Bots are now teleporting from mob to mob.

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Originally Posted by Rin_Kuroi

I don't think bots are making the majority of the gil. I believe most of it comes from hacked accounts.

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Some yes, but the majority im sure its from botting or using those hacked accoutns to craft things. If you watch the AH as i have, and farm as i have, say, fleece and direwebs.. you would see that theres a direct correlation. The teleporting bots are obvioustly farming said items and oversaturating the market. Ive watched it and did nothing but farm fleece and direweb for 5 days (After work) And ive seen the same bots in the same places for days. God knows how much they have made in the ah, i wouldnt doubt they have crafting bots too at this point.

Not only that, when i put up some fleece its almost immediately undercut by someone, (usually by the same 3 retainers) i highly doubt a player is standing there 24/7 just to undercut me.

Given the sheer amount of resources they have, the above would not be a hard thing for them to do, they own the AH essentially.

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Originally Posted by ArcheustheWise

Thanks for a response. But may i suggest that perhaps you all are going about it the wrong way? Getting rid of the gil first is the wrong way as it still doesnt eliminate the source of the problem, whats making them gil? The teleporting bots are.

Where are the "Red GMs" of old? i heard they were in 1.0. All it would take is for them to monitor the spots that ive seen teleporters weekly at and insta ban em. Well, it would be a step in the right direction. Hell ill do it gor ya for 8 hrs as a job if ya paid me for it lol. 15/hr. But seriously... im not sure as to why this cant be dealt with in a fast manner.

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While I too would like for them to just GO AWAY, I would assume that they may be choosing to hold off on some of the actions of banning to watch them. You can't figure out what bug they are exploiting until you catch them exploiting the hole. It is the same with malware (and this is a strand down that line), you might have a full blown compromise on your system, rootkit and everything, but if you don't figure out how it got there in the first place (e.g. a flaw in Adobe Flash), then you cannot fix the root of the problem. It is the same with the teleporting for example. They have exploited a flaw in the code that makes them jump around, until you see them actually exploit the flaw you can't fix the hole.

Regarding the "it shouldn't be there in the first place" argument, I feel I should point out that a game of this scale has millions of lines of code, across multiple platforms (The engine will likely be one code, then a scripting system on top of that, and then a database to hold everything, potentially some kind of interface between the two (database and engine)). It is just massive, and there are bound to be flaws.

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Originally Posted by Discordia

There is this one leve in Quarry Mill that is:

-Repeatable (up to 3 times I think) and costs just one leve allowance for it
-Can reward up to 11 diremite webs per round of required item turn-ins
-Do not require Diremite Webs to complete

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The leve I did for webs is called Pantser Corps or something like that. It asks for initiate's slops which you can make yourself or buy (at a loss) from a NPC in Buscaroon's Druthers right next to Quarrymill. You might get unlucky and get a string of shard rewards but more often than not it gives you 11 Diremite webs.

The slops only use cotton so if you want to take the time to auto-craft a bunch of mats you can amass a lot of Diremite webs easily.

When the bots farm all fleece spots and have them locked < Excalibur is like this. They control it. Prices are currently 65-80k a stack.

If I need Fleece to make a FC member an item. Sry SE, I pull the Goobue upto the botter before the sheep respawn, botter gets nailed with Paralyze and starts attacking the Goobue so I can actually claim the mobs. A real player would move.

I am not buying Fleece from Gilsellers, so I use this method since you are investigating and one step behind. I at least report them as well.

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Originally Posted by ChickensEvil

Regarding the "it shouldn't be there in the first place" argument, I feel I should point out that a game of this scale has millions of lines of code, across multiple platforms (The engine will likely be one code, then a scripting system on top of that, and then a database to hold everything, potentially some kind of interface between the two (database and engine)). It is just massive, and there are bound to be flaws.

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Not exactly sure where you got the "it shouldn't be there in the first place" from my post xD I said nothing of the sort. Hell i personally knew this was going to happen, it happens en every mmo nowdays.

Would be nice if hackers could be banned on the spot for cheating.

These bots also doing something where their characters are hiding below the ground. You only see their names above but their characters are "hidden", sometimes you can't even see their full name because it's so below ground. If you see some, report them, mostly happening on mining bots. RMTs must die!! Destroy all the bots!!

An easier solution would be to sell those "needed items" via NPCs, and your prices goes down as you rank up in Grand Company and finish main mission or something like that. Add new bonus of GC "lower the prices" where it lower prices at NPC for 15%. When in demand items are easily accessible, it kills these bots. Give players easier access to items that are in demand, effectively kill some resources of how these bots generating income.

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Originally Posted by Liavain_Axon

I wonder if Yoshi and Co. have read The Laws of Online World Design.

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That was a good read! Thanks.

Is this really a new thing? I remember seeing bots in wow teleporting all the time. Level 1 gold runners would create a new orc then immediately teleport to the org bank. Level ones would teleport into the air to spell out goldseller websites.

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Originally Posted by Yapper

Is this really a new thing? I remember seeing bots in wow teleporting all the time. Level 1 gold runners would create a new orc then immediately teleport to the org bank. Level ones would teleport into the air to spell out goldseller websites.

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correct
it seems SE released this game without taking any MANDATORY steps that all other mmos have been forced to undertake in the past, like they though they would be immune or something

There are freaking players who bots as well. Using traditional botting methods. Please don't ban the innocent this time SE.

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Originally Posted by LordSideKicks

There are freaking players who bots as well. Using traditional botting methods. Please don't ban the innocent this time SE.

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I'm interested to know what player botting methods are not a bannable offense. Maybe we are using different definition of 'bot'.

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Originally Posted by Zakalwe

I'm interested to know what player botting methods are not a bannable offense. Maybe we are using different definition of 'bot'.

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BOT= Botanist, lol!




>I BOT too, it's a honest to gods class that shouldn't be confused with 3rd party programs which turns your character to a "robot".

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Originally Posted by PSxpert2011

BOT= Botanist, lol!




>I BOT too, it's a honest to gods class that shouldn't be confused with 3rd party programs which turns your character to a "robot".

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LOL.

Fell for that one! Thanks for the good laugh.

At this point I think SE just supports this kind of behavior and doesn't care. :/

I've seen bots on balmung that have been going at it for a couple of weeks now.

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

We have a firm understanding of the current RMT (real money traders)/cheating situation

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It's far from just RMT.

I've reported three bots in a well known end-game FC on one server that were still there days later.

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Originally Posted by PSxpert2011

BOT= Botanist, lol!

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Actually no, BTN = Botanist, so the joke fails.

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

It's far from just RMT.

I've reported three bots in a well known end-game FC on one server that were still there days later.

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Most MMOs do mass-bans of bots once they've been able to hotfix whatever code loophole they're using. You generally won't get bot accounts banned just a couple days after you point them out.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

When the bots farm all fleece spots and have them locked < Excalibur is like this. They control it.

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I don't buy anything that I actively know is being done through botting.

In another game, they throw in "hard" mobs in between the normal ones. These ones have 100x the HP and hit harder. This screws with bots because bots are just using auto-targeting macros.

Here's a tip to players who don't want to be reported for "botting", if someone else comes into the area and attacks the same mobs you're killing. Let them. If it's a hunting quest (there's anywhere from 1 to I believe 5 in most quests), they only need to damage the mob enough for it to count. If I'm doing a hunting quest and I see a level 50 player standing in one spot killing the mobs as they respawn, I'm reporting them for botting if they don't acknowledge that I'm attacking the same mobs. People after the hunting quest will go away once they get what they need.

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Originally Posted by Nialle

Most MMOs do mass-bans of bots once they've been able to hotfix whatever code loophole they're using. You generally won't get bot accounts banned just a couple days after you point them out.

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I've been seeing the exact same group of bots farming in the same spot for several weeks now. Every game that takes the research over action route is ignoring that the economy and game is going to hell while they figure out how they are doing it.

There's only so many compromised accounts and leveling new ones takes time. They're only doing it because its profitable.

Can you not just move positioning data server side rather than making the same mistake that was in FFXI and storing positioning data on the client then accepting any old data from the client allowing people to speed and pos hack easily, would stop the positioning lag too...

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

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Here's a tip to players who don't want to be reported for "botting", if someone else comes into the area and attacks the same mobs you're killing. Let them.
...

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I think that's a rather unsafe way to prevent being reported or detecting a bot.
I saw one yesterday that let me attack their mobs, he actually went the other way once I had attacked. I didn't think he was a bot until I noticed he was a bit too fast, so I traded him right while he was fighting, no reaction, though he stopped attacking due to the trade, the trade stayed open until he died >.<, certain proof he really wasn't there xD. I actually did that to both people there, just traded them while they were getting attacks, none of them cancelled the trade, both died, one was still laying there dead an hour later, the other insta-poofed when he died.

So I suggest if you think someone is botting, trade them, preferably while they are engaged in fighting a monster.

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Originally Posted by Ihm

Can you not just move positioning data server side rather than making the same mistake that was in FFXI and storing positioning data on the client then accepting any old data from the client allowing people to speed and pos hack easily, would stop the positioning lag too...

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Not sure how they didn't see this comming, also, so much positioning lag... tired of dying to aoe marks when im half map away from it.. X(

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

Hello,

We have a firm understanding of the current RMT (real money traders)/cheating situation, and while we are working to implement countermeasures, it is true that we are sometimes reacting one step behind. catch cheaters. We were able to catch some large scale RMT groups due to this.

While we do not respond to your RMT reports, all of the information we receive is reviewed by the development team and STF and everyone on the team is extremely appreciative of your efforts. We apologize for the frustrations and inconveniences caused by the RMT and cheaters, and we will be working hard to catch them.
.

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I don't believe you whatsoever. (except for the part where you said you don't respond to our RMT reports)

We've reported the same bots for weeks and they are still there

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Originally Posted by ArcheustheWise

Thanks for a response. But may i suggest that perhaps you all are going about it the wrong way? Getting rid of the gil first is the wrong way as it still doesnt eliminate the source of the problem, whats making them gil? The teleporting bots are.

Where are the "Red GMs" of old? i heard they were in 1.0. All it would take is for them to monitor the spots that ive seen teleporters weekly at and insta ban em. Well, it would be a step in the right direction. Hell ill do it gor ya for 8 hrs as a job if ya paid me for it lol. 15/hr. But seriously... im not sure as to why this cant be dealt with in a fast manner.

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I will do this for free when I'm playing :)

SE not working fast enough...is everyone in japan too busy working at the fukushima plant? thanks for killing the world japan...now try not to kill final fantasy...k thanks.

Ya it wouldn't' be too hard to employ a handful of GMs with the soul purpose of teleporting over to several key hotspots. Make sure they can be invisible, and teleport from city to city to ban the shouters, and teleport to all major mining points, and insure they have the debug options to turn the terrain to wire-frame so they can see botters hiding behind the terrain.

There are several key hotspots they should be able to patrol frequently. honostly one person could prob do this per server, or even one person per a few servers. I'm with Archeus on this one, it should be fairly simple for this to happen, esp sense the botters themselves are teleporting, i'm sure it wouldn't be a stretch for the devs to make gms that can teleport anywhere at anytime. Why its taking so long for them to come up with a solution is beyond me. It's like all of there resources are being put in other areas they deemed more important. Right now the economy is being trashed, and due to botters screwing said market up, this has caused a chain reaction leading to the issue of players being suspended and losing there gil. I know several people that would be like "what the crap?? all my hard earned gil for a month, ugg /unsub" I know myself if i had worried about rushing at the beginning and getting tons of gil, and then have it all wiped, would have to question if i really want to continue, if this is how they are going to do things. Point is you would think they would have this at the very top of their priority because of how it directly effects players, and their willingness to stick around.

also I'm aware RMT activity will always be a issue, but waiting on players reporting a potential RMT activity, and then possibly acting on it a week+ down the road, is most certainly not the way to handle it(im assuming here, but its prob not far off). active GMs that are teleporting around the world checking the frequently reported hotspots, is the best way to go. It might not be the cheapest, but it would be the fastest way. you could identify them, and immidiately suspend them, then pass on a report to the STF to have it looked into furthor. This way there is immediate impact on the RMT activity.

Really if they want a alternative to the problem, albeit it still costly dev wise, turn enemy drops into what DoL is like. #1 everyone has there own mobs on their screen, or #2, make it so when mob is dead, and you contributed enough to dmg, you now have a mining/harvesting minigame where you click on the materials you want from the dead body of the mob. Both would clearly effect the market, weither its good or bad depends on the player, whos selling and whos buying, but seriously those solutions would also work to curb some of this RMT activity. If RMT can't monopolize a mob, they have less a chance of monopolize market. Clearly it wont prevent them from buying everything off AH to price fix, but it would be better imo.

While it isn't botting, whatever spell summmoners cast that puts a purple bubble over spawn points to automatically claim targets, is just as bad as botting,.. this is a unfair advantage and needs to be addressed

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Originally Posted by ArcheustheWise

Not exactly sure where you got the "it shouldn't be there in the first place" from my post xD I said nothing of the sort. Hell i personally knew this was going to happen, it happens en every mmo nowdays.

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Sorry, that part wasn't directed toward you, was in response to the dev post stating that people have been saying bugs shouldn't be there in the first place, and we agree... or whatever. Sorry if it came off as me attacking you, was not intended :)

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Originally Posted by FrancisBean

While it isn't botting, whatever spell summmoners cast that puts a purple bubble over spawn points to automatically claim targets, is just as bad as botting,.. this is a unfair advantage and needs to be addressed

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Ummm you do realize that those ticks work the same as DoTs do, every 3 seconds server side. So you potentially have up to 3 seconds to hit the mob before their AOE hits it.
1: Click mob as he spawns
2: press instant cast whatever keybind
3: ???
4: Profit

I don't really see the issue here, they MIGHT beat you at best half the time, but I will take those odds over the 300ms in game lag trying to compete with someone else using instant cast as soon as they see the mob spawn. So please, SMN (and other's with similar AOE), continue to do this, since I like these chances.

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Originally Posted by Ihm

Can you not just move positioning data server side

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My guess is that they did it because client side pos data means much less stress on server as well as a more fluid experience for the player (no stutter stepping in ff). Likely more attributed to the former, as they could still fix the issue by filtering the client data on the server but that, again, would lead to stress. Whether that should be a realistic issue is another story. It's like SE made this amazing game and bottlenecked it because for some reason they wanted to host the thing on a bunch of toasters.

SE has made it apparent that they outright refuse to hire GMs for any issue. Instead they are taking up (imo overly) ambitious projects such as the misguided chat filter and the abomination that is rmtpwner.

"Why did you ban thousands of accounts?"
"Because RMTpwner banned them."
"How do you know RMTpwner works?"
"Because it banned thousands of accounts."

I don't understand is why SE or their task force does not go straight to the root of the issue and get websites shutdown. I'm not sure what they would have to do to get a site shutdown but that to me seems like the best course of action.

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Originally Posted by FrancisBean

While it isn't botting, whatever spell summmoners cast that puts a purple bubble over spawn points to automatically claim targets, is just as bad as botting,.. this is a unfair advantage and needs to be addressed

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There are several other classes which get this sort of ability. Testing against a stationary auto-attack bot I found on diremites this ability was not sufficient in claiming the mobs before the bot. Given this fact, the cast time, and the small area covered by this spell there are very few areas where this or any groundbased AoE would be able to claim more than one spawn location. Even if maintained in that spawn location, the bot still claimed the spawn about 30% of the time as well as everything else nearby. In short, this ability has absolutely no advantage over just quickly targeting and using an instant attack, and can't even be used to shut out a bot.

The bigger concern is probably with the fact of how quickly a bot can target and use an ability compared to a standard player. The oddities of the targeting system prevent being able to consistently target things in front of you fast enough for you to get a skill off before a bot. If the bot is stationary, their reactions are almost instant.

Maybe they should just ban all IPs originating in China, most of these gilsellers and their bots would disappear overnight. Some may call it extreme, but when a particular group abuses and exploits in a manner that rapes the EULA, then they have no right to be allowed to use the software IMO.

I think SE would rather rape their legitimate customers than ban China ips. That makes WAY more sense then banning tele bots, also bots "gsfsf sfsfdsf" standing at mog stations waiting to deliver gil, and bots standing in crowded areas shouting their nonsense FIVE days in a row.

I kinda miss 1.0 RMTs. They weren't shouting. And never did I see some guy teleporting from mob to mob.

2.0 rmt is just horrible.

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Originally Posted by valhalla

...also bots "gsfsf sfsfdsf" standing at mog stations waiting to deliver gil, and bots standing in crowded areas shouting their nonsense FIVE days in a row.

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Saw some bot out mailing gil today. Obvious guy with random name and basic conjurer gear. Saw two bots farming mobs today near Spirithold, teleporting around underground and shooting them with arrows through the ground (beyond mob range). Report 'em, but they never get banned. I just end up seeing them weeks later at the retainer bell, collecting more gil to distribute...

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

Actually no, BTN = Botanist, so the joke fails.

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Damn, better luck next time then. @_____@;

Yeah it's great that you "know what you're doing" and all when it comes to RMT. Really shows when you indiscriminately reset players gil because they "made too much in a certain amount of time" and then refused to actually do a proper investigation to back up your moves. I'm afraid to sell things on the market ward now because I don't want the witch hunters to swoop down from on high and indiscriminately burn me at the stake because I got lucky and HQ'ed some armor.

They need to make the cap larger for blacklisting. I'm at 120/200 and it's all rmts that I have been blisting and reporting. I dread the day I hit the 200 cap and I can't blist anymore of those annnoying, pita /tell spamming *insert phrases of choice here*