If you are a [JOB] without [Ability], you are holding back your team at endgame

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Originally Posted by Jynxii

This made me laugh. It is only an issue because people are making it an issue. As posted in another thread, a WHM has completed all HM Primals without having Swiftcast, and I personally know one that has done it too. I also know a lot of DPS that haven't fully optimized their characters, and are either clearing, or cleared the HM Primals. If we were talking Bahamut's Coil it would be a different story, but some how I doubt we are.

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It's still true enough though. I've experienced it before. Because I had never tanked certain fights before, I was called scrub for not knowing the ins and outs of that specific part of the encounter. As a WHM, it's good to know how the tanking aspects work, but you don't have to have actually tanked it to make yourself a better player. A lot of people are taking this way too far as you said. It's quite sad really.

I'd rather have someone who plays their job well that's missing a few abilities that aren't 100% necessary over someone who has everything they need, but doesn't know how to work their job properly. There's a big difference.

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Originally Posted by RavenL

My BLM can't use cure but CAN use Physick which is strange since they are basically the same healing spell.

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Cure gives a 15% chance for your next Cure II to be free! :D

People need to chill out a bit. This game is pretty new, and honestly, I'm not sure you need swiftcast right now to finish endgame. But it's useful, and I'll be looking to pick it up once I get WHM to 50, botany to 20 so I can get weaver to 20 so I can socket materia. Then I need to probably get a craft up to 50 for my relic weapon.

After that, yeah I can swing down and get Swiftcast. Makes sense.

Seriously, people are not trying to piss others off by not having it. But some people have jobs, family and friends that at some time they have to go out and do stuff with. We will all get there, but until then, chill the f out mehn.

I knew the minute they added cross-class skills that min-maxers would become a very big issue. Expecting everyone to have everything is just ridiculous.

elitists are in every MMO, if you feel you don't need to skills they demand, then don't group with them.

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Originally Posted by RowanLauron

I've experienced it before. Because I had never tanked certain fights before, I was called scrub for not knowing the ins and outs of that specific part of the encounter..

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Yeah, I think most of us have been there at one point or another (although a lot of people forget that quickly), which is partially why it is funny, and as you mentioned, pretty much devolves to in the long run. I had a 'bad' MRD/WAR tank early in my healing career, however I had no understanding of how MRD/WAR tanks, so I really couldn't establish if he was actually bad or if that is just how MRD/WAR tanks were at that particular point in time. The worst part is, since FATE grinding is the fastest/best way to level after you main class, lots of people will level their tank/healers purely outside of dungeons, so the skill gap, or difference in understanding is likely to widen, thus even players using the specific class will lack understanding, much less other roles who sort of 'get it'.

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Originally Posted by Inosaska

I knew the minute they added cross-class skills that min-maxers would become a very big issue. Expecting everyone to have everything is just ridiculous.

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Min/Maxing is fine, the problem is expecting others to, especially if you haven't done so yourself. If you have time to be able to Min/Max in the first 2 weeks, then good for you. If you want to run with Min/Max'ers, you won't find a lot of them in Duty Finder, so find yourself an FC or LS, although this will actually require you to have min/max'ed yourself. Hell, I found myself a nice little group, who are far from Min/Max'ed, but are definitely clearing content. Again, the necessity just isn't there at the moment. Sure it makes things more 'efficient', but so does not standing in fire or getting hit by predictable mechanics. The amount of times you'll see the same person get hit by the same mechanic can be pretty unbelievable some times.

I am torn about this thread. On one side I am glad this discussion was brought up so that many who do not know about cross-class skills can learn to play more effectively. On the other hand, I don't see the need for the tone of this thread. What is to gain by wording it so negatively? It seems like these forums are so negative all the time...

Its gimped subjobs all over again :D

Swiftcast a MUST.. (I have yet to get thaum26 myself. but on the top of my list)

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Originally Posted by coffeepotz

I am torn about this thread.

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It started in the other thread where a DPS player accused WHM of holding groups back at end game by not levelling up THM to 26 and getting Swiftcast, which incidentally has been proven as a fallacy. Incidentally, the same person who essentially demanded that WHMs be min/max'ed by now failed to min/max himself, but put sole responsibility on WHM (and by extension, SCH) for runs not being as efficient or smooth as they should be, citing the lack of swiftcasted raises as the reason groups were failing.

This is probably why there is so much negativity laden throughout the thread, and you're right, there is definitely some decent cross-class skill info within.

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Originally Posted by Inosaska

I knew the minute they added cross-class skills that min-maxers would become a very big issue. Expecting everyone to have everything is just ridiculous.

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Let's not get carried away with the min-maxers. We're talking about jobs here. Jobs have a limited range of cross-class abilities they can pull from that probably aren't higher than level 34 on the other class. It's far from "everything" and farther from "ridiculous". If you are doing piddly nonsense content, it is perhaps unreasonable to expect that others have a strong rounded out job. If you are doing something that qualifies as "end game" at whatever point in time we're in (because the bar moves over time), then yes, it is perfectly reasonable to expect that the people you are playing with are doing all they can to contribute by having the appropriate skill-set, which in the context of this game (and the FF MMO franchises as a whole) means a dabbling here and there to round yourself out. FFXI did this also with sub-jobs and it's how the FF MMO franchises have decided to play it. You start with your base role, and then round it out by cherry picking stuff from elsewhere. Picking a few cherries is not the same as digging up the whole tree, in effort or time.