The future of Thief and Ninja (minor 2.2 spoilers)

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Originally Posted by Malrend

Well FFXI was the first.. In the sense that it had an actual aggro/enmity system, which isn't really something that is part of turn-based combat systems.
However, in the Tactics/Ivalice Alliance games, Thieves tend to be among the few who can inflict Confusion and Charm status, both of which are probably the closest to aggro management you can find in turn-based combat.
And a large amount of FF fans will loathe me for mentioning this, but the same thing was possible in FFX-2, and in that same game they could also inflict Berserk on enemies and allies.

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Charm and Confusion are more like control abilities then they are aggro dumps, kinda like sleep or if you go the WoW way, Sap. I would even say Berserk is also a control ability. I dont see SE adding those here, i see a straight aggro dumb for Thief's, kinda like WoW's rogue Vanish or Feint abilities.

Its possible they add a ability that transfers threat like you said, something like Misdirect, but i would really hate it if they go that way.

In an MMO setting they would be considered "soft" crowd control, I agree.
However, when considering the games that they originate from aren't MMOs, that type of trickery would fit the standard FF Thief archetype.

Thief is a support job, in all seriousness. Steal has been stretched to cover everything from gil, to items, to buffs, to inflicting debuffs, to stealing stats, to stealing enmity.
We could see Sneak Attack, Trick Attack come back from FFXI. We might see Thief cause physical debuffs, maybe increase physical vulnerability. It's possible that we'd see Thief steal stats like Strength.
Honestly, I see Ninja being similar, but aimed toward magic debuffs. Both burst damage, both evasive, both not really able to take a hit.
Really, though, Pugilist was set up to be a thief-type, as I recall. It's still possible that it will be.

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Originally Posted by Wadoka

I don't know the history behind the "Ninja" as it exists in FF games - I started playing with FF7; played 8 and 9; and played 13.

But the idea of someone called a "Ninja" being put in a stand-up Tank role is just... wrong.

They ought to be single-target Glass Cannons; extremely-powerful single-target DD, attacking from behind, attacking from "concealement"; applying powerful debuffs - debilitating debuffs like Poison, Hamstring, Shoestring (Shoestring? Yeah... tied your shoelaces together while you weren't looking...)

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My idea was that it would be a support-type DPS with status effect attacks, as Ninjas have been known to have. I have yet to see a class with paralysis as a status effect from an attack. Ideally they should have access to:

Paralysis
Sleep
Poison
Confuse
Charm
Petrify
Imp
Bleed
Bind
Slow
Heavy
Windburn
Electrocute
Burn
Fear

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Originally Posted by Legendlives

Just like any other tank in any other game. The only difference was that they were range.

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In any other game, monsters frequently come at close range to fight. So basically, it's a rifle tank who fight at close range ? :p

It kinda kills the benefit of long ranged weapons, no ?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

In any other game, monsters frequently come at close range to fight. So basically, it's a rifle tank who fight at close range ? :p

It kinda kills the benefit of long ranged weapons, no ?

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Briefly looking up what Star Wars: The Old Republic's so-called 'ranged tank' was, and it turns out it's nothing. It's apparently a Bounty Hunter using ranged weapons so that they use their ranged weapon skills, which have no minimum distance, and are able to move a bit more freely.
Like if a Bard could actually take hits or something.

Thief class and Ninja job confirmed !
Who could have guessed ?!

Little twist on the Thief : They decided to rename it "Rogue" for lore purpose, because no city would decently allow a "Thieve's guild" to grow in town.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Thief class and Ninja job confirmed !
Who could have guessed ?!

Little twist on the Thief : They decided to rename it "Rogue" for lore purpose, because no city would decently allow a "Thieve's guild" to grow in town.

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Rogue Class, Ninja job. They said a tank will come with the actual expansion. A Thief job could still be a possibility but just wasn't ready for release yet. Either that or Musketeer will be a tank/have a tank job.

It's similar to how no town would allow a Black Mage's guild because that's a forbidden magic.

They said more information will come with Fanfest.

They said nothing about "Thief not ready for release".
They said "Rogue is a Thief, but since each class need to fit in the lore and have an official guild, the thieves have evolved into Rogues"

As for another tank, they didn't mention the gun-using class so maybe we'll have a tank from an existing classes, like Lancer or Pugilist. A mage tank could be something really refreshing too :)

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

They said nothing about "Thief not ready for release".
They said "Rogue is a Thief, but since each class need to fit in the lore and have an official guild, the thieves have evolved into Rogues"

As for another tank, they didn't mention the gun-using class so maybe we'll have a tank from an existing classes, like Lancer or Pugilist. A mage tank could be something really refreshing too :)

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However they did said "[We're saving some information for Fanfest.]" when talking about jobs. Thievery evolving into a Rogue's Guild does not mean a job master of the old Thievery ways cannot come to light to teach us in the old ways. Again just like in BLM's story, the job master broke out of prison or therabouts in order to teach the forbidden magic.

If they're releasing a brand new class with only a single job it would be relatively safe to say that a dual job system is going to be the exception (ACN) and not the rule. Odds of current classes getting a new job seem very low if we don't hear about THF coming from Rogue at Fanfest.

I don't think ACN will be an exception. First, because Yoshida mentionned several times that they plan jobs to revamp action of their class for different roles.
And second, because there's really no point of keeping classes if jobs are better in every way in the same role.
And third, it would be useless for a class to have two jobs with the same role, so the difficult part will be how to manage these secondary jobs to work, even at low-level, thus the long time it take for clearly annouce it.

As for the gun class, they'll probably implement it first just because Musketeer's guild was in the game back in 1.0, so players really waited long time for it. I think this is also the reason why they choose Arcanist for the new class of 2.0

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

First, because Yoshida mentionned several times that they plan jobs to revamp action of their class for different roles.

As for the gun class, they'll probably implement it first just because Musketeer's guild was in the game back in 1.0, so players really waited long time for it. I think this is also the reason why they choose Arcanist for the new class of 2.0

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Wherein did he mention the bit about revamping actions to make the class perform different roles today? I must have missed it.

If you mean Musketeer coming before Rogue they specifically stated that Rogue is coming in 2.4 and that tanks/healers were coming in the actual expansion (a good ways away).

He mentionned that a long time ago, using Dark Knight from Gladiator as an example.

I meant Musketeer coming before new tanks/healers.

After the trailers at E3 I'm so hyped for Ninjas!