Square, Don't let the Community ruin this game

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

I have noticed the higher I am getting in levels the worse the community is getting :(. I really enjoyed dungeons back when I was lower and now they are weird. I don't understand what happened to all the cool guys I played with, has it changed since launch?
I prefer to learn in the dungeon myself and I like getting better and being a better WHM but a lot of higher level dungeons have been really unpleasant lately :(.

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I wouldn't be surprised if quite a number of the more relaxed players are just playing with friends or chilling and leveling lower level classes or crafting or doing something other than running high level dungeons through dutyfinder at this point, honestly.

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Originally Posted by Dannythm

The problem is that, to an extent, the way of the current speed running could be considered an exploit, and exploits are banneable offenses, as it's not using the intended mechanics to progress through the instance.

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Training mobs without abusing unintended game mechanics, such as bugging their pathing or similar, is not considered an exploit. The mechanic behaves exactly the same as anywhere else in the game.

This might not be what they want people to do, and as such they're left with the option to make changes to it, but before they just straight up force you to mindlessly kill an endless supply of cannon fodder, they should probably ask themselves why people decide to do this in the first place.

There simply is no incentive. No challenge, no reward, just a pointless time sink. As far as I'm concerned there are a few healthy ways they could deal with this. The first being to have fewer, but much more challenging trash mobs. Another option would be to almost remove trash entirely and over tune bosses for additional challenge and time sink. Or finally, what is probably the most likely to happen is to have trash mobs some sort of reward associated with it.

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Originally Posted by Dannythm

So there should be 4 modes for instances:

• Normal.
• Time attack normal.
• Hard.
• Time attack hard.

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Completely agree. Plus, I would not choose a time attack mode at any point. I hate being rushed. Frankly I think the people who don't choose time attack modes would be more the type of people I want to play with anyway - the 'let's have an experience' type of people.

Also - I really dislike the assumption that all the end-game arsehats are Legacy. I started with a new char, and if it wasn't for more crafting addiction (^^) I'd have probably reached cap with my first class back in beta, or at least early release. The main quest line hands out exp like candy so it's not that hard.

Anyway back to the point of the OP. I choose to play the game for enjoyment, not for the epeen. It would be great to be able to choose a dungeon mode that reflects that. Not by necessarily choosing 'easy' mode - I like a challenge. But by being able to choose a relaxed pace.

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Originally Posted by Menubrea

As far as I'm concerned there are a few healthy ways they could deal with this. The first being to have fewer, but much more challenging trash mobs. Another option would be to almost remove trash entirely and over tune bosses for additional challenge and time sink. Or finally, what is probably the most likely to happen is to have trash mobs some sort of reward associated with it.

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Or make it so you have to have beaten the full dungeon at first, but after having beaten the full dungeon, then on repeat attempts you can opt for a 'bosses only' option. This could also possibly remove those people who push for speedruns from the 'let's take our time'/newb pool.

Im not going to lie my first run in the keep as a fresh 50 war i tell the pt im new to this dungeon but im willing to learn, 3 healers later and not 1 mob even pulled finally i get a healer whos willing to tell me and show me what to do with this so called speed run tactic. Honestly i havent even bothered trying to tank since then, really not worth the hassle at this point. I would like to enjoy the dungeons and the great job the development team has done but at this point i dont think thats really going to happen unless they kill off the speed run. If thats a good idea for the game or not im not sure but for me at least it totally kills the point of doing these dungeons.

I dislike speed runs, and was really happy that they were (supposedly) not going to be a thing in 2.0. And I definitely think new and old players alike should work together and be cooperative.

But I do not believe that "1.0 players vs. new players" is the heart of the problem here. MMO players taking shortcuts and going for maximum reward for minimum effort are hardly new things that only the "natives" would be doing. I am quite sure that if this was a brand new game, this same thing would happen with AK. Perhaps 1.0 players were more likely to think of it first because of the speed run mechanics in some 1.0 content, or simply because there is a disproportionately high amount of them in the pool of level 50's.

IMHO, if SE does not intend a dungeon to be done via speed runs, then they need to make it so a dungeon cannot be done via speed runs. Which they apparently failed to do with AK. :/

Haven't read it all. But it is not only Legacy people doing this. People who are lucky enough to have an understanding group will then turn around and do only speed runs as well. I suggest shouting on your server, and advertise that you are NOT doing speed runs. I have a feeling there would be a lot of people interested, since so many people don't even get a chance.

But yes. This community is terrible. I'm hoping most of the LoWbies (jerks) will leave when it comes time to when they will have to start paying money to troll/be a butt in game.

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Originally Posted by Shyluv

I'm hoping most of the LoWbies (jerks) will leave when it comes time to when they will have to start paying money to troll/be a butt in game.

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Sometimes people are jerks because they have paid the sub money and therefore develop an entitlement/expectation attitude towards the game. So, I'm not confident your dream will be realised.

Nevertheless I share it. ^^

Came in here to say to OP - You are not alone this crap is happening to everyone. Most of us have just stopped using DF because of the idiots that we encounter.

It's too late, OP - if you seen the Beta forums and 1.0 forums near the final save you'd know it's far too late.

There was a lot of arguing between new players and legacy players even in beta, so this was kind of expected. I'm a new player, but I'm willing to learn from older players. I have a good understanding of party roles because of playing other games, but every game is slightly different.

I've been running with my friends, who are legacy and 1.0 players. A lot of them also played ffxi. They are nice and helpful, and love to show me things about the game...so i know not all legacy players are jerks.

I'm taking my time leveling stuff too, because i want to learn the game mechanics and my main class/job really well before doing major dungeons like the one you guys are talking about.