Solutions to stop speedrunning

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

They need to keep that message for the level 50 ones. Give more gil/myth/soldiery on completion that one time as their bonus.

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They once had it... There was a reason why they took it away if I say so.

Give the option I spose. I do not want to be synced for lvl50 duties. We have all worked hard to get the ilvl we have now. Why be penalized. It is simple. You don't want to speed run, then don't. If you want to speed run, then do.

I think this started because the OP didn't want to be "forced" to speed run or have it imposed upon them. Why then would the solution be to impose or force someone who enjoys and wants to speed run to sync their ilvl or to run the dungeon slower?

I mean is this really an issue still? Myth is a necessity still. Atma books, amount required is ridiculous. Not gonna grind those at a normal pace. 500 myth for crafting items, list goes on.

SR's in no way change the way you play or enjoy the game. You do not have to participate in them.

The notion of enforcing slowdowns won't solve it. There will be work arounds or the duty disappears due to it being abandoned for another one that will offer comparable tomes/run time.

WP/AK's all over again.

Syn

>>Flame away ^.^ Just my opinion<<

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Originally Posted by dvoraen

What's wrong with the EXPERT roulette having an ilvl cap? This entire thread has a common theme of: "I'm entitled to not have to work for what I want." <- wat (aka - what's wrong with the world today)

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I believe I am entitled at level 50 to use the gear I HAVE worked for to it's maximum potential. If that makes me bad then so be it.

If a member doesn't want to speed run then fine I'll go with the flow but there's no reason to make it an impossibility.

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

Personally, this is why I want to see an iLvl Sync enabled. The problem of people being overgeared for content isn't going to go away - it's only going to aggravate, actually. And while I can see this being okay to an extent, especially as Square has stated they want earlier content to become 'easier', it's making plenty of locations easier than things you did back before level 50.

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Or why not just t1-5 more rewarding? So can all the people with high iLvl gear go there and farm.

When the level cap increases they most likely will put an ilvl cap on the 50 dungeons, the same as sub 50 dungeons have sync. In my opinion they should have an ilvl cap for all dungeons (say +3 above the entry requirement or whatever it is on lower dungeons) just for consistency if nothing else.

The only reason its a grind is because they saw how quickly people farm and therefore scaled requirements to match, instead of reducing required items but making the farm harder.

There could be an iLV sync for some dungeons, but I think we would then lots of angry people who want to use their potential in these dungeons and calling it unfair.

Boosting up the rewards for coil..is nice, but it would take people away from dungeon runs, this isn't something I think the dev team wants to do, they want to recycle and use all if not most content.

I did a run last night in one of the hard modes and the goblins will use "jump" on you, as a healer a few of those sort of hurt. Also you have mobs who are a bit strong but can be weakened if placed under the spiked ball of debuff.

These are things that if they adjust properly they could not so much eliminate speed runs but eat away at the gap needed for sac pullls vs casual. If they apply this method more and adjust it could make it so that the speed runners can only progress so far but not so far that a casual or a new person couldn't keep up to a certain point.

I know someone said about increasing how hard mobs are, and I said we don't want that. What i'm referring to is hard mobs that if you play the dungeon right can have their power reduced (HP / DEF / STR etc...) to a tolerable level. What stops then a tank from pulling 8 / 9 all at once? After a certain level..nothing. But within a certain range pulling that many could mean some mobs don't get hit by the environment debuff causing harder hitting tougher mobs. Now a decked out pt is going to run through it but it would limit people while at the same time give new / casuals ways to have it not be so harsh, while the speed runners (who are limited on how far they can advance) will have a harder time but if they're maxed out past a certain point we know it won't matter.

It's not about eliminating the speed runners but restricting and closing the gap between them and a new guy, it won't be 100% perfect..but what is? Only one thing in this world is perfect and it's called bacon.

Or take the goblins randomly jumping, add enough of that in a sac pull and have it so it can randomly kill say a white mage (like myself), not from just one jump but if they decide to pull 12 mobs and 6 of them can random jump for some dmg...no it's not the nicest thing to do to a player but it will make them think for a while "can we pull this?"

But these are just ideas, with drawbacks and after a certain point don't solve the issue..but I'm thinking of it more as not resolving it but slowly taking out small chunks of the problem. I think they could be on the right path...will wait and see at next patch.

I've been thinking about this, and I guess it really comes down: what is the actual problem with speed runs? Not with people, but speed running a dungeon?

If there is no actual problem with speed running a dungeon, and the problem is the people, then there is no solution necessary to speed running a dungeon. Then it would be a people-problem - at which point the solution is to ask not to SR and if no success, drop out of the dungeon.

I mean, is there really an actual situation and problem being able to go through a dungeon super fast? Don't you have days that you just want to get the dungeon run over with? If so, you'd be hard pressed against an actual regulation set in, because it will have to be all encompassing.

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Originally Posted by AlrikRouge

I've been thinking about this, and I guess it really comes down: what is the actual problem with speed runs? Not with people, but speed running a dungeon?

If there is no actual problem with speed running a dungeon, and the problem is the people, then there is no solution necessary to speed running a dungeon. Then it would be a people-problem - at which point the solution is to ask not to SR and if no success, drop out of the dungeon.

I mean, is there really an actual situation and problem being able to go through a dungeon super fast? Don't you have days that you just want to get the dungeon run over with? If so, you'd be hard pressed against an actual regulation set in, because it will have to be all encompassing.

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As you and I said (in my previous reply): This is a people problem. No regulation will work it out for you. You have to work it out yourself.
But I go further than that. People have to understand DF and Roulette are made so you play with total strangers. If you can't live with the fact that other people see things different than yourself and that is impossible for you to adapt to other player to form a team that has the same goal, then, do not join DF, make a PF instead.

The solution is already there! PARTY FINDER!!!

I hope this picture will help some of you understand the problem is about people and emotions, no game mechanic or rules could fix that. Gotta learn to play with each other.
http://s30.postimg.org/laiq3vj9d/sr2.jpg

Again, I know not everyone is strong enough to stand for his ideas and can be hard for them to express how they want to play to other players. But please stop seeing speed runs as a problem, it is not the problem. You see the problem apprea in SR, but it is not THE problem. SR is just not made for you, just don't join any SR or Roulette, you won't miss anything!!!

We have tons of BS rules in real life because of people who don't see clearly where really was the problem and IF you can or cannot control it. Fear is powerful and make us all do stupid stuff.

EDIT: Added the picture

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Originally Posted by saber_alter

1: queue as a healer, (optional)
2: wait for tank to do large pull.
3: when he dies, yell at him for trying to force you into a speedrun.

if he leaves, get a friend to queue in progress. have no friends? leave and requeue.

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I suppose you are kidding, lol. This mentality disregards completely the interests of the other members of the party, especially the DPS that would have to wait for a new member or wait for another long queue.

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

They once had it... There was a reason why they took it away if I say so.

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What was the reason, people being stupid and immediately leaving the party like morons because they believed a new person couldn't pull their weight like everybody else?

I think the solution is communication, but it's not that easy and not everyone is in the mood to start typing instead of starting the dungeon.

People who want to go fast usually say something, those who don't want big pulls also. Others just let the tank decide and many times pull additional mobs if they want to have bigger groups. In my case I have a look at the HP of the party and if all are high HP I'm more at ease to pull more (not huge pulls unless asked to.) If someone has low HP (especially if it's the healer) I am more cautious.

In WP it's the same, depending on the group you can go faster or not.

If there are no ranged DPS it doesn't make much sense to pull big groups.

In fact there are keys and doors, and developers know the lock out tecniques, etc. so speed runs surely were predicted by them.

The fact that planning the dungeon by the party and communicating makes things better is probably something desired by the developers too. An MMO is a lot about relationship with other players and team play, even in a Duty Finder team.

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Originally Posted by AlrikRouge

I've been thinking about this, and I guess it really comes down: what is the actual problem with speed runs? Not with people, but speed running a dungeon?

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Not to mention, if ilvl90 or higher geared, single pack pulling gives zero challenge, in Braflox HM. doing a single pull pre boss makes you have to use CDs. watch aggro on multiple mobs, healer needs to be on their game as the tank takes a LOT of damage and the DPS need to burn hard.

Speed runs add a modicum of challenge over normal runs.

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Originally Posted by Fuyuu

The solution is already there! COMMUNICATE!!!

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Fixed.

I mostly tank in DF and if I see the party is high ilvl (just nee dto check HP) ask if they want hard and fast or slow and steady. If the party is around 3k HPish, then I'll take it steadier. Also it is NOT just the tank that pushes speedruns. Ive had parties with a high ilvl Healer and too low ilvl DDs. So I started steady to gauge what they could handle. After 3rd pull, as puleld to what seemed they could handle comfortably, healer left because wasn't fast enough. DDs whining that it wasnt a speed run when the healer was low Ilvl.

So no, don't put it on one role :)

Usually if you ask not to speedrun people won't. At least, that's what always happened to me. Personally I don't like speedrunning at all and if asked, I always reply no. The only dungeons I SR are Praetorium and CM, and even then, if there is a new player, I always tell them that we can finish it just fine with 7 people and to enjoy the story and the cutscenes if they want to.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Fixed.

I mostly tank in DF and if I see the party is high ilvl (just nee dto check HP) ask if they want hard and fast or slow and steady. If the party is around 3k HPish, then I'll take it steadier. Also it is NOT just the tank that pushes speedruns. Ive had parties with a high ilvl Healer and too low ilvl DDs. So I started steady to gauge what they could handle. After 3rd pull, as puleld to what seemed they could handle comfortably, healer left because wasn't fast enough. DDs whining that it wasnt a speed run when the healer was low Ilvl.

So no, don't put it on one role :)

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This also work, haha! :)

Btw why can't they just add in a bomb monster that dies in 1 hit in every few mobs. It will apply a party wide stacking debuff that will make the next similar death explosion do more damage, so if they are all rounded up and popped they will kill the whole party. ( similar to ifrit ex nails ) so that way they are easy to kill , a mechanic that prevents speed running / pulling all the mobs then aoe bursting them.

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Originally Posted by CYoung187

That extra 15 min would be much less if you just took 15 seconds to talk to your group.

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As the first pull takes under a minute, I think 'much less' in this case is rather overstated.

http://rationaloptimist.files.wordpr...high-horse.jpg

As a healer, I personally LOVE it when a tank wants to do big pulls. The current dungeons, as designed, offer only an illusion of difficulty. Larger pulls just make things more exciting. I have to be on the ball, as one mistake could mean everyone's death. I love it!

Standard slow pulls? I'll just let Eos heal you while I run in circles around the mob and Miasma II. Maybe even let out a bad pun or two.

If you think about it, its rather sad. My pet can quite effectively heal most dungeons on its own (apart from boss encounters) when playing them as designed. We need harder PF dungeons :-/

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Originally Posted by Tinker

As a healer, I personally LOVE it when a tank wants to do big pulls. The current dungeons, as designed, offer only an illusion of difficulty. Larger pulls just make things more exciting. I have to be on the ball, as one mistake could mean everyone's death. I love it!

Standard slow pulls? I'll just let Eos heal you while I run in circles around the mob and Miasma II. Maybe even let out a bad pun or two.

If you think about it, its rather sad. My pet can quite effectively heal most dungeons on its own (apart from boss encounters) when playing them as designed. We need harder PF dungeons :-/

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But if dungeons are too hard then people will whine about them being too hard, like how Pharos Sirius and Amphador Township were. Make it hard and people will ask for nerfs or demand absolutely ridiculous requirements to run it; you do know they nerft Pharos Sirius cuz it "too hard" right? Seriously, what do you people want?

Not that any of that actually matters, people will just do easiest and most profitable dungeons, completely ignoring the harder ones. Some will probably only doing the harder ones once or twice for "the challenge."

The only solution I can think of is to make harder dungeons drop significantly better rewards, to make them "worthwhile." Even then though, I'm sure this will bring its own host of problems and people will still definitely definitely find something to whine about it.

I loved PS. The only problem with 'hard' dungeons is that they make the iLvL requirement for them to low, artificially inflating the difficulty.

If they wanted to stop speedrunnning, though, it would be easy.

In every x amount of mobs, have a slime spawn. Alone, they are easy cannon fodder. Nevertheless, when two come into proximity they merge into a creature of near-boss damage output. When three merge, well - lets hope you're on your A-game. They cannot be slept or CC'd.

(( I think i'd go for the double slimes every run, myself! ))

They need to do something about Speed Runs because of this:
- People who hate it, and complain about it can't understand that they have a choice! Do not do ANY roulette or ANY DutyFinder, you won't run in any SpeedRun EVER! You just have to do your own little PartyFinder instead. Those people who can't understand that are extremely frustrated every day! It's not good for the game.
- People who hate it blame the SpeedRun method only. They have to understand the majority of the problem comes from people and communicating skill. If you can't work out stuff in DF with strangers, you know what to do!

I'm not saying they need to change or eliminate SR! They can just either add more alternatives for those SR haters or advertise PF better. I dunno.

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Originally Posted by Fuyuu

- People who hate it, and complain about it can't understand that they have a choice! Do not do ANY roulette or ANY DutyFinder, you won't run in any SpeedRun EVER! You just have to do your own little PartyFinder instead. Those people who can't understand that are extremely frustrated every day! It's not good for the game.

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You have it reversed. People go into DR and DF expecting to be able to speed run, when they should be using Party Finder for that. Try coming into a Duty while I'm healing, I'll drop the tank in a heartbeat if he tries without asking.

Well, we both have it reversed.

I personally think DF and Roulette mean you have to deal with random people/jerks and adapt to the current situation and party member style.
Party Finder, on the other hand, you can actually force your play style to everyone.

But, that is just my opinion, I am not Jesus.

Party Finder. "Full Run(s) -x- dungeon".

/thread.

Roulette / Dungeon Finder groups tend run along the lines of majority rules. If most people are for speedrunning, you're going to speedrun. It's all about adapting to the group.

If you want to force a group to your method, be it speed or slow, use party finder. That's what it's there for.

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Originally Posted by Tinker

Roulette / Dungeon Finder groups tend run along the lines of majority rules. If most people are for speedrunning, you're going to speedrun. It's all about adapting to the group.

If you want to force a group to your method, be it speed or slow, use party finder. That's what it's there for.

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Sorry, you have that 100% backwards. No one person or group has the right to buffalo someone in a randomly selected party (Duty Roulette/Finder). It's also quite presumptuous to think that everyone wants to speedrun in Duty Finder/Roulette. If you want to advertise speedruns in Party Finder, go crazy. If you or any other adrenaline addict want to try that in DF/DR, just pray you don't run across a tank or healer who isn't obessed with "efficiency".

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Originally Posted by sylent09

I personally prefer speed run. It's simple to remove it....Just don't do it.

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Most of the time you don't have a choice, these days the tank takes off without saying a thing and pulls all the mobs. If we have under geared healers the party wipes. If the tank is a jerk he will wipe the party again and then leave. By your statement we have a choice. I guess we do, waisted time in DF, ask to be kicked, or wait to be kicked. Thats about it. the problem that many are complaining about is these speed runs are ruining the experience for many. And many who are forcing speed runs on others don't care and won't adjust and waist time putting down anyone who isn't already i90+.

I keep seeing people say "Forcing" and "Making" others do speed runs because "We don't have a choice". Poppycock!! No one is forcing you to do ANYTHING. If the tanks takes off without communication, stand your happy a$$ there and wait for him to die, prepare yourself for the incomming "WTF...bla bla" from him, then respond "Oh you want to speed run? Sorry I don't" or "Break the pulls up please" whatever.

Yea yea, there will be strife, might even get voted out or the tank will leave. So what. It's a game not a job. Another one will come, prolly one who will understand the party setup better than the first dipstick and run it according to party skill level.

When I pop in on tank, I first check everyone to see where they are at gear wise (this is in no way an indicator of their skill). Second I say hi! Then proceed to ask, speed or normal? If they say speed(provided gear supports it), I let them know how I pull it, then we get to work. If it fails, then we start over and I half pull. If they want normal, I am ok with that, I would rather complete the duty than waste time on wipes.

It is your game time. Enjoy it, don't let some anonymous egghead behind a KB "force" you to play their way.


I go in with the assumption that everyone is there for Soldiery, so I am prepared to run the whole duty.

On a side note, I wan't to raise mah chocobo while I wait on duties on dps....plz.

Syn

By reviewing OP post, it seems the captioned "speedrunnning" is referring to "2boss myth run" ?

I think the caption is misleading ^^; as OP's suggestions are talking about stopping ppl quit after 2nd boss?

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

You have it reversed. People go into DR and DF expecting to be able to speed run, when they should be using Party Finder for that. Try coming into a Duty while I'm healing, I'll drop the tank in a heartbeat if he tries without asking.

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ooo we have a badass here

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

You have it reversed. People go into DR and DF expecting to be able to speed run, when they should be using Party Finder for that. Try coming into a Duty while I'm healing, I'll drop the tank in a heartbeat if he tries without asking.

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Who are YOU to decide what people SHOULD do with DF and DR ? The President ? Jesus ? God ?
Is there a message, somewhere, telling us how we should use DF or DR ? No, there isn't any.
You decided something, and expect the World to follow your stupid decision. Thanks, God !

DR is used for the bonus. PF is used when DF isn't the best option. This has nothing to do with speedrunning or not. And melees have issues to create a good speerunning group in PF (at least, on my server).

The funny part is how people like you whines about someone being selfish, when you are reacting in an even more selfish way. Your kind of players is the worst, if we could get rid of you, this kind of threads wouldn't exist at all.

I've gotten tired of speedrunning bray at this point my FC and I will just speed through the first 2 bosses of Haukke HM. Brayflox healing is just too much of a pain even in my i93 gear and I don't think I'm THAT bad of a healer.

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Originally Posted by Ignitius

I've gotten tired of speedrunning bray at this point my FC and I will just speed through the first 2 bosses of Haukke HM. Brayflox healing is just too much of a pain even in my i93 gear and I don't think I'm THAT bad of a healer.

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Do your tank uses his CD for the 2 big pulls ? When I do, the first pull is really easy, the second big pull is a bit harder but nothing really dangerous.

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Originally Posted by Alcyon1

Do your tank uses his CD for the 2 big pulls ? When I do, the first pull is really easy, the second big pull is a bit harder but nothing really dangerous.

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You know, as far as I know the tank only used 1 CD (the one to keep him at 1hp), but then again I'm not too familiar with WAR cooldowns.

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Originally Posted by Ignitius

I've gotten tired of speedrunning bray at this point my FC and I will just speed through the first 2 bosses of Haukke HM. Brayflox healing is just too much of a pain even in my i93 gear and I don't think I'm THAT bad of a healer.

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I'm on PS3 and healing through Bray is super easy

Doesn't Haukke not give as good of a reward as Brayflox? Can't remember, but Brayflox (imo as a healer) is very easy

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Originally Posted by Ignitius

Brayflox healing is just too much of a pain even in my i93 gear and I don't think I'm THAT bad of a healer.

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If you are both at this iLvL, it's either you or the tank that should read some guides on his/her job.
Or I get that "much of a pain" wrong.

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Originally Posted by Spoekes

If you are both at this iLvL, it's either you or the tank that should read some guides on his/her job.
Or I get that "much of a pain" wrong.

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I'm not sure what ilvl he's at. I don't think it's 90 though that's for sure. Maybe 80s?
I know he has a disdain for tanking it anyway so it could be tank. I just never had such an issue previously with the stacking method. /shrug

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Originally Posted by Alcyon1

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Who decided that Speed Running without informing the party was a good thing? Yes I'm a horrible person for letting the tank drops if he tries without asking, I outright admit that. But if you think doing something that requires full attention from the rest of the party without informing them is a good thing, you're not too bright. Besides, if you're in the ROULETTE, meaning RANDOM PLAYERS, you should not expect a speed run to work nor should you expect everybody to be okay with trying it.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Who decided that Speed Running without informing the party was a good thing? Yes I'm a horrible person for letting the tank drops if he tries without asking, I outright admit that. But if you think doing something that requires full attention from the rest of the party without informing them is a good thing, you're not too bright. Besides, if you're in the ROULETTE, meaning RANDOM PLAYERS, you should not expect a speed run to work nor should you expect everybody to be okay with trying it.

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Common policy : when you join a group of strangers, you are expected to do your job to clean the dungeon. And I don't expect a speedrun, I expect players at 100% capacity. Yesterday, via DR, I got a healer with 3.3K HP, A DRG with 3.7K HP and a BLM with 3.9K HP : I tanked pack per pack, period.
Some players are on PS3 and cannot write fast, some players don't talk english, etc. You can't expect YOUR standards to be EVERYBODY standards, deal with it. If you are not happy, leave the group, but stop trolling them.

again, your kind of players polluates the game.