patch 2.2 turn 1-5 easier.....

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Originally Posted by Razzelmire

Please quote an official source on this.

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Launch: http://na.square-enix.com/us/games/f...v-realm-reborn
Easing difficulty: Yoshi-P, Producer's Letter Live XII: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...1izocL3I#t=737

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Originally Posted by Razzelmire

Lockouts. If this was never there Coil would not have caused toxicity in the community and breaking FCs apart as it has now.

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I keep hearing this statement and it just confuses me in general, what MMO raiding environment were all these people coming from that they've never had to deal with lockouts before?

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Originally Posted by Razzelmire

One other thing. For those saying we had 6+months no we did not. First, myself and many more, do not put 40+ hours a week into this game. I have a job and family. Next, you gotta spend time leveling to 50 (and doing it again with a 2nd class for Coil subs) and grind them to get geared after. You also need to find 7 other members that can consistently play in your time slot (mine is always late evenings CST) and work like clockwork together. If you are stuck using all PUGs it takes twice as long to get anything done and you are relying on pure luck at that point.

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What are you even talking about, you don't have to play 40+ hours a week in this game to have downed Coil. That's ridiculous. When we were progressing on Coil we had 2 2 hour raid nights each week, then went up to 3 2 hour raid nights when we got to TT. This game has required the least amount of time for me in the raiding scene of any MMO I've played before, it's a big part of why I like it as I'm not committed to 12+ hours a week just on raiding.

What you do need is a group of 8 people that can commit to regular attempts, even if it's only 2 times a week. Everything else falls into place after that.

I expected and welcomed it but I do think it is too soon.

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Originally Posted by Worm

*Woosh*

You see here Game Winner, the joke is that you'll have to deal with the hardcore of hardcore who pollute the forum of your finally hardcore AAA MMO with random demands for even harder corer stuff!

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That was a joke? Over me correcting someone that thought *every* mmorpg ever has vertical gear progression? What the fuck?

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Originally Posted by Aikota

Casual gamers make them more money...while the "hardcore" players are crying like babies they still pay for the subscription... Another useless post yet once again.

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Define casual though, people assume because someone hasn't done coil yet it automatically means they won't do it till it's nerfed, I for one wouldn't call myself a hardcore at all, i still want to face the boss properly but my circumstances will likely prevent me from doing so before nerf. 'Casual' doesn't always mean you don't want a challenge, you just don't rush or desire to get everything to max etc. Obviously there are people who want little challenge but not all people that are casual think like that.

[QUOTE=CianaIezuborn;1825666]What are you even talking about, you don't have to play 40+ hours a week in this game to have downed Coil. That's ridiculous. SNIP /QUOTE]

FFXI, Old Republic and DDO did not have lockouts.

I knew plenty playing that long and they were Coil ready by the end of the 1st month. I was not ready until 1st week of Nov. Other FC members of mine took even longer. Then we had to find statics. Not easy the more time that passes. Here we are getting ready to take T1-5, whether it took us the 1st month or the 4th but now we are being told we rushed for no reason because we will always lag behind and get stuck doing Easy mode while everyone else had their chance at the original run.

My reasoning is to simply make a Hard mode version with the i90 drops. I have no issue of easy mode as long as I can still access pre patch T5. Titan HM is still left untouched which was good. He was meant to be a checkpoint between staying a sucky player or upping your skills.

Maybe SE wants to make money? Where's the money is having "most" players quit out of frustration? Yea yea, T5 is easy for joo... you are teh bestest. So what's the point in keeping T5 at its current difficulty level where "most" people will not ever pass it? Might as well lower it a bit and define a new hardcore wall that challenges people, while letting others progress the story and thus maintain their subscription... It silly NOT to lower T5 difficulty with Patch 2.2.

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Originally Posted by Razzelmire

Maybe they should quit then.

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Crap comments like this.. If everyone followed your advice and quit the game, leaving about 10% paying subscribers do you think SE would keep the servers open just for You ? It's the ones that cant clear content are the very ones coming back everyday to try again. Those that can clear content are bitching about not having enough content and are bored. Do us favor SHUT UP.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

That was a joke? Over me correcting someone that thought *every* mmorpg ever has vertical gear progression? What the fuck?

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Yeah it wasn't a joke about your response just in response to the constant parading specter of horizontal progression you guys do. I hope if you finally get your ideal perfect MMO you've got a bunch of players who never shut up about permadeath.

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Originally Posted by Razzelmire

I'm not ok with them making T1-5 easier and it's now part of the reason I am quitting this game.

Now Square Enix is punishing my loyalty to my FC by nerfing T1-5.

Sorry, Square Enix, you lost a customer. Made me, and many others, bust ourselves dry to beat Coil as it is and you still want to screw us over.

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Balancing the wants/needs of the HC and the wants/needs of the casual is the hardest part of designing and maintaining any MMO.

Knowing this you must understand that you may be in that very difficult "Grey Area" where often only some of your wants/needs may be met. It sounds to me like you're not exactly a HC player nor are you a strictly Casual player either. I'm similar in that regard though i have a different perspective on the changes.

They aren't punishing you they are rewarding you with faster progression to reach the next level of difficulty.

It's all a matter of perspective.

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Originally Posted by Razzelmire

I am not even putting into consideration the time one also puts into crafts, field, Beast quests, [etc]. If I ignored all of these maybe I can finally finish Coil as it is but why such a huge sacrifice?

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I'm sorry but I think you're the first person I've heard of complaining that there is TOO MUCH content...

1. Beast quests, crafting, etc. will all be there post 2.2, so not really a sacrifice
2. Pugs and FC growth are not the only paths to Coil, there is a middle ground. Ally with another FC for the sake of Raids. I've done it and it's worked out beautifully. We have players from nearly every timezone in the US and we make it work
3. I put in far less than 40+ hours a week, I choose my battles. Coil is something I really want to complete so I've stopped/reduced my time in other areas.
4. 1000 char limit is annoying 2000 would be better.

I have not been past T2 in Coil. Have not done any extremes. I'm a very competent player.
I play a few hours each week when I have time.
I'm married and we often do other activities together (since she doesn't game) that consumes a good amount of my time as well.

There are other things I enjoy doing in the game than trying to find a pug for Coil where people have have some elitist attitude bitching and crying because you don't play the same content as much as they do.

That being said, I'm glad they're adding the Turns to Duty Finder and taking off the lock out. I could care less about the nerf though.

I like how some players here think FFXIV is designed for hardcore players, always gives me a good laugh. Just a word of advice to you though, if you are playing this game in the hopes that it will be the ultimate test of your gaming skill, then you are sadly mistaken. There are other games out there with content more focused on pure min-maxing and being the best of the best gamer. FFXIV is not that kind of game, so prepared to be increasingly bored from every update from this point on. The casual player-base is the majority here, and majority rules all in the end. What little hardcore content exists at any give time will be softened in order to satisfy the casual playerbase. If you are ultra-hardcore and insist on playing FFXIV, you will just have to make due with whatever new content is added each update until that is inevitably eased. You are the extreme minority, and your demands carry little, if any, weight. Although FFXI isn't as hardcore as it used to be, it's still up and running and may be the better game to satisfy your specific needs in MMORPGs. That's the reason why FFXIV isn't FFXI-2, and why FFXI continues to exist...they are completely different games with completely different goals in mind of who they will cater to the most.

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Originally Posted by Pots_Talos

The real question is, how can something so easy become easier?
Turn 1 - No stacks and no split
Turn 2 - 2 chests appear once you enter
Turn 3 - removed
Turn 4 - 50% HP reduction for all mobs
Turn 5 - Tank and spank

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My guess how Coil will be nerfed

1. Damage will be lowered.
2. Rot will no longer instantly kill. Maybe do 3000 raid wide damage each time it's not passed.
3. No change
4. Enemy HP will be reduced to make the dps race easier and dreadnaughts will be made weaker
5. HP and damage will be lowered for everything. Nothing except timing out a conflag and Twintania's ultimate move will instantly kill.

All the gimmicks and mechanics won't be removed but made easier and no longer severely punishing.

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Originally Posted by Worm

Yeah it wasn't a joke about your response just in response to the constant parading specter of horizontal progression you guys do. I hope if you finally get your ideal perfect MMO you've got a bunch of players who never shut up about permadeath.

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...wow.
The Self-righteous bitch tone in that reply was so thick, it'd take three seats on a bus.

Anyhow, while I haven't done coil yet (Planning on doing it with a few friends, but we're all leveling together, playing catch up) I don't really disagree with the nerfs, but rather I wish they would just let the natural progression of player skill developing, as well as gear advancements balance things out gradually. After all, once they make Ilvl.255 gear or whatever in the future, you're still going to be able to do old LV.50 things with that Ilvl.255 gear, turning into a breeze fest anyways.

I see in this thread the standard reasoning of people that in other games, will go lower maps ganking lowbies, and still have the nerve to call it "PVP" :D

Another standard, is "if it is easy to me, is easy for all the world".

I really wish top-level-notch players being more creative, when making threads as this one, that clearly says "hey! I had hard time doing that, so everyone else must have same hard time, forever! And newbz must get lost!"

I don't understand the OP's fear, what is there to fear? Casual gamer catching up to you top-players in gear? That will never happen, so just relax and let everyone enjoy some content that, without nerf, they most likely will never can see in their game lifetime.

I really appreciate how challenging Square has made some instances, and I think it's a bad idea to scale down difficulty. If people want to reach Coil they need to be willing to put in the effort to learn how their class works/acquire the appropriate gear.

Still having this whine fest? They are making it easier so everyone can experience it.get off you're high horse.

By "easier" they've already stated that the dungeon's mechanics will not be changed, but that the Echo buff will be made available and - key word here - OPTIONAL. You don't HAVE to use the Echo buff if you want the challenge. Adding the turns to the duty finder only streamlines the process so those who haven't done Coil yet, will have an easier time of being able to. You know, so that eventually, they too can challenge the new Turns, either right along side the others who get there first, or if they want to wait for the next addition/Echoes/lockout removal, they can do that too. What they DON'T want is for Turns 1-5 to be that glass ceiling that stops players from being able to experience the new additions, or worse, give up on the game entirely.

So, MMO's changed about 8 years ago with WoW. Regardless of what people think, it changed how MMO's work and who plays them. Way back, MMO's were hard and skill based but skill based does not bring people into pay and play your game. As such, there is what normally what is called "The Hardcore Wall". This is the bleeding edge for you guys that you get to run till the next patch comes out and nerfs it. You have MONTHS to train, get good. Then us normal mortals who aren't gods of DPS rotation and tanking skill get to walk in and have our fun, feeling awesome while you guys hammer on to the next line. You have NO reason to complain till the new content becomes too easy. When the people who were originally unable to do Turn 1-5 suddenly are downing Levi-EX, THEN you get to throw your toys out of the pram like you have a problem. Till then, Chill. We mortals are hardly coming to steal your crown as lords of the game. You guys still get your difficulty. :)

will this echo buff change the rewards? so if someone completes the "nerfed" version they get a lower ilvl item or less experience or whatnot? If not.. here comes the smack in the face to all the people who died 3 dozen times or worked their rears off to accomplish something. Sometimes i wish wow never happened. (alot of the time)

All this buff will do is further complicate things and create animosity. "oh i beat xx before xx" or "I finished xx when xx was the way it was" Sigh, people need a baseline and with the constant altering of content to fit everyones capability it loses its point. I thought thats why we have regular mode, hard mode and extreme mode? /frustration ON

Btw - Check out Pantheon on kickstarter. For those who know who brad mcquaid is, i have 2 words for you - New Game.

No, as far as they've said, the OPTIONAL echo buff will not change the rewards. (Think about it, for the content that exists that already invokes the echo if you're struggling, does it change the overall rewards for that?) This really isn't about entitlement or catering to casuals. They want people to be able to experience new content, otherwise, why add it? And the hardcores or the first ones to accomplish something don't lose anything for it. I mean, they're the ones who already beat the Turns, so what's it matter? Think about it; If I climb a mountain with my bare hands, before anyone else, then someone comes along and uses climbing gear, is my accomplishment less awesome now? No. If my reward were simply to say I reached the top, then I did it first, without gear. No one can take that from me. And even if they began giving out trophies for climbing that mountain, I STILL did it under more extreme conditions. And no trophy/reward is going to beat that.

Also, Hard and Extreme modes aren't there to filter players. Those are there to add further challenge to the game. The Hard modes are actually necessary, Extreme modes aren't. But for those who already conquered the Hard challenge and wanted more, they introduced Extreme. And yet still, I'm sure there are players who simply excel at the game, and want harder challenges. . .

Halatali Hard Mode, Brayflox Hard Mode, Ruins of Amdapor, Leviathan/HM/EX, and Turns 6-9 say hi.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

... Halatali Hard Mode, Brayflox Hard Mode, Ruins of Amdapor, Leviathan/HM/EX, and Turns 6-9 say hi.

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you forgot Moogle ex

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Originally Posted by abzoluut

Is it just me, or do many other people feel like SE rewards the casual gamer every single time. Now they will make turn 1-5 easier so people can start at turn 6 (available through DF as well!).

I do not mind the DF part since doing Coil in i80 + gear is rather easy except for maybe turn 5 if you have to pug it.

Why would they make it easier, does anyone have a clue other than "casual gamer" argument? It's very disappointing when a game, which already is quite easy, becomes easier......

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Go do the new content in 2.2 why bother yourself with what they do on staff that doesn't interest end game player anymore

The truth is even with coils getting nerfed, the ONLY groups that are going to clear it are groups that work well and learn the mechanics. You will still have to master the mechanics to get through it. Guaranteed. Theres still people that wont be able to dodge divebombs/twisters and trap their groups in conflags. So even after the nerf ppl will still be stuck on it. They will probably nerf the enrage timer which will make T5 easier and T2 harder. Better start working on your rot strats xD

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Originally Posted by abzoluut

Is it just me, or do many other people feel like SE rewards the casual gamer every single time. Now they will make turn 1-5 easier so people can start at turn 6 (available through DF as well!).

I do not mind the DF part since doing Coil in i80 + gear is rather easy except for maybe turn 5 if you have to pug it.

Why would they make it easier, does anyone have a clue other than "casual gamer" argument? It's very disappointing when a game, which already is quite easy, becomes easier......

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1) Echo buff can be disabled if you don't want to handicap yourself. Your whole team can turn it off if it bothers you so much.

2) Why do you care? Turn 6+ will still be more difficult than turn 1-5, at which point "CASUAL GAMERS" will be unable to progress the same way you assume they aren't able to progress now.

3) Stop being so egocentric. In case you didn't know, Coil 1-5 are the final stages of the game. ATM it's currently difficult and restricted enough that I've been level 50 for over a month and have only been able to play up until Turn 2. That's a farcry from the usual pace of the game, and thats only because it has strict requirements on who can play it.


Coil is only designed that way because after 1-5, there is nothing else to do in the game. When 2.2 hits, that will no longer be the point. As such, there will be NO logical reason to keep a cork on the game progression like that


If the entire game was made "HARDCORE" the way you envision it, we'd be up to patch 2.9 and probably more than 65% of the playerbase would be bottlenecked into Coil turn 1-5. FFXIV is Subscription based, not F2P. That's a deathstroke for the playerbase. People like progression, they don't like stagnant content.

They make it easier because the people who already have the gear and could do it before they nerfed it will only be focusing on T5+, while the people having issues with T2-T4 will still need the gear, so they will have to actually spend time to catch up.

Either way, nerf or not, the hardcore will be ahead, and progression will not be handed out where it matters (Leviathan, T6-T8 etc)

Why would this even bother you?
No one's forcing you to wipe on hours on new content, you could just wait for the inevitable nerfs before you go do the content if you want, so saying that you worked harder for the same gear is not a valid argument at all.
Why do any of the content at all? Because it's a game, and it's fun to play said game. Some people like to play more challenging games than others. It's not rocket science.

There was a recent developer video from Sony with Yoshida where he himself described this game as for "very casual" players.

It's also been said that you can click off the buff like any other buff if you want to challenge it at normal difficulty.

Why do people even care? It's not as if it's going to invalidate your personal accomplishments. You beat it when it was relevant and in 2.2 you're going to beat the cutting edge content well before a good chunk of the population. I don't see the problem?

It's the same whinefest people threw when several Nintendo Wii games had the Super Guide feature to help players that got stuck on a level; people go into a spasm if they see a game becoming easier, even if said easiness can be controlled at any time.

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Originally Posted by kayuwoody

you could just wait for the inevitable nerfs before you go do the content if you want

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Many people have the aim to be able to advertive as early as possible "we've cleared it" and others want to clear it the hard way.

These people will not wait till a nerf is done.

Personally it doesnt bother me at all. Coil 1-4 has been a pushover for months already for the group im playing with. On shiva you can reasonably PUG that with a degree of success.
The real concern here i have really is whether the new content is going to last us long enough to keep people interested for another 6 months before new coil is out.

Until now youve had to learn your class obtain gear etc now that you achieved a certain level of play the learning curve wont be there its going to be all about boss mechanics.
I think by now nobody has any delusions that new content is going to be on par with Turn 5 because they wouldnt make it as accesible to everyone.

One could hope that once more people had a crack at it SE could change their developing outlines and give us some more stuff to kill. I enjoyed WoW model where you had Hard Modes to aim for at least it sort of doubled the amount of content.

I dont understand why so many people are bothered by this at all you have your groups possibly linkshells containing people with similiar level of play so you dont interact with the "casuals" outside random DF dungeons.

Echo buff or not T5 still requires you to be able to deliver some reasonable level of play and that probably isnt going to make it pushover as some people think.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

People who want a challenge can still be a step ahead, while old content will be reduced so that other people can clear it. I would bet a large majority of players have not cleared turns 1-5 yet. A lower difficulty is exciting news, while the toughest free companies can be challenged by new content like turns 6-9.

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or they could clear it by the eventual outgearing and out leveling that would occur. What do you do when your lvl 11 and try your lvl 16 hunt log and die? You stop and come back in 3 levels.

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

or they could clear it by the eventual outgearing and out leveling that would occur. What do you do when your lvl 11 and try your lvl 16 hunt log and die? You stop and come back in 3 levels.

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Agreed. Every week you get a new i90 piece, which makes every content slightly easier. So every week you have a better chance of beating it. If you get to full i90 and still can't, then you dont need to be doing the newer runs until you can. Echo boost is a nerf on top of a nerf.

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Originally Posted by Kurai_Miu

Well there also removing the 1-5 lockout at 2.2 so free for all farm fest on that gear now it seems

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To what extent is it being removed? Can u just keep doing it over and over and get a piece every time? or is it like CT where you get one piece a week?

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Originally Posted by Vagdal

I enjoyed WoW model where you had Hard Modes to aim for at least it sort of doubled the amount of content.

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Leviathan Primal Battle (Hard and Extreme Modes)
The Amdapor Township Dungeon
The Binding Coil of Bahamut Extension
Thornmarch Extreme Mode
Brayflox’s Longstop Hard Mode
Halatali Hard Mode

They are adding HMs

Pardon me Putting up so much but while everyone complains about lack of content i know for a fact half of those saying so have not even looked up any information on future dungeons or any info on whats happening. At least do your homework first.

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Originally Posted by Kurai_Miu

Well there also removing the 1-5 lockout at 2.2 so free for all farm fest on that gear now it seems

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Will it be free-for-all, or will it have some modified CT rules where you can get 1 piece of loot per turn per week?

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Originally Posted by xblackfriday

To what extent is it being removed? Can u just keep doing it over and over and get a piece every time? or is it like CT where you get one piece a week?

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Yeah, what she said.

If it hasn't been said already... casual players... pay much money to play... good for SE.... stay in business.... new Turn 6-9.... new story..... casual player can't access cuz can't pass T5? ... no good... no subscribe.... no pay money.... Bad for SE...

Do you think SE develops video games so strange people like us can have fun or so SE can make money?

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Originally Posted by abzoluut

It's just that there is no reward in doing 'hard' content since with a patch, the people who are a bit behind will get a huge boost thus being at the same content you worked really hard for to do right away.

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It seems to me that to continuing to be top notch, players will have to keep working and win the new hard content (and grind it) before anybody else.
The ones who were one of the first to beat Coil, one of the first to have Allagan gear, etc. will not remain top players if they don't advance. It seems like they want to be forever the best players because in one moment of time they were, and also all have to know it because of their gear.

If you beat Coil you have a great sense of fulfilment, but to show off you need to grind Coil and finally obtain the gear (which is not the same thing.) Not that I think it's not good or normal, it's the way this games work. We all want the best gear, we all want to beat the difficult fights and obtain the drops. Everything is a step, you get better gear, win more difficult dungeons, earn better gear and cicle repeats.