For all you warrior tanks out there... end game we are not viable.

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Originally Posted by Griffeth

What you are seeing in this thread is a discussion of how 20% damage mitigation can make up for 10 to 15 ilvl's of gear.

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Not necessarily. It's a combination of things. Functionally, if Warriors had 25% increased healing to go along with the 25% increase HP, it's kind of a wash. I think it probably has to do more with game mechanics and content design along with the inherent mathematical disadvantage that Warriors have. *Edit* while the inherent 20% damage mitigation of the Paladin allows them to do much more.

I fully expect a fully geared endgame WAR to have 9999 HP after food and other buffs. I'm in level 70 gear and I reach over 8k.

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Originally Posted by Coramac

What I'm seeing in this thread is people saying "Well, if the Warrior had better gear..."

It's really an irrelevant point. If Paladins are able to do it as the OP states, then it is pretty damning for a Warrior to be unable to do it with gear being equal. With superior gear, why would you change anything? A Paladin would simply become even better while the Warrior becomes acceptable. If the OP's assertion is correct, why would you ever want a Warrior to tank these and is that not the definition of imbalance?

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I don't think it's irrelevant. How many parties are clearing Turn 1?

Let's take this paladin linked below:
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...racter/499073/

He's a Paladin that cleared Turn 1. He pushed his gear to the limit of what's available with an iLv90 weapon, with HQ crafted iLv70 gear socketed the hell out with materia to make up for the gear difference. Coupled with Shield Oath. I think once the OP is comparably geared and not doing as well, then I would get depressed, but not before then.

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Originally Posted by Griffeth

Anilogas is this in the ilvl 70 gear for the ilvl 90 content? Isnt there supposed to be something in between the hard modes and binding coil?

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Yes, yes there is and hence the part nobody notices here.
Before the Binding Coils of Bahamut is supposed to be the Crystal Tower, content that was moved on to the next patch because they couldn't fine-tune it's difficulty just yet. Right now people are doing the Binding Coils of Bahamut while SEVERELY undergeared.

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Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba

I don't think it's irrelevant. How many parties are clearing Turn 1?

Let's take this paladin linked below:
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...racter/499073/

He's a Paladin that cleared Turn 1. He pushed his gear to the limit of what's available with an iLv90 weapon, with HQ crafted iLv70 gear socketed the hell out with materia to make up for the gear difference. Coupled with Shield Oath. I think once the OP is comparably geared and not doing as well, then I would get depressed, but not before then.

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It's interesting that you point out BG. If you notice by their roster they run zero WARs. So yeah, the OP's gear isn't as good as the link you posted, but I'm not sure it follows that the OP will be able to do it on his war once he has the same gear.

This isent new, anyone with a brain saw this coming along time ago, and only apologists tried to defend WAR

WARs also have 25% Max HP boost from Defiance, Defiance at 5 stacks also increases heals by 15%, WAR also have access to Convalescence that increases healing and restorative skills by 20%, Second Wind which restores 15% of Max HP and Mantra that increases heals to self and nearby party members by 20%

All of those restorative skills works in favor with WAR's high max HP pool.

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Originally Posted by ReiszRie

WARs also have 25% Max HP boost from Defiance, Defiance at 5 stacks also increases heals by 15%, WAR also have access to Convalescence that increases healing and restorative skills by 20%, Second Wind which restores 15% of Max HP and Mantra that increases heals to self and nearby party members by 20%

All of those restorative skills works in favor with WAR's high max HP pool.

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Except that Second Wind has been changed and Mantra 20% can only be used by PUG/MNK. It's 5% on WAR.

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Originally Posted by ReiszRie

All of those restorative skills works in favor with WAR's high max HP pool.

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Actually, they don't. The 20% damage reduction that PAL gets increases the effective healing on them by 25% (since it's the same healing acting upon only 80% of the incoming damage). WARs get an increase of 15% explicit. Anything that provides hp recovery benefits a PAL more than a WAR because of that disparity.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

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we shouldn't look purely on a damage mitigation perspective because that is clearly picking on the strengths of PLD

on overall survivability, WAR are equivalent to PLDs due to their 25% increase in Max HP and 15% increase in HP heals whereas PLD has 20% damage reduction but 0% increase in HP heals



I was interested in finding out if WAR really lacks survivability when compared to PLD (purely on Defiance vs Shield oath)

so I whipped up a simple calculation -

Shield Oath - 20% Damage Reduction 20% Damage Output reduction
Defiance - 25% Max HP Increase 25% Damage Output Reduction and 3% Increase in Healing Spells Effectiveness per stack

Boss #1 - 400 Damage per hit per second over 25 seconds
Healer #1 - 800 base heals every 2.5s

WAR #1 - 5000 base HP (without Defiance with Vitality 3)
PLD #1 - 5000 base HP (with Vitality 3)

assuming both WAR & PLD has the same DEF and stat rating

WAR #1 - 6250 HP (with Defiance)
PLD #1 - 5000 HP

5 seconds - Damage sustained = 2000

WAR #1 (Defiance 1 stacks) - 6250-2000 = 4250 balance Hp without heals
WAR #1 (Defiance 1 stacks) - 6250-2000=4250 / 1250+800(0 stack)+824(1 stack)=5874 balance HP
* heals at 800 + 3% effectiveness from 1 stacks Defiance = 824

PLD #1 (Shield Oath) - 5000-(2000-20%) = 3400 balance HP without heals
PLD #1 (Shield Oath) - 5000-(2000-20%) = 3400 / 3400+800+800 = 5000 balance HP
* heals at 800

25 seconds - Damage sustained = 10,000

WAR #1 (Defiance 5 stacks) - 6250-10000 = -3750 balance Hp without heals
WAR #1 (Defiance 5 stacks) - 6250-10000 = -3750 /

-3750+800(0 stack)+824(1 stack)+824(1 stack)+848(2 stack)+848(2 stack)+872(3 stack)+872(3 stack)+896(4 stack)+896(4 stack)+920(5 stack)=8600 healed over 25s

-3750+8600= 4850 Balance HP

** If WAR already has 5 stacks, every heal would be 920 and in total, 9200HP would have been healed resulting in the balance HP of 5450 HP

PLD#1 (Shield Oath) - 5000-(10000-20%) = -3000 balance HP without heals
PLD#1 (Shield Oath) - 5000-(10000-20%) = -3000 /
-3000+800+800+800+800+800+800+800+800+800+800 = 8000HP healed over 25s
-3000+8000= 5000 Balance HP



as a conclusion, WAR's Defiance grants similar survivability as Shield Oath and Defiance certainly isn't "inferior"