Summoner - The whining needs to stop.

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Originally Posted by Kage3000

constantly being asked to focus on a single target by Tanks that don't know how to maintain aggro on more than 1 mob or healers that don't know they have more than 1 healing spell at their disposal.

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welcome to duty finder.

i will sadly say that i am somewhat in that boat of tanks that complain, but i only ask my smns wait a few seconds for me to get actual threat, but im also a pld tank. most enmity generated on pld is single target ws, rage of halone to be exact. i would say its more of a balance thats needed, some smns need to wait about 1 or 2 actions before they break out that aoe dots.

as smn no one ever asked me to hold my dots to a single target, and i use all including shadow flare and miasma 2, on trash, btw every time i pick a tanker that doesn't hold agro, i simple stack with him and keep monster together, never a healer let me die this way, but i also evade from possible ground atks, i think u guys are the ones whining...

If u pull agro, and start running around, them u must die, and i don't blame any healer for let it happens, since when u run, tanker has 2 options, lose the agro remain to outer dps/healer to get urs back, keep the monster still on him and let u kite to death.

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Originally Posted by Kage3000

Obviously there are going to be SOME exceptions to this but can we just get some better players and less whiners?

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I'm just blown away that OP has 27 likes when this is the core argument.

"I don't need to slow down or match my DPS to the tank's hate, everyone else just needs to stop sucking".

lollogic

I am with and against the OP. If you have a bad tank you have a bad tank and should be prepared to not spread. However, Speading and even with SF up a flash once in a while is more than enough. Plus Spreading and SF do not wake up mobs so that isn't an argument either.

Spreading Dots doesn't pull enough hate that flash isn't enough to keep hate. But some PLDs just refuse to use it enough.

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Originally Posted by warren-ragnarok

i will sadly say that i am somewhat in that boat of tanks that complain, but i only ask my smns wait a few seconds for me to get actual threat, but im also a pld tank. most enmity generated on pld is single target ws, rage of halone to be exact. i would say its more of a balance thats needed, some smns need to wait about 1 or 2 actions before they break out that aoe dots.

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See, that's reasonable. It's also one of the reasons I tend to open with shadowflare. It's one of our longest cast spells giving tanks time to gather hate. If the tank is equally geared I should have to work my ass off to pull hate off of a tank. I've only ever done this to an FC member playing a tank. Was mostly done just because we where horsing around and I was looking to make his job difficult.

I agree, I've had a lot of bad tanks who can't hold hate on more than one target and I've resigned myself to stop. Better to lose out on dps than to wipe the party multiple times.

A general rule for ANY dps class though is to give the tank a couple seconds before you attack, 2-3 hits or so. The people that attack the second the tank has hit once drive me insane and I'm not even a tank. "Obviously you have aggro Mr. DPS, your attacks do 10x the damage of the Paladin, and his first hit doesn't even generate enmity!" Give it 2 seconds and chill, don't need to go max dps the second you lay your eyes on the enemy. It will make the tank happy, the healer happy, and the DPS happy when they don't get whacked, and the run will go just as quickly, if not quicker.

As a black mage, I know just where the limit is for the tank to hold agro off AoE. And I gotta say, its after the third flare in a row on a WP pull. Not even a relic tank can hold that off me. It goes something like this Fire 3, swiftcast, flare, convert, flare, mega-ether, flare, transpose, dead. Thats about it, I just wanted to brag about my tripple flare. carry on.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

It is almost completely impossible for a paladin (not sure about warriors) to hold sustained max AoE (esp with thunder Dotting as well) vs a relic+1 summoner.

The damage numbers are just too high.

So...I mean, people need to remember that they're working in a team here.

You are not the best dps in the world, you aren't proving anything by baning all the time.

If your tank wants you to stop, stop! What do you get by antagonizing your group lol. The point is to get through whatever run you're doing, and especially new tanks or pug tanks or people you haven't worked with all have their own idea of how they want to play the game.

So yes, the whining does need to stop, and it is YOUR whining.

Your team is a team. Work with them. If you're refusing to cooperate, you are the problem, regardless of how fast or how much damage you think you do.

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That's all folks.

As a note, on PUG dungeons, tank also dont know if group is going to sleep, AE, etc... so most times he spend first combats watching dps's enmity, to acomodate tanking stile (at least its what i do)... whining on tanks, its a funny sport that almost all ppl practice... funiest even when one DPS focus on 1 target, the other on other, and healer is trying to keep all em alive generating tones of enmity.

Team play FTW. (u need tank keep agroo on multiple targets?... have u tryed to tell him before combat?... or just bane the hell out, and whining about the useless tank cuouldnt keep the agroo? ... i'll bet on it, nm)

on the other hand... i've seen amazing useless tanks!!! im just trying to not be the worst :)

Obviously it boils down to this: Some tanks are bad. There are two ways to handle this: Do what you can to make your run go more smoothly or Be petty and probably die a lot. I'm a Scholar that LOVES to pretend that I'm a summoner. Eos can main heal and 4 man except the last stretch of Amdapor Keep, and so I spend most of my runs primarily in Clerics Stance dotting the world. And Sometimes my tanks can't keep up with my damage. What do I do? I ease off the damage on additional targets a little (by cutting dots. Either not using Miasma II, or Bane-ing with only two of my dots up, etc) until we find a comfortable spot where I'm still dealing considerable damage and not tanking everything myself.

If the tank is SO bad that I can't keep up two basic dots on everything, I suggest that they use their AOE threat moves more. This sometimes works. And sometimes they refuse. (At which point I become petty again and afk faerie-only heal while watching anime for the 40 minute run that this inevitably means.) What I don't do is keep nuking everything all out and hoping for my tank to keep up. If s/he obviously can't or won't, then there's nothing that can be done. Tanks have instant queues, the rest of us don't, unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by Farmer

As a black mage, I know just where the limit is for the tank to hold agro off AoE. And I gotta say, its after the third flare in a row on a WP pull. Not even a relic tank can hold that off me. It goes something like this Fire 3, swiftcast, flare, convert, flare, mega-ether, flare, transpose, dead. Thats about it, I just wanted to brag about my tripple flare. carry on.

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Our fc blm was giddy when he first figured out that flare rotation.