Multiple Classes is a lie

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Originally Posted by NaruWhitehelm

OK, So you get what you want you are able to gear out ALL of your jobs however fast you want, and of course your a pro so you do this very quickly. Then What? Grind the "Current" Endgame till next patch? probably not why would you? Just to pay a repair? you have nothing left to do. So they need to Quickly release new content for the 20-40 people that finished in 2 months? and KEEP doing this every two months so you will be happy and the game is "Perfect". Only problem is about 400,000 other players are not you.

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Don't forget to add 'come to forums and QQ about how easy the game is and how boring it is while trying to get things nerfed so no one else has the same opportunity'.

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Originally Posted by TheRac25

i missed the part where anyone asked for this

people are asking for more content (extrememly cheap to implement i might add), how is this bad, how does this effect you?

or maybe you posted without reading

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This is not what this thread is about lol.. seriously go back under your bridge

cheap content additions? Lol what derp world do you live in?

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Originally Posted by TheRac25

i missed the part where anyone asked for this

people are asking for more content (extrememly cheap to implement i might add), how is this bad, how does this effect you?

or maybe you posted without reading

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Are we reading the same thread? I see people asking to remove or raise the myth cap and remove Coil lockouts so they can spam raid and gear up quickly for all jobs.

pretty easy fix that would instantly create a buttload of endgame content, two birds one stone

per class myths, ie tomes of conjury (whatever you got the idea, if you didnt go back to pre-highschool english)
existing generic tomes -> currency exchange npc 1:1 new tomes of your choice
other details should be obvious, 300 cap per week per tome type, only useable on class specific gear, only earned while on specific class

the raid lockout problem is a bit more complex, if they made the bosses only drop loot useable by classes currently in the instance and made them only attainable by classes that could equip them, only then would a class specific raid lockout begin to make sense

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

:mad:

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You are quite poisonous you know that? You're assuming a lot of things when you don't know anything for certain. I doubt they will lock out CT considering Coil is in a league of it's own. The gear from there being on par with AF2. Oh and God forbid you compete with others for loot. As if you don't have time to do that... which you do.

Personally most of the stuff you post is really damn negative. You continue to bitch yet still shovel money at something you have a love hate relationship with.. You make zero sense, And goes right back to a post I read here. "This meal is horrible may I have another!"

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Originally Posted by C-croft

Are we reading the same thread? I see people asking to remove or raise the myth cap and remove Coil lockouts so they can spam raid and gear up quickly for all jobs.

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people simply want to do on one charactor what they can allready do on multiple charactors, the point being that having to use multiple charactors to do this makes the multi classes per charator a somewhat pointless gimick

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Originally Posted by TheRac25

pretty easy fix that would instantly create a buttload of endgame content, two birds one stone

per class myths, ie tomes of conjury (whatever you got the idea, if you didnt go back to pre-highschool english)
existing generic tomes -> currency exchange npc 1:1 new tomes of your choice

the raid lockout problem is a bit more complex, if they made the bosses only drop loot useable by classes currently in the instance and made them only attainable by classes that could equip them, only then would a class specific raid lockout begin to make sense

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None of these fix the issues currently existing. Just stop trying. You might hurt yourself

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Originally Posted by TheRac25

people simply want to do on one charactor what they can allready do on multiple charactors, the point being that having to use multiple charactors to do this makes the multi classes per charator a somewhat pointless gimick

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Lol funny how you are so quick to denounce other peoples education and then spell "charactors" smh

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Originally Posted by Raiz_Cineris

Lol funny how you are so quick to denounce other peoples education and then spell "charactors" smh

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yes becuse my typo invalidates everything i said, your douche skill rises 0.1

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Originally Posted by Raiz_Cineris

None of these fix the issues currently existing. Just stop trying. You might hurt yourself

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care to elaborate? or are you just a troll

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Originally Posted by TheRac25

yes becuse my typo invalidates everything i said, your douche skill rises 0.1

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Then I guess "gimick" was a typo as well. I think 3rd pd english is about to start. You had best be on your way, you are gonna be late.

The myth cap requires 8 amdapor runs, which takes me about 300 minutes (5 hours) per week.
If it were a per-job cap, and not per character, then someone who wants to cap two jobs for instance would take about 10 hours per week.

I don't see how it is impatient to want that, since that person would be working twice as much for her gear, so it makes perfect sense she could gear up two jobs. I don't see why I should deny others the will to play twice, thrice more than me, if that's what they want.

Why deny that it would be a nice change to have a per-job myth cap and Coil lockouts? How would it change anything for those who just want to gear one job, like me? Why should I deny that the only way to achieve that, currently, is to make a second character and ignore the armory system altogether?

Furthermore, you can't customise your main job, so once you're done leveling your sub-class (usually 34 or so), and your other complementary class (usually 26 or so), then there's absolutely no benefit whatsoever to do any more leveling on this character, regarding its main job's efficiency.

I don't get what's to defend here, since these are facts; I don't get what's to refuse either, since it would still require the exact same time to gear each job, just on the same character. I think it even fits pretty well the vision that's advertised with the game: one character to do everything. Currently, it's just not the case.

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Originally Posted by Blazer

FFXI took months to get your first 75, not 2 days of Abyssea... I mean FATE grinding.

The issue is that with FFXIV you are not in control of how fast you go.

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That is a steaming pile of BS. If you CHOOSE to FATE grind, that is your choice. But YOU are in control of how fast you level your character. No one can make you power level, you chose that for yourself. So don't blame the game, the game maker or anything else for your own play choices.

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Originally Posted by Raiz_Cineris

Then I guess "gimick" was a typo as well. I think 3rd pd english is about to start. You had best be on your way, you are gonna be late.

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troll confrimed
specious attacks are the last resort of someone without an argument
by all means please contune making yourself look like an asshat

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

I assume crystal tower will have 1 week lock outs as well, also the fact it's 24 players so you're rolling around 5-11 other players every time loot drops ._.

I don't see crystal tower fixing this problem, AT ALL. I also assume PVP gear will be time-gated and use the same model as mythology tomes so we'll only be able to gear a single class in PVP per X months.

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I've highlighted the problems with that counter-argument for you. You don't really have a clue about how the CT will or won't improve the situation but are willing to assume it won't just so you can continue to complain.

FYI the CT is in the duty finder which makes it very unlikely to have a lockout of any kind. Yoshi-P has already said it's the 'casual' endgame. On top of that those 24 players are also going to be splitting into three different parties tackling different bosses simultaneously... so that's actually the same loot/player ratio that we currently have in 8-mans. The fact you know nothing of this only highlights the fact that you seem to be looking for excuses to complain rather than enter into a constructive discussion.

Now factor in that CT drops ilvl80 gear which will be MORE than enough to tackle BCoB and suddenly all your jobs can easily be geared for endgame without any time-limited caps or lockouts.

The purpose of the myth tome cap is not to slow progression but to simply stop you from reaching the very top before they can add a higher tier. ilvl90 gear is not actually necessary to progress in the game (or at least won't be once we have ilvl80). The only reason people are clamouring for the AF2 stuff is because it's needed for the later turns of BCoB due to the currently missing tier. When content requiring ilvl100 gear is released SE will make ilvl90 gear easier to obtain. This is how they did things in XI. New content was ALWAYS heavily gated or restricted whilst older content was made easier to allow players to catch up and start working on the new stuff. Hell all MMOs work on that concept.

The problem here is simply the missing ilvl80 tier combined with a belief that you NEED ilvl90 gear to progress. You don't need it yet, not until the next tier is added and by then it'll be easier to get (they have already stated this).

Now I guess you'll ignore my post whilst suggesting everyone that disagrees with you (myself included) has no clue about any of this... Go ahead. I think most people reading this thread are quite capable of judging the better argument for themselves.

Two months into the game and people are complaining about getting some of the best gear in the game......on an alt job? Good lord.

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Originally Posted by Phogg

Two months into the game and people are complaining about getting some of the best gear in the game......on an alt job? Good lord.

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How does this impact you? If people want to play twice as much, why should others care? If we can satisfy everyone, with different expectations, different playstyles, how is that not better for the game and the community overall?

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Originally Posted by Alcyon_Densetsu

How does this impact you? If people want to play twice as much, why should others care? If we can satisfy everyone, with different expectations, different playstyles, how is that not better for the game and the community overall?

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No one will ever be satisfied.

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Originally Posted by Alcyon_Densetsu

How does this impact you? If people want to play twice as much, why should others care? If we can satisfy everyone, with different expectations, different playstyles, how is that not better for the game and the community overall?

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How do you expect to do that in a game in a genre predicated on creating an atmosphere of infinite gameplay (often through artificial time sinks) when everyone wants all the best gear in two months? These complaints have nothing to do with playing twice as much, they have to do with wanting the best gear for a singular component of a broad game RIGHT NOW, mainly battle classes, and getting mad for some really strange reason because it takes longer then you want. Silly.

A lie? What, then, are all these multiple classes I have?

The game is supposed to take months to play, the restrictions are in place to KEEP you from spamming all the content quickly, they aren't going to change those restrictions, maybe just chill a bit?

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Originally Posted by Alcyon_Densetsu

How does this impact you? If people want to play twice as much, why should others care? If we can satisfy everyone, with different expectations, different playstyles, how is that not better for the game and the community overall?

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It doesn't harm or affect anyone in a negative way. All it does is make the game more enjoyable for more people and a better game overall. That's what's so confusing, people arguing against this and defending coil lock out timers and myth tome caps when doing changes to make it so all jobs have their own myth tome cap and every job can enter coil per week or no cap on coil and just loot lock outs, so you're able to gear up jobs just as quick on a single character as making a new character for each job, does nothing negative to impact ANYONE, it is simply making the game MUCH MUCH better. Why is it so hard to understand that the game's main defining feature - the armory system, should allow you to play and gear all jobs on one character just as quickly and easily as making another character for every job, as advertised?

It's like these people who keep saying "You just want easymode! Quick and easy gearing all your jobs in two months! Whine less!" don't understand you can make another character for every job you want to level and do exactly that, the problem is the armory system is being ignored and not utilized at all.

Not sure what's so hard to comprehend about that. It's just, baffling, INCREDIBLY baffling.

There's literally no point in the armory system's existence at the level cap for battle jobs, that needs fixed and almost all of the dev's attention.

Please stop arguing against things that will make the game more enjoyable for more people and have no affect on people who don't need it.


edit: Also, if you do not understand the issue at hand, please read this thread to understand it properly before forming an opinion on it, PLEASE. Thank you.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ory-job-system.

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Originally Posted by TheRac25

yes becuse my typo invalidates everything i said, your douche skill rises 0.1

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No, but your condescending attitude does. Not saying your quoted was much better, but perhaps you should read and quote things in the full context. NaruWhitehelm made a point, and you intentionally took it, chopped it, and proceeded to be a jerk. You are capping your DOU skill for the week.

As for your ideas, still not good enough. Your idea to make different sets/class of tomes is a gimmick. Not only that, what if I don't want to play a mage, why does the next guy get two sets of tomes when I am pigeon holed into one set(Hypothetical)?

Also, your idea does not create content. No one's idea in this thread creates content. They are trying to justify gearing up and maxing out faster than the current rate for all/some characters. The only thing this will do is enable you to experience existing content sooner than later, and make it far easier to accomplish said experience. Essentially going with the overgear approach. Sometimes it is a lack of skill and the gear helps buffer mistake ridden players, and some have the I want it now attitude.

I would prefer to see a bump to cap of 500. This will allow one piece a week so you feel like you are doing something, but still keep it slow.

As far as lockouts, I think it is fine as is. Until CT comes out, we can't really judge things anyway. CT being the missing link, it should probably be factored in to the whole gearing of alternate jobs before jumping into any conclusions yet.

Did I elaborate enough for you? Or will you quote one line and ask me if I even understand what is happening?

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Originally Posted by Phogg

How do you expect to do that in a game in a genre predicated on creating an atmosphere of infinite gameplay (often through artificial time sinks) when everyone wants all the best gear in two months? These complaints have nothing to do with playing twice as much, they have to do with wanting the best gear for a singular component of a broad game RIGHT NOW, mainly battle classes, and getting mad for some really strange reason because it takes longer then you want. Silly.

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I think you didn't read the requests in this thread properly. It's not about having it "now", it about being able to gear several jobs on a single character.

As I explained in my previous post, there is no impatience whatsoever in wanting to work on several classes. It's called "rerolling" and implies that a player has to put the exact same amount of time into each of her "rerolls" or "alts". I do 5h/week for 1 job, if people want to do 10h/week for 2 jobs, then there is no "shorter path" involved. furthermore, their "main job", the most advanced, still requires exactly the same amount of time (IRL, months; and IG, 5h/week + coil runs) to obtain the gear, since caps are still in place.

Also, and I say this very humbly, you shouldn't confuse the lore (FF etc.) with reality (running a MMORPG with clearly identified players expectations found in every other MMO, etc.) Your idealism is touching, but that "atmosphere of infinite gameplay" is just PR/lore/fiction. We're talking about game mechanics and progression management. Whether it's sci-fi or fantasy, with a great atmosphere or not, has pretty much nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I don't get mad. You seem pretty agitated and condescending (calling others" silly"), though. And you still haven't told us how it impacted you that others want to play twice as much.

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Originally Posted by Alcyon_Densetsu

How does this impact you? If people want to play twice as much, why should others care? If we can satisfy everyone, with different expectations, different playstyles, how is that not better for the game and the community overall?

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yes, people should be able to do what they want and then not be restricted by in game mechanics that don't allow them to do that, I understand this. But the fact of the matter is that most people don't have that stuff yet and get irked by hearing others complain and flood the forums about stuff like this. Furthermore... the sensationalist thread title makes the whole claim ridiculous. Once iLvl 80 gear comes out, this whole argument becomes buy estupido

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

It doesn't harm or affect anyone in a negative way. All it does is make the game more enjoyable for more people and a better game overall. That's what's so confusing, people arguing against this and defending coil lock out timers and myth tome caps when doing changes to make it so all jobs have their own myth tome cap and every job can enter coil per week or no cap on coil and just loot lock outs, so you're able to gear up jobs just as quick on a single character as making a new character for each job, does nothing negative to impact ANYONE, it is simply making the game MUCH MUCH better. Why is it so hard to understand that the game's main defining feature - the armory system, should allow you to play and gear all jobs on one character just as quickly and easily as making another character for every job, as advertised?

It's like these people who keep saying "You just want easymode! Quick and easy gearing all your jobs in two months! Whine less!" don't understand you can make another character for every job you want to level and do exactly that, the problem is the armory system is being ignored and not utilized at all.

Not sure what's so hard to comprehend about that. It's just, baffling, INCREDIBLY baffling.

There's literally no point in the armory system's existence at the level cap for battle jobs, that needs fixed and almost all of the dev's attention.

edit: Also, if you do not understand the issue at hand, please read this thread to understand it properly before forming an opinion on it, PLEASE. Thank you.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ory-job-system.

Please stop arguing against things that will make the game more enjoyable for more people and have no affect on people who don't need it.

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I don't understand why you cannot accept the fact that the game is designed to time sink you. You do in fact still have the option to run multiple characters per server. Why don't you go ahead and do so? You have already listed the perks for doing so, and you are unable to wait for the easing of content caps and want it right now so go get it right now. On a second character. In here you want to gear other jobs, but in the link, you want to go into coil, just to play a different job with no possibility of loot? In some ways I see what you mean, but let's make sure we try and stay on topic. And you can't say the armory system is ignored and not utilized at all. You are ignoring the time sink and its purpose and want it changed to suit your needs as opposed to how SE designed it. I will agree 300 tomes is a small amount and a bump in cap would be nice. However, the game still allows you to do what you need to. You just can't max gear everything right away, and the lockout exists as it stands to be the time sink it needs to be. Gearing up multiple characters will still take longer than doing jobs on one character in a sense that you will have to hit 50, make sure you have your cross classes, and complete everything in game. Plus making sure you even have the skill to play your jobs will be nice as well.

OP It is like you are being purposely moronic, here's some actual information for you in regards to gearing and lies, which is all you have done with you verbal diarrhea because let's face it that's the only intelligent thing that can be said from your post.


I have geared 3-4 classes in full dl accessories and only one class with mythology and coil gear, as it is right now the design of the game allows for that type of gearing, which is the best gear possible to access endgame content, there are a plethora of ways of obtaining it and no one will argue that someone with relic and full dl isn't capable or useful for Coil. so you point is null, you want the best gear there it is, in any other game you gear first the one character and then start from "scratch" and then you take the same time gearing it up, here whilst you play with your MAIN class you can effectively gear other classes. gearing one or more classes with rare gear it's even easier if you run a static or with your FC on something like coil (which i don't see why you would want to do it any other way) you take in 8 people from whom are all going expectedly in their best performance job, clear let's say floor 1-4 and from that gear chances are drops are going to fall that aren't mean for any of the jobs already there, if you have a secondary class already geared with relic in which you are competent you can greed for it against others essentially gearing a class, whilst clearing content with another.


Adding to this there is going to be Crystal Tower which will be easy enough to clear through duty finder, which will drop gear lvl 80 which will essentially gear your secondary classes and here's the kicker the only content that is being locked are the maximum gear lvl 90 which SHOULD NOT be easy to obtain, why because god forbid something takes effort in this game.

Your problem is not that the gearing multiple class play is impossible. I'm fairly satisfied with 4 classes i have geared so far they have the best gear for the uses they have and they are competent on any content to date, and the gear they have will also be relevant to help me clearing newer content from which i will gear them with better equipment, while i keep gearing my warrior and paladin, which are my MAIN classes, with top notch gear to spearhead the toughest content. I'm satisfied with this, so is any player with any common sense, you on the other hand are just a spoiled ass with the twitter/facebook mentality where you think anyone should and wants to listen to anything that you have to say.

When in fact all you are trying to say is i have no patience i do not want to work for anything and i just want everything the moment i say it so i can say i'm the best that is a biased useless opinion. nothing more nothing else certainly not something to waste forum space for.

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Originally Posted by Felis

In this game specs are called jobs. Multi jobs are coming, the Arcanist is a prototyp for this.

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Do you get migranes using those glasses? I feel cross-eyed just looking at your photo. :P

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Originally Posted by C-croft

I don't understand why you cannot accept the fact that the game is designed to time sink you.

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Denial is pretty powerful in this genre, I mean it's OBVIOUSLY a time-sink designed due to lack of content and the fact people seem to think it's impossible to gear multiple jobs on one character because it takes time is just...silly. Honestly, it's a time sink and nothing more - nothing in this game is impossible in current design - the only thing impossible is if you have zero patience and want everything now and you can't get that.

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Originally Posted by Alcyon_Densetsu

I think you didn't read the requests in this thread properly. It's not about having it "now", it about being able to gear several jobs on a single character.

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So not right now but much, much faster than 4.5 months at a time right?

Yeah, you're right.

In other MMOs there isn't even as much a gear grind on one character, but trying to gear multiple is quite literally impossible due to the fact that when you are fully geared in Myth gear, a new set of Myth gear will be released which will most likely use Myth tomes again as a lot of MMOs do.

This is one of my major gripes with the game. They give you the illusion of being able to play multiple classes, but you really can't.

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Originally Posted by Doval

My point was just to say that if the intention is to be able to switch classes, is defeats the purpose to make it impossible to gear multiple jobs with the same end game gear in any reasonable amount of time.
I understand that much of the content now may be able to be completed with full DL and relic weap, but coral tower isn't out yet, how can you say that it will be just as completable with current gear when you haven't seen the content yet? Why would they release additional end game content that didn't add additional challenge to the game? Seems like that argument has some holes in it.



(cont)

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Because Crystal Tower was and is intended to be a content bridge between WP/AK and Coil. It is a DF 24 man content that is supposed to be easy but still an interesting trip down memory lane while gearing up for coil. This waa all stated by Yoshi P himself so please kindly point out these holes you speak of.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

You have not once added anything meaningful to any discussion or said anything intelligent in all of your 2086 posts. Baffling, really.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ory-job-system.
Wrong, it would NOT take just as much time on a single character, explained why here.

Don't bother responding to me, just learn the actual problem and form an opinion knowing all the facts about HUGE issue.

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yes it would...... DL gear can be warn by more then one class -.- so you would only need to buy one, instead of 2 (if you did a second character)

I finished all of Hoplite, all of the Darklight tanking accessories, and I only had WAR up until that point. I completed my Bravura and then decided I'd finish my PLD.

I realized that when I dinged LV50 PLD that I only had 300 myth tomes to allot to continue progressing my tanks beyond Darklight gear, and that I'd have to pick which Job I wanted to spend tomes on for Relic +1.

So even though I leveled Paladin up - I'm not playing it because I already finished my Bravura and already have some of iL90 gear on my Warrior.

If I had leveled an alternative character as a Paladin - I could farm Myth on PLD, then swap to my other character and farm Myth for my WAR and I'd be able to tank for both of the groups doing Coil in my Free Company. Rather than them having to push someone into a tank role for the sake of one small portion of content which really sucks. We're given the option to level and play all the Jobs and fill all the roles in a party - why then does the game limit this functionality by locking you out of Coil, and making you prioritize which Job you're going to use with a Myth cap? It's counter-intuitive when compared with the rest of the game up that point where the more cross classed abilities and knowledge of other roles benefited you greatly.

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

Yeah, you're right.

In other MMOs there isn't even as much a gear grind on one character, but trying to gear multiple is quite literally impossible due to the fact that when you are fully geared in Myth gear, a new set of Myth gear will be released.

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<Citation Needed>

We have almost a year before 2.2 or 2.3 comes out which is even guessing that SE will be adding Myth gear in addition to turn 6+ Coil gear since they never stated if AF2 is direct drop or a token gear set.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

<Citation Needed>

We have almost a year before 2.2 or 2.3 comes out which is even guessing that SE will be adding Myth gear in addition to turn 6+ Coil gear since they never stated if AF2 is direct drop or a token gear set.

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Every 3 months= Patch roughly 7 months till 2.3

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

Yeah, you're right.

In other MMOs there isn't even as much a gear grind on one character, but trying to gear multiple is quite literally impossible due to the fact that when you are fully geared in Myth gear, a new set of Myth gear will be released which will most likely use Myth tomes again as a lot of MMOs do.

This is one of my major gripes with the game. They give you the illusion of being able to play multiple classes, but you really can't.

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You can. You just can't get the best gear for all of them in a week.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...Violin-Gif.gif

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Originally Posted by Azazela

You get another class pigeon holed only into one role and very limited abilities and choices.

In most other MMOs if a class doesnt come with multispecs, it at least has talent choices.

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Originally Posted by vigilante

why would square want to make another exact same mmorpg as 100 others out there if you dont like it leave and stop complaining geez

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"Dont have any kind of customization because WoW has customization!!111"

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Originally Posted by BlueMage

"Dont have any kind of customization because WoW has customization!!111"

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WoW had customizations?

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

You can. You just can't get the best gear for all of them in a week.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...Violin-Gif.gif

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Or a year for that matter, but apparently a year is too fast.

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

Or a year for that matter, but apparently a year is too fast.

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You make it sound like this gear is going to be the only thing worth working toward in a year. :rolleyes: