Let's talk Monks - A Discussion For The DPS Freaks

The reason you open with Dragon Kick instead of bootshine is because automatic crit only happens after going through to Oppo stance after a coreul stance move. Thus you can not open with it because it's a weaker opening potency than dragon kick.

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Originally Posted by zipzo

Unfortunately, simple copping out of the positional requirements is not something I'm opting to do. Since Bootshine, True Strike, and Snap Punch are all inherently more effective from behind I find it a bold as hell argument that not adhering to the positions yields an equatable amount of DPS compared to doing so.

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I hope i didn't misunderstood that but i don't use Bootshine or true strike. I just stand besides the Mob and use Dragon Kick -> Twin Snakes -> Demolish or Snap Punch (keeping demolish up seems worth it). Since doing that, i am way more free to watch boss attacks and easily dodge them (Titan HM as an example) and yet, i don't seem to lose dps. I hope the parsers get better and better to see, if the parser lies to me or if it's just not worth it, using the 2 attacks from behind at all.

Hope that Snap Punch bit was a typo :P

Anyways, my general rotation has been:

D. Kick > T. Snakes > S. Punch > P. Balance > S. Punch > Demo > T.Snakes > S. Punch until P. Balance wears off > Touch > DK > TS > SP

When Demolish has worn off I put it back up using the DK > TS > Demo combo.

The only time I ever use Bootshine and True Strike is when I can squeeze it in without losing DK debuff. That gives me 3 combos I basically use:

1) D. Kick > T. Snakes > S. Punch
2) D. Kick > T. Snakes > Dem
3) Bootshine > T. Strike > Demo

I rarely, very rarely do Bootshine > T. Strike > S. Punch

I like Bootshine, but a critical DK (which hits like a truck with BFB and IR popped) does far more damage. If my buffs are up, I'd rather gamble on the DK. Bootshine definitely has a place though, especially if you are someone that does not like the gamble on RNG or has a lower crit rate.

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Originally Posted by ilJumperMT

I'm not sure myself it makes no sense but its what parsers are showing :/

I dont have one but when I dropped parsers i went up to 170 dps on ifrit hm for example


Edit: Dragon Kick from side does more damage then Bootshine (no stances). You should open the fight with Dragon Kick

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Depending on which parser you use, you won't get all DoTs calculated.

ffxiv-app, for example, is bugged on Demolish/any DoT skill that doesn't have initial damage. Fracture and ToD parse fine.

You are correct in terms of the very first opener, yes, before we have opo stance.

Perfect Balance in order to be pushed to maximum effectiveness (in my opinion) needs to popped as soon as you hit Greased Lightning III + All buffs/debuffs accounted for. You max out its usage that way. Snap Punch seems easily to be the go-to spam skill for the duration of Perfect Balance, as it keeps Greased Lightning maxed so you don't have to worry about and it has the highest potency (assuming you're on the flank).

What has everyone been doing in light of Determination VS Skill Speed Reduction? I've noticed most of our gear comes down to a decision between these two stats, so I'm curious what everyone has been rolling with. Given the Monks "consistent" nature of damage I have assumed that Determination trumps Skill Speed but have no redeeming evidence of this.

Skill Speed is such a difficult stat to measure its worth because it requires lots of dummy smacking for several minutes using either stat to gauge a window of difference.

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Originally Posted by Usotsuki

I hope i didn't misunderstood that but i don't use Bootshine or true strike. I just stand besides the Mob and use Dragon Kick -> Twin Snakes -> Demolish or Snap Punch (keeping demolish up seems worth it). Since doing that, i am way more free to watch boss attacks and easily dodge them (Titan HM as an example) and yet, i don't seem to lose dps. I hope the parsers get better and better to see, if the parser lies to me or if it's just not worth it, using the 2 attacks from behind at all.

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I actually made a flub mentioning Snap Punch also, correcting myself. Snap Punch is more effective on the flank. That was my bad.

PB reaches max effectiveness when you need to hit GL3 quickly: Titan's Heart, Garuda's clones, any time where you are KO/OOR/Stun, etc. It's 3m cooldown and shouldn't be burned for Snap spam unless you're fighting something simple and static, like Tonberry King.

My complete arbitrary gearing priority is:
Highest STR
DET+Crit
DET+SPD
Crit+SPD
DET+ACC
Crit+ACC

At least until we've quantitatively determined the benefits of SPD. All I can say is, it only feels like SPD matters when a SCH is running haste.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

Depending on which parser you use, you won't get all DoTs calculated.

ffxiv-app, for example, is bugged on Demolish/any DoT skill that doesn't have initial damage. Fracture and ToD parse fine.

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http://ffxivlogrep.com/summary/ registers dot I think.

and lol at OP trying to make guide then flame me for saying open with Dragon Kick over Bootshine due to the fact Bootshine only crits in Opo-opo stance...

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Originally Posted by zipzo

considering they share the same GCD as every single other action with a GCD on your hot bar, so I'm curious why you're implying somewhat that any of the GCDs differ at all?

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I guess you mean early? I just think its best to focus on the core moves before people start adding cross skills like fracture and ID(which has his uses in trash). I was saying other GCD cause its kind of pointless to use Fracture or ID before you get a full Lightning stack because that is number 1 over anything else. Too many people are worried about other cross skills before everything is ironed out.

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Originally Posted by MelianDoriath

1) D. Kick > T. Snakes > S. Punch
2) D. Kick > T. Snakes > Dem
3) Bootshine > T. Strike > Demo

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The thing is if you're around in the back for the Bootshine why not us True Strike if you're not using any cross abilities? There is no reason not to unless its a questionable boss. You get 10 more potency and 5% more crit.

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Originally Posted by ilJumperMT

http://ffxivlogrep.com/summary/ registers dot I think.

and lol at OP trying to make guide then flame me for saying open with Dragon Kick over Bootshine due to the fact Bootshine only crits in Opo-opo stance...

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I was mostly referring to replacing Bootshine completely with Dragon Kick. The opener of each cycle. For the very first opener yes, Dragon Kick seems to have the advantage. I might have read your post wrong. No need to be snotty. Also I never said this was a guide, it's more like a rant lol.

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Originally Posted by LiuKang

Theoretically DoTs should add more DPS as their potency over the duration is more than any other Monk attack.

Demolish = 240 total potency
Touch of Death = 270 total potency
Fracture = 220 total potency

However, doing many many AK speed runs I find that bosses die noticeably faster when I use a simple rotation (DK - Twin Snakes - Snap Punch) as opposed to keeping DoTs rolling.

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If may just be perception.
Not using DoTs means you don't need to watch your DoTs as closely and there's much less effort and time goes faster.
Would be interesting if you timed the boss fights/checked total time and see if it's actually quicker. (Possibly your party members got gear upgrades or getting better at their rotations?)