Suggestion, make light party content tank/dps/healer/support

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Originally Posted by Kaela

Bard is cut and dry. I will admit. Keep up straight shot buff on yourself. Apply dots, use bloodletter and misery's end when up. When nothing else use Heavy Shot. But you are still ignoring the fact that they have 100% up time on an enemy in most fights. Ontop of Aoe for larger pulls. They can give Foe's Requiem for extra damage for others. So they supply support and a large amount of dps on their own.

If you ignore this and everything else everyone says. Then it is your problem not ours.

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That wasn't what I posted. I doesn't matter how you play bard, every other dps (I'm talking about players with skill, which maximize damage uptime on the boss) will out dps bard. Other classes also give dps boosts to others (and even themselves at the same time) but this appears to always be ignored (e.g. disembowel, dragon kick, storm's eye all of which can be kept on the boss 100% of the time, unlike foe's requiem). Every other class (excluding monk) has both lower costing aoe's and higher potency aoes (at the same time). Not to mention that damage per potency is lower on bard than every other class (due to weapon damage difference).

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Still waiting to find the post where you quote me saying scholar isn't a good as white mage. But reading comprehension is a lost art.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Healer: Cnj, Whm
DPS: Arc, Acn, Smn, Thm, Blm, Pgl, Mnk, Lnc, Drg
Support: Bard, Scholar

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Oh look, it's in the OP. Do you seriously lack comprehension enough to not understand that when you say only WHM is in the healer category and you declare SCH as some kind of hybrid that you're saying it's not as good a healer as WHM?

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Still waiting to find the post where you quote me saying scholar isn't a good as white mage. But reading comprehension is a lost art.

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I wasn't aware you were waiting for me to quote you. You contradicted what you're saying now a few times.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Along with a weaker heals than the pure healing class whm.

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Is one example. Saying that SCH has 'weaker heals'. Which is a fallacy. Lustrate would definitely like to have a word with you.

Look OP, it doesn't matter what you think about SCH/Bard being 'support' and everyone else telling you 'nah'. Still, even if they were true support roles, your system as you created it would still create more problems, and make LONGER queue times.

Here's why:

First off: It looks like you are also suggesting they readjust party size to 5 and 10. Well that will affect game balance. That is a big problem for the developers who wrote the game around 4/8 man parties.

Secondly: Even if they do this, but still only do 4/8 man queues. NOW you're forcing every party to have:
PLD or WAR
WHM(CNJ)
One of 4 DD's
SCH or BRD

This means you need a White Mage (or CNJ pre 30) in every party. Every single thing you do in game. Everything. SE made Scholar as a second healer type for a reason. They knew that with the current party system, there weren't enough healers with only WHM/CNJ. Heck, it's why you get a unicorn for leveling CNJ to 30....because they knew, pre level 30, CNJ is the only native healer for those instances. Sure a SCH or WHM can level sync down, but pre level 30, CNJ IS the only healer. And this is why, even now if you look, 80% of the time the queues for lower level content (Guilheists and dungeons) the 'player in need' role is NOT tank, but Healer.

So now, instead of waiting on tanks endgame, and healers low-level....everyone is waiting on White Mages....forever.


Also, You now lumped ALL 4 remaining DD's in the same queue for one slot. (only bard gets lucky with it's only competition being against SCHs) Technically, the system SE has now is better. As, when they long ago explained it the current system works something like this:

It matches 1 Tank/1 healer, and then tries to match 1 Ranged DD (BLM/SMN/BRD) and 1 Melee DD (DRG/MNK). If however, there is not a Melee DD queued, then it will double-down on Ranged (or vise versa if more melee are queued). Also, there is some metric that tries to keep '1 of each job' whenever possible, but obviously again, queue times etc can make it so you get 2 whms/2wars/2smns/2bards in your CT party....but the system tries to at first give you an even mix. You can see this in play when queueing for CT. My queues on SMN took 2-3 times longer than my queues on DRG....heck, sometimes my DRG queues were more instant than healer queues.

But in no way shape or form will 'just changing' the party role compositions= faster queues. And re-writing every single battle to allow for balanced 5 man/10 man play is costly, time consuming and simply not going to happen.


What COULD be asked for, is some 'DD only instances' or even 'class specific dungeon challenges' So make a Ranged Dungeon where it can only be queued by Ranged ppl....or Caster Dungeons....or Tank and Spank (literally).... you get the idea. At least then, you could have 4 DD's in one instance instead of 2.


OH and as always, nothing is stopping you from grabbing 3 other people and queuing however you darn well please AND skip the queue lines....or you know, you could play one of the need roles (farming tomes is farming tomes doesn't matter what job you farm them on)

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

Oh look, it's in the OP. Do you seriously lack comprehension enough to not understand that when you say only WHM is in the healer category and you declare SCH as some kind of hybrid that you're saying it's not as good a healer as WHM?

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Still waiting for the quote

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

I wasn't aware you were waiting for me to quote you. You contradicted what you're saying now a few times.



Is one example. Saying that SCH has 'weaker heals'. Which is a fallacy. Lustrate would definitely like to have a word with you.

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Quote the whole paragraph. Don't take a sentence out of context.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Quote the whole paragraph. Don't take a sentence out of context.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Yes, I'm aware that this only leaves one healer job, but when the next wave of new classes and jobs come along, maybe this opens an opportunity for a melee type healer (like a medic class). It just occurs to me that scholars have the most support abilities out of most classes. It has the fairy aoe haste, fairy aoe damage reduction, fairy aoe regen, fairy aoe heal buff, several shielding skills, several mitigation skills, etc... Along with a weaker heals than the pure healing class whm. While bard has the aoe tp regen, aoe, mp regen, aoe resistance debuff, it used to have an aoe damage reducation, etc... along with weaker damage than a pure dps class. This is a perfect balance and as long as they add another healing class to prevent healer throttling, this should work out fine, where people will choose whether they want the support healer or the support dps. Of course premade groups will be completely unaffected so you have no worries for the content we currently have.

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My point still stands. Regardless, nobody agrees with you so obviously SE would never agree to such a bad idea; so this topic is moot.

OP just can't handle that his idea is absolutely terrible.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Still waiting for the quote

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Convinced you're just a bad troll now.

Support class IS coming, but it's not here yet. Bard is just more of supporting DPS, not Support. Support would be something like a time mage that could haste the entire party or such. Rumors abound of gun class having a chemist job that works like support. Won't know till it happens.

This idea will, in a way, happen, but not yet.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Still waiting for the quote

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Healer: Cnj, Whm
DPS: Arc, Acn, Smn, Thm, Blm, Pgl, Mnk, Lnc, Drg
Support: Bard, Scholar

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Let this thread die.

I think the OP has a good idea. But I don't think SCH is a subpar healer, I do think they have more abilities that could be labeled as support: Sacred Soil, Fairy buffs. Compared to WHMs nothing. But the fact is that this isn't going to happen unless they add many more classes to the game and have difficulty not repeating class mechanics, and make significant changes to the way the game is tuned.

You SCH need to relax though, he's not saying SCH are bad or anything, just that they're more versatile then WHMs, you should take it as a compliment. WHMs can heal and DPS a bit, you can Heal, Heal while DPSing, Prevent damage, Reduce damage and buff the raid.

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Originally Posted by Darus

Support class IS coming, but it's not here yet. Bard is just more of supporting DPS, not Support. Support would be something like a time mage that could haste the entire party or such. Rumors abound of gun class having a chemist job that works like support. Won't know till it happens.

This idea will, in a way, happen, but not yet.

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Until they rework the basis of party combat a support class is very far off. At the moment it is improbable.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

/snip

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What ive heard in DF parties, never know whos serious. Also sarcasm comes from the way it's spoken ^^

Aside from everything else everyone's said, what support does is boost others' abilities, therefore boosting both tank and dps output, so there's absolutely no reason they couldn't fit the equivalent of a full-fledged dps and therefore not need their own (horribly crowded) queue.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

Oh look, it's in the OP. Do you seriously lack comprehension enough to not understand that when you say only WHM is in the healer category and you declare SCH as some kind of hybrid that you're saying it's not as good a healer as WHM?

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I guess you want to quote what you want, but still waiting...

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Originally Posted by Darus

Support class IS coming, but it's not here yet. Bard is just more of supporting DPS, not Support. Support would be something like a time mage that could haste the entire party or such. Rumors abound of gun class having a chemist job that works like support. Won't know till it happens.

This idea will, in a way, happen, but not yet.

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Scholar already has the ability to do this.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

I guess you want to quote what you want, but still waiting...

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I just thought I should inform you that most people reading this thread face palm at every post you make.

TANK / HEALZ / DPS / DPS / SUPPORT

period lol


class would have to also be support as job for below 30 content OR

just make it so only 30+ dungeons can have "SUPPORT" as in the JOB. Also increase difficulty slightly and also implement the "ex dungeons"

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Scholar already has the ability to do this.

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It's nice that the SCH can support BUT it's main purpose is to heal and the healer slot is quite scarce (while support is not really needed right now).
Your proposition will create a bottleneck, which is nice for playing guitar but not for playing MMORPG.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

I guess you want to quote what you want, but still waiting...

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This has me curious as to what you are waiting for exactly.

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Originally Posted by Darus

This idea will, in a way, happen, but not yet.

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Very much doubt there will be a pure support class as that would go against the design of being able to solo on all jobs. Also pure support outside of large size parties is a waste of a slot. You are better off taking a pure DPS over a pure support as in small party that support would not outweigh the benefits of a pure DPS over making the support OP and thus impossible to do without, which goes against the design again.

Rift dungeons are 5 man, they have 1 slot for pure support, differnce in going 1 tank, 1 heal 2 DPS +1 support is huge in comparison to replacing the support with a DD. In favor of 3 DD.

As far as the OP, I think SE plans to do something similar to this once they implement hybrid classes, and have more than bard that would fall into that category. The reason everything is a group of 4 is that they want to do one of each roll for 4-man groups, and 2 of each for 8 mans.

The only reason I don't like the idea of adding a hybrid role is that it adds restrictions to how groups form, and will make queue time longer for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

I just thought I should inform you that most people reading this thread face palm at every post you make.

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Yeppers, but it is quite entertaining

My fairy can solo heal most dungeons, wtf is OP going on about.