Why Monks need a Buff + Petition!

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Originally Posted by savant07

Or you just don't have a monk that can keep up or has a reasonable skill level as your top bards.


Melee was designed to do the most DPS but also takes the most risk and skill. That is why making it easier for them should result it less DPS. That is how the whole thing was designed. If you all want it easier, why not just make one "DPS CLASS" and everyone can roll that and have the same skill and well, pretty much same everything cause you know, equality.

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typical QQ response Dragoons CANNOT out DPS a bard even in ideal situations... but that doesn't make then underpowered they are stupid easy to play. Melee know going into a melee class you cannot stand in stupid... However they still QQ that they cannot DPS without standing in stupid. If you do not like your class re-roll... if you are too bad of a player to make your class perform just quit playing.

and BTW in coil ranged have to look out for as much if not more crap then melee does... So the risk thing is a bull excuse and every legit player knows it.

Eckoh, you know you're arguing with the one person on the board mysteriously convinced that BRD is low DPS, right? He's been peddling this idea forever now. . .

Had a MNK in AK and a MNK in Titan hard relic mnk really well geared and must say he was amazing. His dps was off the chart. I have had mnk from legacy at 50 but could never "really" get a good rotation barring DK > TSnake > SP adding in IR+ToD when available. its a flank attack. Once GL3 is up i 2x ID from the rear then repeat keeping GL3 active.

Any advice to a up and rising MNK? Really like the job regardless of status just dont want to play it cause i simply dont feel confident in it. Dragging the group down either just makes me feel worse hence why i currently stick to SMN which is my main (and love it) but learning the intricacies of MNK would be very good and make me have options :)

GL is the only nuisance, everything else is fine. As GL is a stacking buff, let it drop off one by one instead of all 3 at once.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Eckoh, you know you're arguing with the one person on the board mysteriously convinced that BRD is low DPS, right? He's been peddling this idea forever now. . .

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As opposed to people convinced that Bard is TOP DPS?

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Originally Posted by vanZilch

GL is the only nuisance, everything else is fine. As GL is a stacking buff, let it drop off one by one instead of all 3 at once.

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Noob question, but how does one go from losing all 3 in one motion or losing them 1 by 1? certain actions reset GL?

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Originally Posted by KaosPrimeZero

Noob question, but how does one go from losing all 3 in one motion or losing them 1 by 1? certain actions reset GL?

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Timer on them runs out. I believe it's a 10s upkeep and basically any AoE avoidance will cause you to lose the 3 stacks. Building them back up is where the DPS loss comes in.

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Originally Posted by 16bitBounty

Timer on them runs out. I believe it's a 10s upkeep and basically any AoE avoidance will cause you to lose the 3 stacks. Building them back up is where the DPS loss comes in.

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This is not accurate. It's a 12s timer. Also, very few AoEs will force you to lose stacks. The exception is when you try to fit in 5 or 6 gcds into your rotation. If you are just doing 3-4, almost every Aoe gives you enough breathing room to run in and out in time.

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Originally Posted by Eckoh

typical QQ response Dragoons CANNOT out DPS a bard even in ideal situations... but that doesn't make then underpowered they are stupid easy to play. Melee know going into a melee class you cannot stand in stupid... However they still QQ that they cannot DPS without standing in stupid. If you do not like your class re-roll... if you are too bad of a player to make your class perform just quit playing.

and BTW in coil ranged have to look out for as much if not more crap then melee does... So the risk thing is a bull excuse and every legit player knows it.

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Again, you probably just have shitty monks in your FC or group. Find a good monk and he/she will outdps you by a huge margin.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Eckoh, you know you're arguing with the one person on the board mysteriously convinced that BRD is low DPS, right? He's been peddling this idea forever now. . .

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Bards are low dps. Good lord, people thinking otherwise are just ignorant or plain stupid to think otherwise. Find good players of each DPS class and do some actual testing rather than actually claiming they are good dps just because the forum QQ is strong on a specific class.

The way I see it monks need a few changes:

Shoulder Tackle should be a 20s Cooldown
GL should be 18-21 second duration
Twin Snakes should probably be 15 second duration

Biggest things, imo, are Bootshine and True Strike. As higher risk skills being the back target ones, they should probably be more worth using.

Bootshine should be changed from a critical when dealt from behind to 200 potency when dealt from behind. As your crit increases, it becomes less and less effective to use bootshine from behind, relative to Dragon Kick. This way bootshine still scales with crit, and would actually be slightly more potent.

True Strike, instead of having a 5% extra chance to crit, Should give a 5% chance to crit buff when dealt from behind. Or alternatively, make it a debuff that increases the chance the monster suffers a crit by 3-5% (Monks could use some raid utility).

They could use a threat drop. They're already riding the threat meters really hard, and they're the only dps class without some threat management aspect available.

And finally, Monks (and dragoons) could use something to make them not so succeptible to AoE. Not sure what, but even putting 10% aoe damage reduction on Fists of Fire or something like that would make a big difference.

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Originally Posted by savant07

Bards are low dps. Good lord, people thinking otherwise are just ignorant or plain stupid to think otherwise. Find good players of each DPS class and do some actual testing rather than actually claiming they are good dps just because the forum QQ is strong on a specific class.

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You. I like you.

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Originally Posted by savant07

Bards are low dps. Good lord, people thinking otherwise are just ignorant or plain stupid to think otherwise.

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You must be trolling.

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Originally Posted by Risbyn

As opposed to people convinced that Bard is TOP DPS?

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I'd disagree just as much with the notion that we're top dps as with the notion that we're low dps.

Bards are high effective dps. They won't outshine the other classes on a target dummy, but in a real fight their mobility and utility are more then enough to compensate for slightly lower base damage.

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Originally Posted by Mitski

You must be trolling.

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No I'm not. People like you are the trolls that think "Oh bards are top DPS cause early parsers say so and well must be true now". People like you are the ones that spread so much misinformation to people. Just because people are claiming it to be doesn't mean it's always true. Go test it yourself before claiming it as truth. Quit being a sheep. Quit being a noob.

Actually, monks dish out one of the highest dps in game. The issue is that anything that cuts them off attacking for to long means grease lightning drops and dps takes a good blow.

Monks need a Quality of Life change if anything so their damage doesn't get destroyed in fights where you aren't able to keep up a steady rotation. Without that buff dropping, they easily would be one of the top dps in game.

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Originally Posted by savant07

No I'm not. People like you are the trolls that think "Oh bards are top DPS cause early parsers say so and well must be true now". People like you are the ones that spread so much misinformation to people. Just because people are claiming it to be doesn't mean it's always true. Go test it yourself before claiming it as truth. Quit being a sheep. Quit being a noob.

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Do you even read what other people post before you respond? I never said bards were top dps. I said they have high effective dps, which is true.

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Originally Posted by Mitski

Do you even read what other people post before you respond? I never said bards were top dps. I said they have high effective dps, which is true.

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Effective DPS is dependent on each encounter. The only encounter where your "effective" dps of other classes might go down is Titan. Any fight in Coil, every class can pretty much output almost max if not max DPS. There aren't a lot of anti melee mechanics there and not a lot of Titan-esque abilities. So no, they are not HIGH effective DPS, they are low outside of Titan.

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Originally Posted by Purutzil

Actually, monks dish out one of the highest dps in game. The issue is that anything that cuts them off attacking for to long means grease lightning drops and dps takes a good blow.

Monks need a Quality of Life change if anything so their damage doesn't get destroyed in fights where you aren't able to keep up a steady rotation. Without that buff dropping, they easily would be one of the top dps in game.

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You would need a DPS nerf if that were the case. You are balanced around having the difficulty of having to keep greased lightning up and having a difficult rotation. It's like asking if you can have your DoTs last 100 seconds cause that'd make your rotations easier.

Atleast make GL to 15 seconds, cuz 12 seconds look weird :/

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Originally Posted by Calypsx

You're also forgetting the fact that they have to be in melee range and have less defense than a dragoon

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Thats not quite accurate. Dragoons have the lowest magical defense, which is the only dmg you should realistically get hit by (AOEs), physical defense is almost never a factor, unless you are tanking.

So dragoons are actually the dps class most likely to die.

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

Thats not quite accurate. Dragoons have the lowest magical defense, which is the only dmg you should realistically get hit by (AOEs), physical defense is almost never a factor, unless you are tanking.

So dragoons are actually the dps class most likely to die.

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Ah, thanks for the fact, wasn't aware. Don't they have a little more hp to make up for that though? I've seen Dragoons survive some things that wipe others out. Most likely their buff skills.

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Originally Posted by Calypsx

Ah, thanks for the fact, wasn't aware. Don't they have a little more hp to make up for that though? I've seen Dragoons survive some things that wipe others out. Most likely their buff skills.

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They have a little bit more HP thats true (around 200-300 at lvl 50, depending on gear) but the mag defense is significantly lower when you compare their dark light gear.

At endgame, a dragoons mag defense is roughly 50% of his phys defense.

Monks are awesome.

Change GL to at least 20s and I might consider playing my Monk again lol.

Nothing wrong with monks. Just l2p.

Only thing what would be awesome would longer duration to our GL but thats minor. Actually we might be too powerfull with 100% uptime ^^

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Originally Posted by savant07

Effective DPS is dependent on each encounter. The only encounter where your "effective" dps of other classes might go down is Titan. Any fight in Coil, every class can pretty much output almost max if not max DPS. There aren't a lot of anti melee mechanics there and not a lot of Titan-esque abilities. So no, they are not HIGH effective DPS, they are low outside of Titan.

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Titan is not the only fight affected by mobility, and you completely ignored the indirect (but significant) increase in party damage from the bard utility skills.

Rage and rant as much as you want, but bards will still be good :)

monks don't need a buff at all they are well balanced and can out dps most classes, you will notice a massive difference at 50 with decent gear.
You can't really ask them to change the game just because you feel under powered whilst leveling, wait until you finish the class and get the af gear before moaning.

I agree. Monk's skills need to be rebalanced, because now some skills are useless or unbalanced

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Originally Posted by Onyxys

I agree. Monk's skills need to be rebalanced, because now some skills are useless or unbalanced

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Completely agree, some skill like remove target good buffer is useless at moment. I hope they can set some end game boss need remove their buffer. The big issue for monk is they are not super by any means, they just ok, so demand in group is very low.

When you sit in your sever lfg spam area, you will not see a single group LF MNK. Which is best evidence to tell us MNK need buffer. we could see lots of group looking for bard or ranged DPS. This is balance issue.

Maybe there is an issue with melee vs ranged but honestly MNK is great. I have both MNK and DRG at 50 and my MNK puts my DRG to shame in most instances. The job starts out pretty meh but skyrockets in late-end game.

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

Maybe there is an issue with melee vs ranged but honestly MNK is great. I have both MNK and DRG at 50 and my MNK puts my DRG to shame in most instances. The job starts out pretty meh but skyrockets in late-end game.

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it show that the jobs is not balanced, the jobs must be interesting all along... that not the case with the monk until you get the 3 stack of GL you are the worst dps of the game, until you reach the end game most of the boss mechanic are not monk friendly.

I just took my first crack at coil I really don't like monk so much anymore because how they are end game it very sad that the one class I wanted does not preform well so I on the bard wagon till they fix this.

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Originally Posted by raikage

I just took my first crack at coil I really don't like monk so much anymore because how they are end game it very sad that the one class I wanted does not preform well so I on the bard wagon till they fix this.

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You're joking, right? The only way Bahamut's Coil could be more monk-friendly is if it were a linear hallway full of unpolished boots.

I can see where people are having problems with Monk DPS because they don't push the limit or understand how to move around a target as a melee DPS. I had another Monk DPS who had an issue with Titan because he'd play it safe. He couldn't get the timing down on keeping his Greased Lightning stacks up. So his DPS fell behind. All I can say is that Monk DPS is highly dependent on your skill as a player and your understanding of the mechanics of a fight. Before blaming the class, look to yourself first. Can you honestly say you play to the best of your abilities? Let's say the Monk class gets a slight DPS buff. Your average player DPS will increase, but those of us that push the Monk class to the limit will get a HUGE boost over everyone else. I will tell you right now, if Monk gets a DPS buff, no one in my Free Company will ever match me on DPS. Ever. Is that fair?

Perhaps it's time some of you look to other classes/jobs because Monk is not for you.

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Originally Posted by raikage

I just took my first crack at coil I really don't like monk so much anymore because how they are end game it very sad that the one class I wanted does not preform well so I on the bard wagon till they fix this.

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Except it does perform exceptionally well in Coil. It was only your first crack at Coil, don't be so quick to judge. You're just only getting used to the fight mechanics in there.

Well you're right it was my first crack at it. I just hate to lose lol :mad: but I will try again if you go in with a group in fail can you go in with another is that lock in?

Titan fight is face roll for me as a monk I guess cause I have the fight down I think my real problem is I don't have an FC do help me do things I solo everything so I need to find another 9 solid players.