Perhaps the reason the self heal factor blows is because most newer players don't know how WAR was designed to work as a tank. After the jobs were introduced in 1.0 WAR was created with the intention of multiple target tanking in mind, and it was extremely strong at multi-target tanking, however it suffered greatly when it came to single target tanking due to the way it's abilities were designed (IE: More targets = better chances to heal more back and increase defense, Less Targets = Vice Versa).Quote:
Originally Posted by Rios-Drakoon
Now I'm not saying there aren't adjustments due, developers rarely ever get the balance just right on the first try. I was just wanting to point this out because I don't think most grasp how WAR's design was intended to work, and I think that's alot of the reason most folks are having difficulty playing the job.
If it makes you feel better though, I have been in a few successful Titan runs with WAR both as a tank and DPS.
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09-22-2013, 03:27 PMSwordCoheir
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09-22-2013, 04:05 PMFaction
Game developers often have absolutely no idea how their game works in practice. News at 11.
All that this means is that Warriors will be buffed in 2 months instead of 1. It's simple stubbornness. No dev has ever been better at their own game than the collective body of their entire playerbase and the notion that Yoshi-P thinks the devs are is laughable.
There is literally nothing that Warriors have that gives them significant healing against multiple targets. If that's how WAR's design was intended to work, they sure forgot to actually implement anything that indicates that at all. You must also be a mind-reading savant.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordCoheir
What was WAR designed for? Please tell us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephirah
Whatever your answer is, guess what? It will be wrong, because currently WAR doesn't do anything better than PAL. The problem isn't the design, it's the numbers being way too low on pretty much everything. -
09-22-2013, 05:50 PMSephirahWAR is a tank that excels in tanking multiple targets and dealing damage. This debate has come up in several threads, and many warriors feel there is no point in them doing damage if they are there to tank. Well, sorry guys, but it isn't something that can just be ignored, more damage means higher health regen, and those both mean less defense. If a WAR could take a hit as well as a PLD, there would be no point in being a PLD. The two classes work TOGETHER, in this CO-OP game. Nobody is saying WAR can't main tank, but it will always be harder than a PLD (similar to how it's harder, but not impossible for a PLD to tank multiple targets), which again comes back to why they say if you want to show off you should be a WAR, because it takes more skill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Faction
You're so right, I don't know what game I've been playing. So all the paladins you know have 7k hp, can aoe attack, regen health, and add some dps to the fight, right? -_-Quote:
Originally Posted by Faction
Edit: And I didn't realize it was you Faction, didn't your last thread about this end with everyone (warriors included) telling you to role a pld because you want mitigation through defense? -
09-22-2013, 07:29 PMFactionNope. Paladin damage is on par with Warrior damage. You have this really cool move called Sword Oath you should look into. As far as damage dealt while tanking, it's completely negligible for both classes. Warriors doing good damage is a myth invented by people who think about the game more than they actually play it. For example, Gladiators who just hit max level who are operating entirely off of theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephirah
Two Paladins can work together in this CO-OP game. They also happen to work together better than WAR+PAL does.Quote:
The two classes work TOGETHER, in this CO-OP game.
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09-22-2013, 07:30 PMFactionWhat does this even mean? "Having 7k hp" isn't doing something better. Doing something better would be, you know, actually DOING SOMETHING BETTER. None of what you listed is actually doing something better. Paladins are functionally better main tanks, functionally better off tanks, and functionally better add tanks. The only way that Warrior could possibly be a better add tank is if Paladins had any trouble holding aoe threat, but they DON'T.Quote:
So all the paladins you know have 7k hp, can aoe attack, regen health, and add some dps to the fight, right? -_-
You keep saying this, except it's just a lie. Paladins hold aoe threat with absolutely zero problems. You could just sit there spamming flash only and hold aoe threat if you want. As an added bonus, you won't die because you're a paladin.Quote:
(similar to how it's harder, but not impossible for a PLD to tank multiple targets)
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09-22-2013, 07:39 PMIpkonfig
Aww did WARs just get "Working as intended" ? Guess I should keep bringing up PLD and only bring out the relic'd warrior when we need some add control.. CM runs!!! XD
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09-22-2013, 08:25 PMSixteen
This response is about what I expected. Already rerolled, at least my warrior is useful for speed running CM to get DL for my black mage. When a class starts out the way warriors have it is a very bad sign as it point to devs not knowing what they want to do with it. It will probably go into stages of being overbuffed to being overnerfed, while paladins will remain stable and viable.
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09-22-2013, 08:45 PMSephirahUsing that logic how can you say PLD is better simply because they take less damage, they aren't "doing" anything. The point is each class has their own strengths and weaknesses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Faction
Ok sure, you go ahead and try that. Use nothing but flash and see how long you hold threat. Just to play devil's advocate, EVEN IF THIS WAS TRUE... Warriors can use Flash too, so that isn't something PLD has over WAR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Faction
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09-22-2013, 08:45 PMholajudging from your gear, you dont know anything beyond ifritQuote:
Originally Posted by Sephirah
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09-22-2013, 08:46 PMholain CM i hold threat without any problem at all with flash and circle of scornQuote:
Originally Posted by Sephirah