOTS ALDOGOAT LEATHER! You want HQ Yew Logs!?? I HAS MILLIONS OF YEW LOGS!! \o/ Now you just come down and see Ol' Stihl, I am OVERLOADED with inventory and these deals won't last long!!!":cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stihllodeing

That's true if the behavior is immediate and temporary. If it's a lasting trend, it very well does benefit the buyer ie (50,000-->49,0000-->47,500-->45,000-->40,000-->etc). Imo, adding a relisting fee to an economy that's already established trends and behaviors will do one of two things

---

When I get 1 gil undercut I undercut them for a good percentage of the cost (ex: 500>499>450, or 150,000>149,999>140,000) because I don't have time to dance around relisting ten thousand times. I'd like to get the maximum amount of profit I can get for my item, but I don't see the point in spending hours to go from 250k to 150k in 1 gil increments when I could get there in 10 mins in 10k gil increments.

That being said, I could see list fees back firing and hurting poor sellers at the expense of rich sellers. The point though is to discourage people from relisting items repeatedly. When the relist fee is non-existent there is nothing really stopping you from doing it other the amount of MB camping you are willing to do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sibyll

...snip... but I don't see the point in spending hours to go from 250k to 150k in 1 gil increments when I could get there in 10 mins in 10k gil increments...snip...

---

Neither do I. It takes no time at all. I think people are mistaking diligence for time sink. There is far more discipline than time sink involved when keeping your prices current. I get what you're saying, I really do, but your statement is a bit of an exaggeration. It does NOT take hours, only minutes...if that.

And also, I look forward to doing business with you and those of this mindset :) I will target your retainers and product to intentionally try and drive your price down, especially if we are competing over a product that moves well. I will then buy it and resell, or at least take the risk to do so.

It's nothing personal, just business. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. It's all par for the course in free market economies.

the ffxi market system was backwards and obnoxious, you crazy

please stop trying to make ffxiv bad so it can be more 'hardcore'

The only good "not-a-pure-AH" system in an MMO is the one in EverQuest II has. You can just buy stuff off the Consignment Market straight-up and pay the fee, or you can actually head out to the player's residence and buy it there without the fee.

This wouldn't fix the OP's problem, but that's because the real problem is the OP.

I always find it remarkable how people like the OP are publicly willing to state that they want SqEx to remove competition from the market, remove customer's ability to price out items and look for a better price, and demand that no seller be allowed to sell an item unless they get to sell theirs first.

These threads are without a doubt the most entertaining and enlightening (some people's true nature) that I know of.

I'd actually like a feature outside of AH.There are games (most of them are old) were no AH. It was literally a market place where sellers actually compete for space to park down a stall within a designated area. It gave such great immersion IMO; not just click and buy from a list. In fact, some have "market boards" that only actually gave you tickets to go to player housing to buy it.

I play on Hyperion which is extremely crowded and the system is fine. Sure, I get undercut, but my stuff still sells anyway.

If I decide to ignore the market for a week, I come back to find several million gil waiting for me. It'll sell. Just don't be impatient and you'll get your money.

how about allowing us to see how much the item has been selling for in the past month???

how about allowing a retainer to sell more then 20 things???

how about forcing people to see the sale history of a item before they post a item up themselves at whatever price they want

Please use the edit button to add-on to your post without having to post multiple times. The 100 character limit, though annoying, can be worked around this way.

And several months later, my server's Water Cluster market has fallen back into its original pricing from when I started. The only time your item gets undercut severely to the point it will never sell is when the demand drops to "unneeded." The Grade 1 Glamour Prism Market has currently dropped as most people have already glamoured the items they wish to glamour and/or crafters have caught eye on a currently "active" market. Eventually, the market will bounce back up to its static pricing unless new crafters entering the market stay in the market or a demand increases.

There is nothing wrong with the marketboard currently. It's just people want unreasonable things at unreasonable times. You need to understand supply, demand and trends when you want to deal with market boards. This is why those ahead of the game in the crafting department yield more gil per patch day vs. those who start entering the market afterwards because the demand was fulfilled before late-comers

Are you guys blind?? the market system in this game sux, and before u say oh stop changing the price i dont change my prince i leave it until it sell but is so stupid that people that have alot more time to gather items will have their items sell faster than the people that put it their and waiting to sell..... SE need to fix this market, how it works right now is just not good

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oriana

Are you guys blind?? the market system in this game sux, and before u say oh stop changing the price i dont change my prince i leave it until it sell but is so stupid that people that have alot more time to gather items will have their items sell faster than the people that put it their and waiting to sell..... SE need to fix this market, how it works right now is just not good

---

...what?

like, a spelling and grammar check would be amazing. I had to read your post almost 10 times to get even a general idea of what you were saying, and, based on what I think you said, I might be reading this wrong.

you are complaining because people who gather more, and price more competitively are selling before you, who priced and left it afk, are? its a market, not a "gimme gil free" object. you have to play to get paid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tocsin

...what?

like, a spelling and grammar check would be amazing. I had to read your post almost 10 times to get even a general idea of what you were saying, and, based on what I think you said, I might be reading this wrong.

you are complaining because people who gather more, and price more competitively are selling before you, who priced and left it afk, are? its a market, not a "gimme gil free" object. you have to play to get paid.

---

Exactly. I am new to the Market Board system and I have no issues selling anything.
I remember back when Everquest first started we had to sit in the tunnel and /shout for hours to get something bought/sold. Then, when it seemed a deal may go through, you ran a huge risk of someone trying to steal your stuff lol
Modern auction architecture is heaven compared to that. . . although the Tunnel did have a great social aspect.