Full STR WAR is nothing to write off.

http://i.imgur.com/6mESVTR.jpg

There you go 4.7k crit no Foe no Battle voice. Asc does have 4 stacks but thats only a 40% boost, so 3k with out it. Couldve easily been 5k+ with 20% from battle voiced Foe.

wtf lol... really?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paikis

That's the thing. That 1,300 damage hit on Inner Beast just healed the guy who did it for 3,900hp. About half his health. That is why STR gearing is a great idea on WAR and only an OK idea for a PLD... maybe... if you have enough HP.

Remember when Yoshi said that people were playing WAR wrong? THIS is what he meant. People keep trying to play the WAR like a PLD and are stacking huge amounts of HP at the expense of making their Inner Beasts worthless. 1200-2000hp healed every 20 seconds is a drop in the ocean. 2,000 to 4200 up to 4 times a minute though? Now we're talking. Interestingly enough, Storm's Path actually puts up some decent numbers when you have 450+ STR as well.

More strength not only gives you bigger heals, but also can add around 2% physical mitigation as well.

---

Yoshi also failed to realize how itemization works.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NightReach

http://i.imgur.com/6mESVTR.jpg

There you go 4.7k crit no Foe no Battle voice. Asc does have 4 stacks but thats only a 40% boost, so 3k with out it. Couldve easily been 5k+ with 20% from battle voiced Foe.

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So you hit about 1520~1600 crit Firega without all those buffs. Since 1k Inner Beast is possible outside of Coil and 4k Firega is not...well, that ends that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Yoshi also failed to realize how itemization works.

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Please expand on this, I'm interested.

Are you talking about how the Gryphonskin accessories can be melded to have more overall stats than the tanking gear?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paikis

Please expand on this, I'm interested.

Are you talking about how the Gryphonskin accessories can be melded to have more overall stats than the tanking gear?

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Well, look at how loots drop in Coil. Maiming/Strikes accessories which are loaded on strength, can't be need rolled by Warrior. Seems weird, no? If he intended for WAR to load up on STR, why not let them loot on STR accessories or even make STR/VIT acc specific for Warrior?

So VIT accessories are not best for Warrior, who is a tanking class. STR accessories are not supposed to be given to Warrior, who gain more health from self heal due to damage scaling. What kind of sick joke is that? "Be STR to get more self heal. Oh by the way, you're not supposed to *need* this STR item over other STR classes or healers or magic classes."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Yoshi also failed to realize how itemization works.



So you hit about 1520~1600 crit Firega without all those buffs. Since 1k Inner Beast is possible outside of Coil and 4k Firega is not...well, that ends that.

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Obviously u have no even been in T5... AS i have explained the damage is only 40%, 1k IB is only possible with Berzerk. If you knew how to do math Fire 3 (lol firega) without the buff is 3k and could easily been 3.6k with Bard.

Edit. I only posted the pic of a LS member cuz people dont believe 4k was possible. It is not only possible it is necessary for the most important fight in the game atm and that is that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NightReach

Obviously u have no even been in T5... AS i have explained the damage is only 40%, 1k IB is only possible with Berzerk. If you knew how to do math Fire 3 (lol firega) without the buff is 3k and could easily been 3.6k with Bard.

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So you're saying you do 3k firega on normal targets. I'd really like to know how you're doing double my damage.

On the side; the last number I recall on Ascle was 2938 non-crit with the same conditions you have in that screenshot. What does that translate to? 4407 crit. So, again, I'd love to know how to you do 3k outside of T5.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Exstal

So you're saying you do 3k firega on normal targets. I'd really like to know how you're doing double my damage.

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I dont know cuz I dont play BLM. I'm only proving a point. Maybe I would start by learning what my skill is called?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NightReach

I dont know cuz I dont play BLM. I'm only proving a point.

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You proved that on a specific mob you can hit 3k non-crit Firega. What you failed to realize is that 1k Inner Beast is possible outside of Coil.

http://i.imgur.com/1cGD4Ow.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ilPmO35.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Well, look at how loots drop in Coil. Maiming/Strikes accessories which are loaded on strength, can't be need rolled by Warrior. Seems weird, no? If he intended for WAR to load up on STR, why not let them loot on STR accessories or even make STR/VIT acc specific for Warrior?

So VIT accessories are not best for Warrior, who is a tanking class. STR accessories are not supposed to be given to Warrior, who gain more health from self heal due to damage scaling. What kind of sick joke is that? "Be STR to get more self heal. Oh by the way, you're not supposed to *need* this STR item over other STR classes or healers or magic classes."

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As a lancer/dragon I have not been able to "need" the scale armor that is gla/mrd/pld/war/lnc/drg

Lol I hit 1k butchers all the time on Titan with full vit which has much higher defense. I dont know what your eluding to. U pop just as much CD for warrior as a BLM. but BLM can do consistent 2.5k while u hit 1k every 90 sec if youre lucky.

Also OMG that target dummy .... SOOOO Strong.

Okay im not going to respond to you anymore, cuz you obviously havent tank anything past primals (and i highly doubt u MT titan, but maybe u had a godlike healer who knows). My original post was aimed at blm who dont #believe. So I guess l2P. But hey at least other ppl didnt bandwagon other class when warrior is underpowered and try to make something out of it, same cannot be said about u though. Though it doesnt seem youre too successful at those either.

479 INT - 1535 crit
337 STR - 848 crit

ok

Let me know how you'll make up 1500 damage with self buffs, pots.

I'm currently warrior at lvl 15. I couldnt find a clear answer and i dont want to start a new thread. How should i spend my points allotment? Should i spend it all on str or vit or mix it? please help a noob warrior. thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mjmonsada

I'm currently warrior at lvl 15. I couldnt find a clear answer and i dont want to start a new thread. How should i spend my points allotment? Should i spend it all on str or vit or mix it? please help a noob warrior. thanks!

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go full vit, if you itemize with DPS allegans/penta melded acc for end game if you want more damage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paikis

That's the thing. That 1,300 damage hit on Inner Beast just healed the guy who did it for 3,900hp. About half his health. That is why STR gearing is a great idea on WAR and only an OK idea for a PLD... maybe... if you have enough HP.

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Bad logic, because that 1300 damage crit is coming from someone who has popped Internal Releas/berserk/maim/SE.
In the event you're taking heavy spike damage, you pop Inner beast, but you dont have Internal nor Berserk up, your chances of getting the crit is low, and the actual damage output is going to be lower as well.
Furthermore, you're also relying on popping a strength pot on top of it, you're literally popping the equivalent of 3 cooldowns to do what a Paladin can do in only one.

3 cooldowns which are about a minute and 30, longer for the STR pot.

In the event you dont have Berserk up, it doesn't get that 40% damage bonus, so you've already cut the effective healing down significantly.
If you don't crit, that's another chunk of damage that isn't going into your inner beast.

It also assumes ALL of that healing is effective, that none of it is over healing.
Over healing is wasted healing.
If you are missing 1500 health, a 1300 crit from Inner beast is just as good as a 500 hit from Inner beast in terms of healing.

You're essentially trying to suggest that the best possible scenario will occur every single time when it isn't. Berserk/Internal Release are not going to be up for every Inner beast.
You're not gong to have a STR pot ready for every single one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paikis

Remember when Yoshi said that people were playing WAR wrong?

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Remember when Yoshi went back on what he said?
You're trying to dismiss all of the arguments by suggesting everyone is playing WAR wrong.
What about the people who gained the World First for completing BC?
Were they playing WAR wrong too?

Is it not possible that you are playing WAR wrong?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paikis

THIS is what he meant. People keep trying to play the WAR like a PLD and are stacking huge amounts of HP at the expense of making their Inner Beasts worthless.

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You do realize that the amount of HP gained, is higher than the amount of healing gained from Inner beast.
So if you've added 100 damage to your Inner beast, you've increased your healing by 300 from IB alone.
At the same time, you've given up 500+ your health.
Health that is ALWAYS there, and doesn't present itself only after you've been ht, and makes it harder to overheal.

He also took back what he said.

[QUOTE=Paikis;1656086]
1200-2000hp healed every 20 seconds is a drop in the ocean. 2,000 to 4200 up to 4 times a minute though? Now we're talking. Interestingly enough, Storm's Path actually puts up some decent numbers when you have 450+ STR as well.[/quot]

Sorry but...this does not sound right.
How is 45 strength turning your 400 inner beast, into an inner beast for 666?
30 strength alone just buffs your inner beast by about 100 or so, so should it not be around 160 or so as a gain instead of a 266 change?

Furthermore, Storm's path healing is terrible period. Its...not good at all, your HP pool increases more quickly than your damage does as a tank by far.

Let alone that your healing is significantly outpaced by the incoming damage.
You can check by doing ANY content from level 35 and up.
Your Inner beast becomes less capable of covering the damage, because the damage coming in, scales much more quickly than the 300% multiplier from inner beast.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paikis

More strength not only gives you bigger heals, but also can add around 2% physical mitigation as well.

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No it doesn't.
Its significantly smaller.

I believe the calculation for 25% parry for 25% mitigation is about 11% mitigation.
When you increase that mitigation to 27% it increases the overall mitigation 12%.
So a 1% change in terms of mitigation.

I will assume I did it wrong though and do it differently since i believe Gamemako said it was
.25 x.25 = .0625 = 6.25%
So .25 x .27 = 6.75%

SO a .5% mitigation increase.
We'll assume i did it right the first time since its a nicer number.

On the other hand, assuming a WAR is at 8k with gryphon skin, and gains about 375 hp with Fending is about a 4% increase in health.

So its higher than the 2% mitigation you suggested, the 1% increased mitigation I suggested, and the .05% mitigation from the second calculation I did.
Which I probably did wrong.


The issue with your argument is that you are considering an entirely different base to begin with, you're assuming well, best case scenario.
Which doesn't really work out in practice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paikis

Remember when Yoshi said that people were playing WAR wrong? THIS is what he meant. People keep trying to play the WAR like a PLD and are stacking huge amounts of HP at the expense of making their Inner Beasts worthless. 1200-2000hp healed every 20 seconds is a drop in the ocean. 2,000 to 4200 up to 4 times a minute though? Now we're talking. Interestingly enough, Storm's Path actually puts up some decent numbers when you have 450+ STR as well.

---

First off, Yoshi explained that he intended IB to used with Infuriate to mitigate spike damage. HE EXPLICITLY STATED THIS. So Yoshi did not intend 4 IB, and you are in no way healing 2k to 4200 4 times a minute. Second, the STR v VIT debate has been going on FOREVER, and the reason the argument fails is that a 3k IB does you absolutely no good unless you have the HP to take the hit in the first place. And stacking physical mitigation through itemization makes you worse at tanking magical damage (because the only way you have to survive magical damage pre 2.1 IS HP.Hence why your other post is also erroneous, as not only does the IB change make you better at tanking multiple targets, it makes you better for tanking magical damage *even if you choose to stat STR*.

BTW, remember when Yoshi said people were playing WAR wrong, then turned around and said that they were buffing WAR because they weren't able to survive things that PLD could (even when wearing superior gear), which is everyone playing WAR had been saying since Titan?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NightReach

Lol I hit 1k butchers all the time on Titan with full vit which has much higher defense. I dont know what your eluding to. U pop just as much CD for warrior as a BLM. but BLM can do consistent 2.5k while u hit 1k every 90 sec if youre lucky.

Also OMG that target dummy .... SOOOO Strong.

Okay im not going to respond to you anymore, cuz you obviously havent tank anything past primals (and i highly doubt u MT titan, but maybe u had a godlike healer who knows). My original post was aimed at blm who dont #believe. So I guess l2P. But hey at least other ppl didnt bandwagon other class when warrior is underpowered and try to make something out of it, same cannot be said about u though. Though it doesnt seem youre too successful at those either.

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There is no L2P about it - I am fully in i90 gear with BLM, with a lot of my gear aimed at Determination. In party, I have 510 Intelligence and 275 Determination. As I said, I hit in the 1,500 - 1,600 range (most recent one was 1,548) with a critical Fire III, in Astral Heat III, and I'm sorry, there's no way to go more than a tiny bit higher without cooldowns or other factors. Your BLM friend will confirm that he's not hitting 2.5K normally by any means, he will be hitting 1K with his Fire III normally like the rest of us.

Your original example was a 1K IB vs a 4K Fire III, which is a normal situation for 1K IB vs a situation for Fire III with the highest damage in the game possible, the snake debuffs. You have to compare them in the same situation - with the debuff on the snakes (which is way, way more than +40% damage BTW), a WAR will be hitting 3K or so with a critical IB.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NightReach

Lol I hit 1k butchers all the time on Titan with full vit which has much higher defense. I dont know what your eluding to. U pop just as much CD for warrior as a BLM. but BLM can do consistent 2.5k while u hit 1k every 90 sec if youre lucky.

Also OMG that target dummy .... SOOOO Strong.

Okay im not going to respond to you anymore, cuz you obviously havent tank anything past primals (and i highly doubt u MT titan, but maybe u had a godlike healer who knows). My original post was aimed at blm who dont #believe. So I guess l2P. But hey at least other ppl didnt bandwagon other class when warrior is underpowered and try to make something out of it, same cannot be said about u though. Though it doesnt seem youre too successful at those either.

---

I actually got someone with the "Main Class: MARAUDER Lv 50".

Though in case you missed it, L2P?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mjmonsada

I'm currently warrior at lvl 15. I couldnt find a clear answer and i dont want to start a new thread. How should i spend my points allotment? Should i spend it all on str or vit or mix it? please help a noob warrior. thanks!

---

I initially went STR while leveling. Partly because more damage while leveling = killing stuff slightly faster = faster exp (and the extra Vit should not be needed at all while leveling), but also because I'm a fan of mitigation over pure HP as a tank. STR improves parry (thus helping you tank better). Unfortunately, the mitigation gains from STR are just too minor compared to the amount of HP you get at 50 from going full Vit.

I eventually used the Grand Company item to respec (it's per class btw, 10k seals doesn't let you respec them all at once) into Vit once I started doing WP speed runs with friends (aka, something that actually tested our gear levels a bit if we pulled enough stuff). Pure Vit is the safe option. If you put points anywhere else, you should have a specific idea of why you're putting those points into other stats.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paikis

That's the thing. That 1,300 damage hit on Inner Beast just healed the guy who did it for 3,900hp. About half his health. That is why STR gearing is a great idea on WAR and only an OK idea for a PLD... maybe... if you have enough HP.

---

Breaking 1200 requires insane DPS gearing and STR pot. The highest reasonable average shot heals for 1500 or so with Maim and Storm's Eye up (1.25 damage per potency). You get about 41% more out of Berserk and 50% on crit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paikis

People keep trying to play the WAR like a PLD and are stacking huge amounts of HP at the expense of making their Inner Beasts worthless. 1200-2000hp healed every 20 seconds is a drop in the ocean. 2,000 to 4200 up to 4 times a minute though? Now we're talking.

---

There is not enough gear in the game to boost damage that much. Full ilvl90 VIT vs. full STR is 20% damage or so (22.2% according to Valk's formula) -- that includes allocation and accessories to pure STR from pure VIT. This is a difference of 1400 HP as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paikis

More strength not only gives you bigger heals, but also can add around 2% physical mitigation as well.

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Gryphonskin with 45 strength and 45 dex adds about 1% total mitigation. If you went full STR and gained 1% mitigation out of it, you'd be behind for all cases less than 1000 incoming DPS due to the difference in passive regeneration alone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NightReach

Lol I hit 1k butchers all the time on Titan with full vit which has much higher defense.

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Enemies do not have defense of any kind, nor does VIT add defense. I'm not certain what is meant here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

Breaking 1200 requires insane DPS gearing and STR pot. The highest reasonable average shot heals for 1500 or so with Maim and Storm's Eye up (1.25 damage per potency). You get about 41% more out of Berserk and 50% on crit.

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The highest reasonable minimum heals for that yes. I agree with your numbers here, i disagree about requiring insane STR gearing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

Gryphonskin with 45 strength and 45 dex adds about 1% total mitigation. If you went full STR and gained 1% mitigation out of it, you'd be behind for all cases less than 1000 incoming DPS due to the difference in passive regeneration alone.

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Everyone always forgets passive regen. I don't consider the mitigation gain to be the main reason for taking the STR though, the main reason is Inner Beast. That and making easy-mode threat even easier, allowing me to use Storm's Path more often.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paikis

That's the thing. That 1,300 damage hit on Inner Beast just healed the guy who did it for 3,900hp. About half his health. That is why STR gearing is a great idea on WAR and only an OK idea for a PLD... maybe... if you have enough HP.

---

Breaking 1200 requires insane DPS gearing and STR pot. The highest reasonable average shot heals for 1500 or so with Maim and Storm's Eye up (1.25 damage per potency). You get about 41% more out of Berserk and 50% on crit.

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1200 hit => 3600 heal
500 hit => 1500 heal

Assuming you geared Warrior like you would a normal tank
369 STR (50 less than your current) and 534 VIT (50 more than your current). Which is closer to 420 hit with just Maim and SE.

I've already tested this amount so it's much more reasonable than how you chose to gear yourself.

Proof

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Exstal

369 STR (50 less than your current) and 534 VIT (50 more than your current). Which is closer to 420 hit with just Maim and SE.

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If you wear Gryphonskin accessories and allocate VIT, you will have 410 strength before party bonus. Beyond that is going to be rehash of the Gryphonskin vs. Allagan debate we've all seen 4000 times. Your hit is with 352 strength and an ilvl80 Bravura. You will get the remainder of the 500 damage from the elements I have pointed out.

//EDIT: Removed myself repeating what Extal had already said. Whoops.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OmegaSinX

It's also worth noting that it easier to make up for lost VIT (Food+Party Buff) Than it is to make up for lost STR (No food buffs STR that I know of).

Bottom line, Although VIT is the safer choice. I highly reccomend that people try Full STR + Grypho on Warrior. With 2.1 around the corner, I think STR WAR's will be more common.

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'It's easier to make up for lost vit'.

You have no idea what you're talking about..making up for lost vit. You SHOULDNT be losing vit, you can never get enough vit. Healers will laugh at your second rate huge cooldowns heal, or your amazing bloodbath healing you for 50 every whopping 2.5 second global cooldown. 'Boosting Second Wind' rofl.

Just no. If you have to make up for losing vit, you are most likely not outgearing the content, just doing it wrong. And if you bothered to check about 2.1 you'd see this would only get weaker.

But ok after all that you put one little sentence 'oh i think vit will still be better..or wait let me say 'safer''.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Menta

WAR´s do WP speed run faster than PLD in 2.0

WAR agro packs with damage and PLD do most of the AoE agro with flash + some scorn.
There is no way a PLD can do it faster

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Holy > Over Power

@ Megido
It's easier to make up for VIT with food then if you wanted a bit more STR. With buffs you can self heal 80-100 HP per mob per Overpower. So generally 400-480 per GCD in big pulls. Without gearing at all for STR it would be closer to 50-60 HP per mob or 300 per GCD

Reason why I said Vit will be more appealing to warriors come 2.1 is because of Inner Beast changes. However, there are some might debate that we now turn to Storm Path for our healing needs, which in best case scenario is only performed once every 10 seconds, only heals about 140HP now with Gryphonskins, Probably 145 HP when Allagan Axe gets bumped to ilvl 95. It is still way far from being able to replace the 200% Inner Beast which should be around 600 HP heal lost, which can be performed every 20 seconds.

That would give it a 310HP heal difference, if you want to look at it deeper we might have to drop Storm Eye all together, if you dont you can expect Storm Path every 20 seconds, which would make the variance be 460HP. This is the reason why I expect STR purely in the for of stat allocation will be more detrimental postpatch. With that said, still I believe Gryphonskin has a place in current content as BiS gear until new harder hitting content is released where that 400 HP will make a difference between surviving and feasting on dirt. You should expect to have around close to 430 STR without STR allocation in Party with Gryphonskins and other equips being ilvl 90.

Vit has always been more appealing to WARs when it came to allocation.
=\

After doing a lot of thinking and research I personally decided that post 2.1, with all the mitigation buffs War will be receiving, the crafted dps accessories melded with vit and parry are far superior for both tanks. I've begun building my set, got the earring done, 4 more to go!

I'm obviously going to keep my coil i90accessories, but the additional damage, parry/block amount, and parry chance make it worth it for a cost of around 400 hps.

I'll still be allocating 30 points into vit, I'll just be using the dps crafted accessories and switch to BC accessories when/if ever necessary.

Ya...wrong topic....please continue.....my apologies.....